Positive Features From DmC To Be Used In DMC5 And Vice Versa

[Chancey289]

Still doesn't make it a reboot. If that were the case every alternate Bond actor would signal reboot. They might not have concrete chronology, though I'm sure Bond fans have one, but my point is it's not a reboot. I know that people have used it as a go to for arguing on behave of reboots everywhere but it's not quite appropriate.

The Bond franchise is a special thing. It's really just kind of like adding on to the legacy of a character. Every Bond movie was also a stand alone story. (except Casino Royale and its sequels actually created a continuity) It doesn't have a chronological order, it doesn't have a continuity. It's just adventures involving this certain character.

 

[berto]

I'm still willing to understand, its not that I have problem with lock on or any mechanic, but I'm still not seeing the exact reason you would need something like that in DmC. In order to focus on one target you always have isolated them in DMC games by manipulating the camera or spamming stinger till the enemy is a corner, and this is something you can do very easily in DmC as well.

Can you give me a specific example/video of what you think you can't do in DmC that you could do in the other DMC games specifically pertaining to lock on? As far I can remember, the lock on in DMC4 was pretty awful, you couldn't even toggle targets while moving. So, you literally had to tap lock on + a direction to focus on an enemy, something you can do in DmC just the same.

Btw, a few things, since DmC is more about air combat, I can't stress enough how much calibur is your lock on move, it will 98% of the time hit the target you want to focus on. Also, you can use aquilas round trip to keep focused on an enemy, once an enemy is round triped, the game gives priority to that enemy if you target an attack in their general direction, so its an aggressive lock on.

You seriously want to keep going with this? You want examples, too?

Ok, here's one. When there are a bunch of enemies on screen I focus on the bigger threats first, for this lets say it's a chainsaw, since they are the most aggressive, and for the sake of argument lets say there are 3 of them. I go and beat the ever loving crap out of but for what ever reason I have to leave him for an instant, maybe I have to dodge another opponent's attack maybe I have to sneeze and and I have to look away for a second, well now the other two are there and in the little time I wasn't looking I no longer know which one I was so close to killing and have to start over again. This happens more often than I want it to and I constantly have to deal with more enemies than I intended because I loose track of the enemies I nearly killed.

This also happens with the harpies, I wail away at one and if for any reason I loose track of it, well, too bad, I'm stuck with the exact same number of them pestering me and all that work went to nil. The lock on is to prioritize enemies, to focus on one. Do I use it in every fight? No, not really, but I use it, just the same. I also don't use stinger on every single enemy but it doesn't mean I want it gone. It's not always necessary but its nice to have the option, and that is what I want, the option.

I don't want to constantly have to use aquila for every occasion where I want to focus on one enemy, sometimes I don't want to use aquila at all. If I have to stunt lock an enemy just to keep track of him then he is no threat, if he is no threat then what's the point. Sure, at first it's great to be all powerful and untouchable but that looses it's appeal fast.

The Bond franchise is a special thing. It's really just kind of like adding on to the legacy of a character. Every Bond movie was also a stand alone story. (except Casino Royale and its sequels actually created a continuity) It doesn't have a chronological order, it doesn't have a continuity. It's just adventures involving this certain character.

Quantum of Solace was also a Fleming story, though that's about it, it's completely unrelated to the film. However, Fleming himself was very much involved with the Bond films till the day he died and yeah, except for Casino Royal and Quantum of Solace, all Bond films are basically a collection of stories about 007 without any specific chronology. I'm sure some day they'll finally talk about that wife of his.

 

[OppressedWriter]

You seriously want to keep going with this? You want examples, too?

Ok, here's one. When there are a bunch of enemies on screen I focus on the bigger threats first, for this lets say it's a chainsaw, since they are the most aggressive, and for the sake of argument lets say there are 3 of them. I go and beat the ever loving crap out of but for what ever reason I have to leave him for an instant, maybe I have to dodge another opponent's attack maybe I have to sneeze and and I have to look away for a second, well now the other two are there and in the little time I wasn't looking I no longer know which one I was so close to killing and have to start over again. This happens more often than I want it to and I constantly have to deal with more enemies than I intended because I loose track of the enemies I nearly killed.

This also happens with the harpies, I wail away at one and if for any reason I loose track of it, well, too bad, I'm stuck with the exact same number of them pestering me and all that work went to nil. The lock on is to prioritize enemies, to focus on one. Do I use it in every fight? No, not really, but I use it, just the same. I also don't use stinger on every single enemy but it doesn't mean I want it gone. It's not always necessary but its nice to have the option, and that is what I want, the option.

