Lost cause?

[Foxtrot94]

So, apparently Angels and Demons have been at war since forever. And the only beings that can slay a Demon King are Nephilim.

But then, what's the point of a war? Angels got no chance of killing a Demon King anyway, right?

But Phineas says Nephilim were once the third race. Meaning there were a lot of them. Since I can't see that many demons turning to love and coupling with an Angel, what was the deal? Angels were breeding them to train them to kill a Demon King? But if that's the case, doesn't seem very "angelic" now does it?

What do you think about this? Why did Angels engage in a war they knew they couldn't win, and what about that whole "third race" thing?

 

[Chancey289]

You have to consider quite of bit of things in DmC was left open because how it sets itself up for a sequel. So probably the answers to all these questions lie in a hypothetical sequel.

That being said, as for their war, it's a fued that's never really elaborated on in detail. For all we know, it could be just their version of a race war. Drawing the line in the sand just because they're simply different beings. The nephillim race could have spawned from many who just didn't care about this and possibly strived to live together.

However, to angels and demons, the nephillim are probably considered an abomination. Which brings me to my next point, just because they're angels, that doesn't mean they stand for good.

This series has ALWAYS played around with these concepts. The reason this series is called Devil May Cry is because demons are also capable of empathy. The demons might have had control over the Earth, but it's quite possible the angels simply also never cared that they did. As long as they stay away from their realm.

There's a lot of fun and exciting speculation here with this game's mythos.

 

[V's patron]

It could be the fact that only a nephlihim could kill a demon king wasnt common knowledge till later in the war so maybe they had a different bone to pick

 

[Foxtrot94]

It could be the fact that only a nephlihim could kill a demon king wasnt common knowledge till later in the war

True, that could be the case. But the way the game delivers the concept of how the Nephilim were exterminated cause considered too dangerous, as they possess the powers of both Angels and Demons, leads to believe that that was a known fact.

Which still leads me to wonder how all those Nephilim came to be to begin with. Were Demons raping Angels (you know, rape ain't that uncommon during war time) or something? No, now that I think about it, that can't be the case, cause the game tells us the union between Angels and Demons was seen as an abomination by both races, it was a taboo.
At the same time, I can't believe that a considerable amount of Demons discovered love (and were loved back) with an Angel. Game goes heavy on the fact that Sparda and Eva were an exception.

So, I got no idea, I'm confused. Any theories?

 

[AgentRedgrave]

We're assuming angels are automatically good, and demons automatically bad.

We know going in good demons are a thing from the original series (Sparda, Trish, Lucia, that guy Brad from the anime, and one of those brothers, can't remember his name).

 

[Lain]

Because we've only heard it through second hand stories, a lot of the mythos is shrouded in mystery.

If a Nephilim can kill a "Demon King" then maybe it can kill a god as well. Were the Nephilim a group, a civilisation, or did they act individually. Can they have children, are they Nephilim too. Do other hybrids exist such as human/demon.

What about the angels. How do you differentiate between the divine and demonic. Do they follow some kind of god, or maybe not. Where do they live. Are they a positive force or not.

So many ways you could take a sequel...

 

[Gel]

Even original series goes on on how Eva/Sparda union is exceptional, but we found that wasn't true. Human/demon couples are not so rare as story says.

 

[absolitude]

well it's like good and evil has fought war since forever, biblically, the war is probably for the sake of humans, angels strife to prevent demons from conquering humans realm, which angels failed to do cuz demons did rule humans realm and only nephilim could kill this demon king..

and just because we know we couldn't win, that shouldn't stop us from fighting for the cause.. and like many stories alike, both races didn't know about nephilim until one of them is created, and suddenly "this thing could kill the demon king!" just like that, i mean there should be a demon king killed before mundus for them to know.. huh, my statement raises another question..

anyway, my complaint is are angels really the good in this story? cuz there are no depiction of them in the game cept for the love story of two races, and we did fight angelic enemies, meaning angels did lose and are under demon order.. i hope there are other angels hiding to keep their racial purpose from extinction..

oh, but the nephilim lore is nice tho, being able to kill demon king, won't mean they have to be another good race, vergil showed this, he wanted mundus dead so he can rule --different method ruling, nonetheless he wants to conquer-- thx god there's dante to stop him from that.. too bad the continuity is uncertain..

