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No Lock-On Is Actually Better Than Outdated Lock-On

Shin Muramasa

Metallic Stranger
You're a fan of both Soul Reaver and Darksiders II? You have excellent taste.

Vigil will most likely be bought by Platinum, seeing as how they're actively courting Vigil and all... :/
I have never played Soul Reaver, I just like the voice acting and story. But I really do like the Darksiders series and I am really sad that Vigil Games and it could just disappear. I really hope that some company would buy them. And had I known, I would've bought Darksiders 2 full price or the collector/limited edition.
 

LeoXCV

Single life for life
Running while facing the enemy (as much as the body can turn).
The main reason people have an issue with this so much is because running whilst facing the enemy would seem a bit out of place in DMC (Or equivalent game). Mainly because how the whole input aspect of things like lock-on + Back on analogue + Attack would make the character go into a running animation beforehand if the person doing it isn't quick enough. it's understandable that people would prefer something subtle like the small back-step that DMC does already. Another small point is that some don't want to move too far towards/away from the target whilst doing these inputs, even if it is literally just a few extra inches. It's a small factor but should still be considered for those that require that precision for their style of play. A good example being Royal Release in DMC3/4; if you moved too quickly forward it would throw off your timing which to do Royal Release is integral.

I know some much like you would prefer running and don't really care for these aspects, but as far as DMC is concerned lock-on is more based around quick usage rather than constant, at least that's how I use it effectively; so if you want to run usually just letting go of lock-on is enough and doesn't make the camera go too out of control. I know others can vouch for me on this too.

I would make it so that signature moves aren't lock-on dependent.
I may consider some moves easier to input when lock-on is activated.
This links back partly with what I said above. If the move list is shortened what I said above wouldn't matter since inputs like lock-on + Back on analogue + Attack wouldn't exist. However a lot of people like the fact DMC has a larger move list that is still relatively easy to use, which is why quite a few people don't want to stray from it. If DMC did stray from this method there aren't many other games that use it to go to instead. Maybe if more games that are being made constantly did use this method people wouldn't mind as much if DMC decided to change, but that's not the case right now.


Most the other stuff you answered to is understandable, what I said above are the main points for me. I will only add that I still believe lock-on should have toggle as an option rather than forced since in H&S games I've always preferred non-toggle and so do others. It helps that I use a claw grip style when using a controller so I can use all it's benefits without being hindered for inputs and such; some others actually have a pretty standard style of using a controller yet still prefer a non-toggle lock-on. You would have to ask them specifically why they prefer non-toggle since I wouldn't know completely why they prefer it. I would assume it's mainly because turning lock-on off/on quickly is easier with just one tap rather than two, and the cycling targets could be somewhat slower and more difficult depending on preference.

I think this about covers it to the point I probably can't say much more without repeating myself. Any points I have missed I'm sure you'll bring up.
 

Goldsickle

Well-known Member
The main reason people have an issue with this so much is because running whilst facing the enemy would seem a bit out of place in DMC (Or equivalent game).
Why would it?
The DMC series has been known for it's fast-paced gameplay, so a forced walk mechanic from a "survival horror" game would be more out of place.

Might as well give Dante tank controls, no?

Mainly because how the whole input aspect of things like lock-on + Back on analogue + Attack would make the character go into a running animation beforehand if the person doing it isn't quick enough.
Never happened in both Bayonetta nor MGR, locked-on or not.

Locking-on to the enemy doesn't slow down Raiden and it's possible to perform all his directional signature moves without this "running beforehand" problem you speak of.

As for Bayonetta, you could do her directional moves without locking-on and once again, none of that "running beforehand" here.


but as far as DMC is concerned lock-on is more based around quick usage rather than constant,
You're just making another of those "you're supposed to play the game this way" reasoning.


...there aren't many other games that use it to go to instead. Maybe if more games that are being made constantly did use this method...
Because in the long run, the lock-on dependency is a little dysfunctional.
 

LeoXCV

Single life for life
Why would it?
Already explained in the paragraph.

Never happened in both Bayonetta nor MGR, locked-on or not.
Never? Have you tried to do the Back/Forward or full rotation stick moves in MGR without buffering the attack?

You're just making another of those "you're supposed to play the game this way" reasoning.
Never said you're suppose to, it's just most likely to be the most efficient way of using the lock-on without the hindrances you speak of and all the benefits I have spoken of.
 

Goldsickle

Well-known Member
Already explained in the paragraph.
Yes and I'm questioning your explanation.

"Out of place"? As I explained in my response, it shouldn't be, since DMC is supposed to be a fast-pace action game and forced walk was some leftover parts of a "survival horror" beta that took too long to remove.

Never? Have you tried to do the Back/Forward or full rotation stick moves in MGR without buffering the attack?
You can stop trying to exaggerate the problem.

The "running beforehand" problem doesn't exists when I perform these moves without locking-on, without forced walk and without the need buffer them in.


Never said you're suppose to, it's just most likely to be the most efficient way of using the lock-on without the hindrances you speak of and all the benefits I have spoken of.
The problem is that there are too many opposing examples.
The DMC series isn't the only game that implemented lock-on and it's done better in other games.
 

LeoXCV

Single life for life
It's got to the point where I really cannot be bothered to answer to any points because I feel I am just repeating myself over and over. It's most likely any counter arguments brought up can probably be countered with a summary or slight re-wording of other things said before. Personally when an argument reaches that point I lose interest. Apologies if you were hoping to continue.
 

Goldsickle

Well-known Member
It's got to the point where I really cannot be bothered to answer to any points because I feel I am just repeating myself over and over. It's most likely any counter arguments brought up can probably be countered with a summary or slight re-wording of other things said before. Personally when an argument reaches that point I lose interest. Apologies if you were hoping to continue.
I only respond if the other replies first.
 
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