I don't want to constantly have to use aquila for every occasion where I want to focus on one enemy, sometimes I don't want to use aquila at all. If I have to stunt lock an enemy just to keep track of him then he is no threat, if he is no threat then what's the point. Sure, at first it's great to be all powerful and untouchable but that looses it's appeal fast.

Okay, well, I hate to be rude, but I"m starting to feel like you haven't really played DmC or given it a real chance, the enemies are designed to work together in DmC, they work like little army formations, so that's why the harpie you're attacking flies away and others move in to protect it. That's by design, having a dedicated lock on wouldn't change that. I mean, I seriously can't wrap my head around some of the stuff you're griping about, because none of it would be magically fixed by having a little reticule and obtrusive clunky lock on.

Also, what the heck do you mean you have to deal with more than enemies than normal? You have played DmC, the full game right? You can't pass a combat area without killing all the enemies, so how the heck would you end up killing more enemies because you happen to lose track of the enemy you did most damage to. It's not like the demons regenerate health, or that you can by pass an area by just killing one or two demons and then running.



A few random things -

- About the enemies, I just don't know how you're losing track of chainsaw guys or any heavier enemy types, because they usually come in pairs and its easy to pick them out of the group, but yeah, first explain to me what you meant when you said I end up killing more enemies than I need to, because that sounds suspect.

- I mentioned the harpies and cherubs earlier, its not any different from the mephistos and swords from DMC4, they are that way because they're supposed to fight as a team, even so, just like DMC4 rainstorm and Shotgun blasts are you friend, once harpies take two shotgun shots they can't fly for a limited amount of time and you should be able to focus and isolate enemies up to a point this way.

-You can use stinger to isolate an enemy, you can use the camera to isolate an enemy, you can use one button flying calibur to single out an enemy, you can use ricoshot instead of aquilas stun lock to keep enemies in place.

- Also, the aquillas (no charge) round trip lasts for .02 seconds, which is the appropriate time you'd need for this hypothetical situation you keep describing, you aquilas (no charge), and then dodge out of that incoming enemy strike, the other enemy is right where you left him.

- You can Demon Dodge and then angel dodge back into place and keep focus on the enemy that you want.

- you can dodge + angel dodge back into place to keep focus on the enemy.

- you can use fireworks to clear the enemies around you and then stinger the enemy in front to keep the heat.

- you can use demon pull + angel pull, if anything Dante is ridiculously powerful in DmC, if you want to single out an enemy you have a bazillion ways to do it and keep the offensive.


Anyway, I await your response.

 

[berto]

Okay, well, I hate to be rude, but I"m starting to feel like you haven't really played DmC or given it a real chance,

Platinumed it on PS3 and 360, clocked a bunch of hours after that, and beat bloody palace twice, how much more of a chance do you want me to give it?

so that's why the harpie you're attacking flies away and others move in to protect it. That's by design, having a dedicated lock on wouldn't change that.

No, but it would change the fact that I lost it since if I had a lock on on it I'd be able to distinguish it from the rest by the mere fact that I'd still have a lock on it. Even if I hadn't lock on it it would also aid my efforts to see which one of the flockers had the least health, but that's an entirely different discussion.

Also, what the heck do you mean you have to deal with more than enemies than normal?

Not 'less than normal' 'more enemies than I intended.' That means that rather than dealing with one less opponent, what with me working so hard to diminish their numbers by one, I still have all of them to content with for a longer period of time, and that is just frustrating. All that effort goes to waste and I end up dealing with more longer.

You have played DmC, the full game right?

Even if I hadn't I would still demand a hard lock-on. Do you really think I'd need to play the whole game just to determine that?

- I mentioned the harpies and cherubs earlier, its not any different from the mephistos and swords from DMC4, they are that way because they're supposed to fight as a team, even so, just like DMC4 rainstorm and Shotgun blasts are you friend, once harpies take two shotgun shots they can't fly for a limited amount of time and you should be able to focus and isolate enemies up to a point this way.

-You can use stinger to isolate an enemy, you can use the camera to isolate an enemy, you can use one button flying calibur to single out an enemy, you can use ricoshot instead of aquilas stun lock to keep enemies in place.

- Also, the aquillas (no charge) round trip lasts for .02 seconds, which is the appropriate time you'd need for this hypothetical situation you keep describing, you aquilas (no charge), and then dodge out of that incoming enemy strike, the other enemy is right where you left him.

- You can Demon Dodge and then angel dodge back into place and keep focus on the enemy that you want.

- you can dodge + angel dodge back into place to keep focus on the enemy.

- you can use fireworks to clear the enemies around you and then stinger the enemy in front to keep the heat.

- you can use demon pull + angel pull, if anything Dante is ridiculously powerful in DmC, if you want to single out an enemy you have a bazillion ways to do it and keep the offensive.


