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Resident Evil 20th Anniversary

Innsmouth

Sleeping DMC Fan
Supporter 2014
That's just your own personal misinterpretation.
That's not what tank controls even meant.
Tank controls + walk and shoot is possible as seen in the first Silent Hill and Dino Crisis.
those two always hanged together in RE, and both TEW and RE6 were lacking them, which still didn't make them same thing.
By nitpicking.
You lack any valid points, so you pad your posts with nitpicks.
I counted obvious differences between two games. IF you aren't able to understand them, than you actually need to play those games before saying they are same.
Somebody here didn't do their research on RE's development history.

Co-op was considered in the first game but was cancelled because the PlayStation Link cable function didn't satisfy Mikami at the time.
Co-op in RE was touched upon again during 1999, where Mikami feels that it can only work via network.
So canned idea that NEVER was touched again outside of pure MP mode should be somehow be indication that RE5 would had coop under Mikami? lol xD Seriously? Sorry, all your logic built on empty assumptions that doesnt have any ground in real world.
 

Goldsickle

Well-known Member
those two always hanged together in RE,
I never mentioned tank controls, full stop.
Don't insert your personal misinterpretation of things to confuse the discussion.

I counted obvious differences between two games.
Which was completely unnecessary, showing that you're good at missing points.
My point is that even if you called Mikami back to direct a new RE game, it wouldn't be the same anymore.

So canned idea that NEVER was touched again outside of pure MP mode should be somehow be indication that RE5 would had coop under Mikami?
Mikami's Project Zwei was also conceived as a co-op horror game, before it shifted into The Evil Within, so once again, I proved you wrong when you said "nothing suggested that Mikami wanted co-op".
 

Innsmouth

Sleeping DMC Fan
Supporter 2014
Which was completely unnecessary, showing that you're good at missing points.
My point is that even if you called Mikami back to direct a new RE game, it wouldn't be the same anymore.
Except I named why TEH was more of RE4 than RE6 except for controls. Once again just because you pretend you don't understand wont change facts.

Mikami's Project Zwei was also conceived as a co-op horror game, before it shifted into The Evil Within, so once again, I proved you wrong when you said "nothing suggested that Mikami wanted co-op".
LOL Project Zwei was originally coop action game that was canned even before it was announced. But before you continue your empty assumption I just quote Mikami himself: “I think co-op and horror are two very separate experiences,” says Mikami. “but I don’t think the era of co-op will interfere with single-player horror. Horror games are most scary when you’re by yourself.” Mikami was never interested in making coop horror game to begin with. He always considered coop to lessen scares. As such you may continue with your made-up stories, but facts is, he himself completely contradicted your soo called "logic"
 

berto

I Saw the Devil
Moderator
Yes. I am seriously telling you that.
I even provided interviews as sources.
And I said as a producer, not director.
Yeah, but you said 'outside of 1 he had no hand in it.' Been a producer, an advisor, and a director implies that you are a force in the development. You think when he talks people just ignore what he says?

The real question is do you seriously believe that there is a literal, physical "how to make Resident Evil" manual in existence, when that's not what Kobayashi meant?
Never even implied such a thing. A manual? It's not a manual, it's a mentality, a way of approaching the themes, of willing to try and alternated how it works. If Mikami hadn't made RE1 the franchise wouldn't exist, even when the exects told him it was garbage, he also shifted the gameplay and focus from zombies and fixed camera angles to over the shoulder gameplay. Those things aren't in manuals, they come from a willingness to trying out new things and it requires the mentality and approach the games are lacking. He saw how the games were more of the same and took aggressive decisions to change the games into new territory. That's not really happening anymore.

Coincidence.
Influence.
Inspiration.
There are a bunch of possibilities but you choose the one that you personally believe, want to force on others but yet cannot prove.
Coincidence? What, seriously? It was a coincidence that the games, even the ones that weren't RE, which had Mikami's name in the credits, had a laundry list of similarities and when he left it was just another coincidence that they went with him... I guess people also stopped been influenced by him once he was gone.