Anyway, I await your response.

This is seriously starting to border on condescending.

If you really have to go to these extremes to defend it then there is something wrong. Why are you so dead set on refusing people something they want as an option. If you don't want it you don't have to use it, so why are you so dead set on denying it to everyone else?

Anyway, I already said, I returned my copy(s) of DmC a long while back and this was part of the reason so you're tips will provably benefit others but not me. I don't plan on owning the game again. Well, maybe when it drops to less than $20.

 

[Demi-fiend]

It's annoying to have to go through this routine everytime you and Chancey, and Uknown are in the same thread. There's always a fight and it never gets better.

So one of you needs to grow a pair and start maturing, or for God sakes, don't any of you bother coming back at all.

I'm done with this thread. It was going so good, till you three f*cked it up.

What did I do? I only just now signed on.

Uknown

From this day forth, I shall be known as --

UUK-NOUN.

 

[Stylish Nero]

Sorry I wasn't paying attention but what happened. Who was fighting this time? There is so much going on in this thread that its hard to keep up.

 

[Demi-fiend]

Sorry I wasn't paying attention but what happened. Who was fighting this time? There is so much going on in this thread that its hard to keep up.

Dragonborn, Demon-Incarnate, and Sir Chancelot.

And I was blamed. I mean, I took part in every other fight before this one, but this one time, I was innocent. 0=)

 

[GF9000000Returns]

DmC to DMC- Parry system, weak spot notices, and good range attacks (Dante's Volcano/Shock should be big as DmC Dante's Stomp)

DMC to DmC- Over the top cutscenes before boss fights and more moves for the Rebellion

 

[Stylish Nero]

DmC to DMC- Parry system, weak spot notices, and good range attacks (Dante's Volcano/Shock should be big as DmC Dante's Stomp)

DMC to DmC- Over the top cutscenes before boss fights and more moves for the Rebellion

DMC already has a parry system called Release and Royal Release.

DMC already has boss weakspots such as hitting Beowulf in his broken eye, the Shadow's core, and some other stuff. Plus if boss fights only comes to exploiting obvious weak spots rather than using full fledged strategies and the skills you've accumulated thus far to come up with your own way to dispatch a boss by analyzing their attack patterns and attacks to find a way to defeat them then you might as well call them "set pieces" rather than a "boss fight".

Plus "weakspot notices"??? Are you referring to big flashing red spots that screams HIT ME then NO. If I want to play a game like that I'll play modern day Mario games. Nothing is worse than a mature game using mechanics and ideas used for kids games to make it easier for kids.

Devil May Cry is a mature game so therefor I at least expect to be treated as a mature player that can handle what the game throws at me rather than the game telling me what to do and making things easier on me. I'm not 5.

 

[OppressedWriter]

If you really have to go to these extremes to defend it then there is something wrong. Why are you so dead set on refusing people something they want as an option. If you don't want it you don't have to use it, so why are you so dead set on denying it to everyone else?

Anyway, I already said, I returned my copy(s) of DmC a long while back and this was part of the reason so you're tips will provably benefit others but not me. I don't plan on owning the game again. Well, maybe when it drops to less than $20.

First of all, those aren't extremes, those are just some of the methods you can utilize that are actual combos and moves to do what you're complaining about. I actually forgot one btw, you can use kabloeey to mark your targets and keep track that way. Also, what it really seems like to me is that you're not really asking for lock on, but more some way to see enemy health while in combat, so I guess if they added some sort enemy health bar ui that would be fine since it wouldn't change the gameplay in any way.

Secondly, the reason I keep defending this is that DmC wants you to dispatch of enemies on the move and constantly dodging and flowing around the battlefield. That's why adding it back would seriously change the flow of combat, it would also cause issues with how certain elements in the game's combat mechanics work, the auto aim + stick input + enemy design is all related, you don't just add lock on because its expected, the game would have to be redesigned with lock on in mind, and that would seriously not be good for hack and slash game like DmC. We all have to agree its not like lock on is something you want in a game, if a game can succeed at giving the player the same control without it that's even better than having an archaic mechanic like that.

And lastly, I really wish I could show you in person the stuff I'm discussing so it wouldn't come off so condescending, because I really think the aiming system in DmC is excellent game design. And I want more people to realize it so other designers take notice of it, it's quite possible the best enemy detection system without a classic lock on, and with a few small tweaks it could be nearly perfect.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

Devil May Cry is a mature game so therefor I at least expect to be treated as a mature player that can handle what the game throws at me rather than the game telling me what to do and making things easier on me. I'm not 5.

I wouldn't call Devil May Cry mature, nore would I call DmC mature either. Both protaganist seem to only think with violence, there's no real maturity in what they do, and both versions of the game are for an age under fifteen and up.

So no, Devil May Cry isn't a very mature game. Compared to No More Heroes, Prototype, Killer is Dead, and even Bayonetta, DMC/DmC is the young preteen trying to be a grown up in my opinion.

 

[V's patron]

I think he meant in terms of gameplay rather than story.

 

[Stylish Nero]

I wouldn't call Devil May Cry mature, nore would I call DmC mature either. Both protaganist seem to only think with violence, there's no real maturity in what they do, and both versions of the game are for an age under fifteen and up.

So no, Devil May Cry isn't a very mature game. Compared to No More Heroes, Prototype, Killer is Dead, and even Bayonetta, DMC/DmC is the young preteen trying to be a grown up in my opinion.

I'm not talking about content or violence or maturity in story but gameplay.

DMC is rated M for Mature so the target audience is 17+ and if its using mechanics quite common in kids games (flashing red weakspots like in modern day Mario games) its quite obvious that the developers think we're kids and need to guide us into what to do instead of letting us handle the challenge.

Its like taking a college test and seeing the questions are sh*t fifth graders can answer. They obviously have no hope in the player to handle a difficult challenge.

Good ole days of challenging gameplay and the developers providing gamers with a decent challenge seems to be fading with every waking minute. Since when did gaming and gamers become so pu$$y whipped?

 

[VOLPE]

I'm not talking about content or violence or maturity in story but gameplay.

DMC is rated M for Mature so the target audience is 17+ and if its using mechanics quite common in kids games (flashing red weakspots like in modern day Mario games) its quite obvious that the developers think we're kids and need to guide us into what to do instead of letting us handle the challenge.

Its like taking a college test and seeing the questions are sh*t fifth graders can answer. They obviously have no hope in the player to handle a difficult challenge.

Good ole days of challenging gameplay and the developers providing gamers with a decent challenge seems to be fading with every waking minute. Since when did gaming and gamers become so pu$$y whipped?

Couldnt agree more

 

[berto]

Went unread.

 

[Demi-fiend]

player's choise.

Dude, I'm sorry. I had to. :lol:

 

[berto]

Dude, I'm sorry. I had to. :lol:

I don't follow.

 

[Demi-fiend]

I don't follow.

Um, 'cause you made this big speech and ended on a typo. To be fair, I would have done the same with anyone else, regardless of who they were.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

I'm not talking about content or violence or maturity in story but gameplay.

DMC is rated M for Mature so the target audience is 17+ and if its using mechanics quite common in kids games (flashing red weakspots like in modern day Mario games) its quite obvious that the developers think we're kids and need to guide us into what to do instead of letting us handle the challenge.

Actually its for fifteen and up. This could be considered possible do to the large anime lore it has in DMC3 and DMC4.

Its like taking a college test and seeing the questions are sh*t fifth graders can answer. They obviously have no hope in the player to handle a difficult challenge.

Well that's sadly how it is for most games these days. I was playing KH a while back and I remember how bone crushingly hard it was just to get pass the first boss. Nowadays games are just too easy, and too short to get through. The last challenging game I actually played was Assasin's Creed 3, and that wasn't so much on difficulty, but more so on the mechanics being faulty.

Good ole days of challenging gameplay and the developers providing gamers with a decent challenge seems to be fading with every waking minute. Since when did gaming and gamers become so pu$$y whipped?

It's business. when a game is too hard only a smaller batch of people will have the patience and dedication to beat it. Developers want more people to play their titles, so they make the games easier in order to get more buyers to buy their games. Yeah, it's unfair, but developers can't only think about the hardcore players. There's also the people who just want to play games to pass the time that are thought about.

But it appears that developers can't seem to just slap an easy mode on their game, and let those players play that if they just want to pass the time. Of course there's the gamers who want to climb to harder levels, but then that would be hardcore level and too much for them. So they would have to tone it down lower for those gamers and the number of gamers would grow after that.

 

[OppressedWriter]

Comments

I made a particular video, watch the harpy battle, having a regular lock on would cause issues, or it would require the game to rebalance certain things so people wouldn't abuse it by centering the camera on a target. One thing they would have to bring back is enemies hitting you off screen, etc, the reason the camera sorta moves around is to let you know an enemy is moving into your periphery so you don't get hit my cheap hits. What your'e asking for is a way to make the game easier, a way that you can just permanently isolate and center the camera on one target even if there's a giant group of enemies attacking you.

Go to 2 minute mark and watch. A lock on simply centers teh camera on a target, you can do this in DmC all the time with the right stick. What difference does having to hold a button to keep it centered make?