Advise. Not order around.
What do you think happens when the people making the game don't know how to proceed? Do they google it? No, they look to their bosses, the people in charge of the production for advice and guidance. When Shinji Mikami gives you advice you don't just say 'well, it's not like he ordered me to.'

Yes, yes. No need to nitpick.
My point is that if Mikami suddenly admitted playing latter RE games (a little bit or the whole thing) for research in making TEW, I wouldn't be surprised.
I'm not saying it totally happened.
Well, since you like to point out what he said in interviews I'll point to an interview:
It seems like everyone in the world is waiting for Resident Evil 5. Even your mum. Even the Pope. Even The Pope's mum.

But not Shinji Mikami. The creator of the Biohazard/Resident Evil series has already decided that he will not like the game and is planning to avoid it at all costs.

"I won't like it, because it's not going to be the game I would have made," he told Official PlayStation magazine, "It'll just cause me stress if I play it. I think it could be fun for gamers to play it, but not for someone who has developed Resident Evil games.

"If I see anything in Resident Evil 5 that isn't done well, I'll be angry!"

From the interviews and behind-the-scenes info, Mikami gives a lot of freedom to other staff members when he's not the director.
The one time (that I know of) Mikami ever intervened deeply was when he disagreed with Kamiya's idea for RE4 and took three months to talk Kamiya out of it.
And that was only after he told Kamiya that he can do whatever he wants, although it looked like Mikami regretted it for once.
Yes, he gives freedom, which doesn't equate to him sitting in his office counting money.

Why is DMC1 the only one that feels like a RE game? The only one with the atmosphere of one and still has heavy survival horror element?
Why is it that so many of the games with his name on the credits all pretty much have the same plot, progression, and conclusions (Go to isolated location, find opponents, fight last boss, flee location with timer counting down because it's about to explode, fight final boss again, use given weapon to kill off boss, flee location via vehicle and make it out )? That is the description to RE1+Remake, RE2, RE4, DMC1, and Dino Crisis. Actually, those are only the ones I've played, it's not that unlikely that it's also repeated on other games with his name on them. Even TEW did the whole bazooka to kill final boss thing.

There are just too many things present in too many places where the only commonality is his name for it to be just coincidental. I won't say he and he alone, that would be a disservice to the people that made the games with him, but to dismiss him entirely would be just as much a disservice to him and the work he did in each project. His level of involvement might vary but it is present.
 

Goldsickle

Well-known Member
Except I named why TEH was more of RE4 than RE6 except for controls.
And you also confused what tank controls meant, so I can't really take your comparisons seriously.

Mikami was never interested in making coop horror game to begin with.
What you posted does not prove that he was "never" interested in co-op "to begin".
He has shown interest and consideration to the idea from time to time, so you're proven wrong.

Been a producer, an advisor, and a director implies that you are a force in the development. You think when he talks people just ignore what he says?
What do you think happens when the people making the game don't know how to proceed?
Stop playing around with possibilities and uncertainty.

Actually show me direct quotes from design documents, data books or interviews on where he doesn't just sit back as a producer or advisor.
All you're doing right now is forcing your assumptions on me regarding what Mikami does.

laundry list of similarities
Which is nothing more than your own assumptions, via superficial observation.

Whatever "list" you have in mind, if I show them to Mikami and ask him "are these all your doing?", will he 100% say "yes, these are all the things I did"?

Even if you're a teeny bit unsure, then your "list" are just random coincidences.

I will only listen to official statements from the staff, not your own superficial observations.

Well, since you like to point out what he said in interviews I'll point to an interview:
It totally depends if he directs the game.
If he merely produces, then it's just the same old "do whatever you want while I count the money".

Yes, he gives freedom, which doesn't equate to him sitting in his office counting money.
If we're talking about producers in general, then the job description involves making certain decisions in game development but we're specifically talking about Mikami right now:

"In my opinion, producer's main job is calculate money. Not game development. I'm the kind of person to tell the producer "leave the game development to us and just count money." So, I didn't tell them a lot."

Yeah, I know.
You're going to tell me "that only applies to RE2" but I don't see any sources from you where he gets heavily involved for other games he produced or advised.

Why is DMC1 the only one that feels like a RE game?
Because it was originally an RE game?
If you're trying to imply "it feels like a Mikami-involved game because Mikami was involved somehow", then as I said, whatever you "felt" from DMC1 is just a coincidence.
Mikami pretty much left everything to Kamiya.
 

Innsmouth

Sleeping DMC Fan
Supporter 2014
And you also confused what tank controls meant, so I can't really take your comparisons seriously.
so basically you admit that you hide your head in sand because your arguments are empty. clear on that.

He has shown interest and consideration to the idea from time to time, so you're proven wrong.
Not for horror games, as I've already proven with his own words, proving that A) you lied about project zwei being horror game to begin with. B) you once again hid your head in sand because you ran out of arguments. C) you have definitive reading problems or simply ignores that I sad that he NEVER DIRECTED coop game in his entire life, meaning original coop concepts were faulty to him and he canned them before they even shown in concepts. As such none of your arguments hold any valid point, and you simply playing dodge ball and grasping at straws since you can't prove anything, knowing you're wrong from a get go.
 
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Goldsickle

Well-known Member
so basically you admit that you hide your head in sand because your arguments are empty.
So you project your own incompetence on others when you're out of things to say.
You misread, misinterpret and walk back on your original arguments, so it's not like I'm talking to a wall, I'm talking to an illiterate word-mincer.

Not for horror games,
He considered co-op for early builds of Resident Evil, so yes, for horror games.
His stance in 2014 doesn't automatically erase the consideration and attempts at co-op for Resident Evil in the past.

you lied about project zwei being horror game to begin with.
I didn't lie, you're just ignorant.

"Our latest project's codename is "Zwei" and it is a survival horror game."


I sad that he NEVER DIRECTED coop game in his entire life,
No, your actual quotes are:

"nothing suggests Mikami ever wanted coop."

"Mikami was never interested in making coop horror game to begin with"


So I proved you wrong by showing that there was interest, consideration and attempts.
You're just shifting and changing you the way you word it to make it sound like you were never wrong.

meaning original coop concepts were faulty to him and he canned them before they even shown in concepts.
More crass assumptions.
There was an actual playable co-op build for the first RE.
It wasn't canned for being "faulty" or him disliking it.
As I said, it was cancelled because Mikami wasn't satisfied with the technology at the time.
 

Innsmouth

Sleeping DMC Fan
Supporter 2014
So you project your own incompetence on others when you're out of things to say.
You misread, misinterpret and walk back on your original arguments, so it's not like I'm talking to a wall, I'm talking to an illiterate word-mincer.
So you try to continue your dodge play? ok :D please do so. Its basically proves that you lack any solid argument on your side.

He considered co-op for early builds of Resident Evil, so yes, for horror games.
His stance in 2014 doesn't automatically erase the consideration and attempts at co-op for Resident Evil in the past.
Yep it does :D Whole argument was about "but under Mikami RE would have coop in RE5 and 6 as well". Nope it doesnt. No made up argument you can come up with can change fact that Mikami confirmed that coop doesnt fit into pure SH.
I didn't lie, you're just ignorant.

"Our latest project's codename is "Zwei" and it is a survival horror game."
Look who's being ignorant :D thats alread TEW build. Mikami confirmed that by the time concept and website was shown, his coop idea was dead in the water.
No, your actual quotes are:

"nothing suggests Mikami ever wanted coop."

"Mikami was never interested in making coop horror game to begin with"


So I proved you wrong by showing that there was interest, consideration and attempts.
You're just shifting and changing you the way you word it to make it sound like you were never wrong.
You can repeat "I proved you wrong" as much as you want. Truth is on my side and its not difference in opinion. If he ever was interested in coop he would have done it. In Remake, in TEW, in Vanquish. HE shown no interest in doing so. ITs simple fact. If its beyond your understanding, once again its not my problem.
More crass assumptions.
There was an actual playable co-op build for the first RE.
It wasn't canned for being "faulty" or him disliking it.
As I said, it was cancelled because Mikami wasn't satisfied with the technology at the time.
Aaaand never returned to Remake that had better engine. Meaning it was faulty.
 

Kaim Argonar

Well-known Member
Wow I can't believe it's been 20 years now. o_O I remember being a little runt when I first played Resident Evil It's kinda sad seeing how I just sort of dropped the series at some point when 5 came around. I remember renting it and not really liking it that much. So I guess that means I hadn't bought a title since RE4. When was that again, like 2005? I haven't been invested in like 11 years!?

Who knows, maybe it's time to go back and play the titles that I did enjoy. Capcom has this habit of tweaking their past titles and re-releasing it like 3 times before making something new (lol) so maybe I'll pick up the RE0 remaster. I remember really liking the original. RE3: Nemesis was always my favorite so I'll look for that too.

My brother actually still plays these games so if I ever need to borrow them, I can ask him. I haven't been interested enough to look into RE6 but considering my brother hates it more than I hated 5, I assume I'm not missing much. He did tell my that Revolations was pretty decent though. Is it true that they made a sequel that's episodic?
 

berto

I Saw the Devil
Moderator
@Goldsickle @Innsmouth
This conversation is officially over. Drop the subject now. Whatever your personal opinions on Mikami are it will have to stay unsolved since there is not progress on either changing your possitions, nor mine, for that matter. As relevant as this subject is to the thread it was derailed it for more than enough time.

And Goldsickle, calling your fellow forum members ignorant and incompetent isn't been civil. If you can't find a way to present your argument without the name calling then let it go.
 

Goldsickle

Well-known Member
So you try to continue your dodge play? ok :D please do so.
No need to get so upset with my snappy response.
This sudden abuse of emoticons is just your way of hiding the fact that you're ****ed.

Whole argument was about
RE5 & RE6 were released at 2009 & 2012, respectively.
That quote was from 2014, after an attempt at co-op with Zwei.
You can only "prove" that he changed his mind about co-op much later but can't prove that he won't really implement co-op in RE5 way back then.

Look who's being ignorant
Look who's dodging.
You clearly said that Zwei wasn't a horror game and even accused me of lying. I proved you wrong.

You can repeat "I proved you wrong" as much as you want.
I proved you wrong.
It's warped logic to think that bringing up some random quote magically erases Mikami's old attempts at co-op in horror games.

Aaaand never returned
He did return to the idea in 1999 and said "it needed a network".
Coincidentally, services like PSN & XBL were made available after he left Capcom.
Work out the rest.

Drop the subject now.
Whatever.

I wasn't kidding about asking Mikami directly, though.
If you're really passionate about this "list" of yours, you can contact him directly via Twitter or something and let me know how it goes.

I also noticed that gun-depiction in RE were more realistic in games directed by Eiichiro Sasaki (Outbreak series & RE6) but I don't want to hastily come to the conclusion that it's purely because of him, since I could be wrong.
You need confirmation for things like that.
 

LordOfDarkness

The Dark Avenger © †
Moderator
Premium Elite
Premium
Supporter 2014
Xen-Omni 2020
@Goldsickle: I believe you were told to drop the subject. However, you've decided to carry it on instead. And I agree with berto, telling people they're ignorant or just ****ed off is not being civil. Your whole attitude here is "You mad bro?", and "You know I'm right". It's pretty silly really, to be honest. It seems like you're unlikely to simply drop things once they've escalated and name-calling becomes involved, so I think a warning should suffice to get some kind of message across.
 
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