 

[LordOfDarkness]

Maybe Angels weren't all exactly powerful enough to defeat Mundus, but to save himself from any trouble from them, he made a deal with them. So Mundus proceeds to enslave humanity, instead of going about destroying it. That way the angels stay off his back, because as @Chancey289 said, they simply didn't care enough. It's not like Mundus was slaughtering humans on a constant basis, just controlling them through debt etc.

I'd say that this "peace" or agreement was enough for both races, until Dante and Vergil disrupt it. I mean now you've got two Nephilims running wild. Both responsible for Limbo's destruction, and subsequently the demons flooding into the "human world".

In my opinion, demons and angels fear the Nephilims. They're clearly capable of killing them (apparently), but they are afraid of what they might be able to achieve. I guess it depends on the strengths of both of their parents. Was Sparda powerful? Was Eva powerful? Were they "powerful enough" to create a problem? - Dante and Vergil -

Nephilims would have the ability to freely enter both Worlds, the demon and angel ones. As well as use both of their powers in either Worlds. You can see why angels would consider them a threat.

 

[Gel]

too bad the continuity is uncertain..

If I were you I wouldn't be so pessimistic when it comes to DmC, the same way I'm not that optimistic about DMC. Only time will tell...

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Of course, keep in mind that war doesn't prove who is right and who is wrong. Nephilim are prophesied to kill the Demon King, but that's because they have the abilities that other angels don't - that they can go where they want. Demons can be killed though, and angels as well, most likely. Seems like demons (and again, angels as well) can spawn fairly endlessly, so the fight is never-ending because they have an unlimited force to throw against each other. It's like...a land grab essentially. A perpetual, metaphysical turf war that the demons gained the upper hand in a long time ago, what with Mundus finding the Hellgate and all that.

 

[absolitude]

If I were you I wouldn't be so pessimistic when it comes to DmC, the same way I'm not that optimistic about DMC. Only time will tell...

well you guys have been waiting 8 years+ for the continuity, that's crazy, i would've forgot about wanting a sequel and could care less if it should take that long, the excitement should be dead for me by then, the same feeling squeenix announced ffvii remake, i just smiled, okay, good, nothing more to it, even if i tried to follow into the hype.. stupid companies..

anyway, i still believe we'll have a new devil may cry this gen, but my bet is on the original.. and ignore my rant guys, wouldn't want this thread to go off-topic

 

[LordOfDarkness]

You see the thing is (what I couldn't seem to grasp) was that Mundus uses the 'Hellgate' to be practically immortal, right? And he's got to be led away from it in order to be vulnerable. Well, he's drawing his power from the Underworld, not Limbo. So does that mean that Hell and Limbo are two separate Worlds? Like Purgatory and Heaven/Paradise.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Exactly. And it might not be to say that Mundus is expressly drawing his power from Hell beyond the gate, it's where he's stashed his soul or whatever you wanna call it. When Vergil closed the Hellgate, it shoved his soul into his body, and then he could be killed like any of the other demons Dante fought.

The downside was that closing the Hellgate also essentially dropped Limbo onto the real world, so the demons could be seen. Limbo acted as sort of a veil where the demons could hide and push their influence.

Not sure if purgatory is a thing in DmC's universe, but it would probably work the same way (that's how I'm doing it in the Stairway to Heaven story ).

 

[Chancey289]

Not sure if purgatory is a thing in DmC's universe, but it would probably work the same way (that's how I'm doing it in the Stairway to Heaven story ).

*still waiting for new chapter*

 

[LordOfDarkness]

@TWOxACROSS: Now that Limbo has slipped into the "real World", and with Mundus's defeat also, what might become of Sparda? I thought in DmC he was held captive in Hell or something.

I like the idea that angels have a similar thing going on. The whole 'World within a World' idea is always something I like.

 

[Foxtrot94]

Exactly. And it might not be to say that Mundus is expressly drawing his power from Hell beyond the gate, it's where he's stashed his soul or whatever you wanna call it. When Vergil closed the Hellgate, it shoved his soul into his body, and then he could be killed like any of the other demons Dante fought.

So THAT is what is really required to kill him. Shutting down the Hell Gate. Not being Nephilim.

Or maybe you have to destroy the Gate, but still be a Nephilim to defeat him...?

 

[absolitude]

maybe other than the demon, only nephilim could shut down the hell gate? vergil did shut the hell gate

EDIT : anyway, when it comes to prophecies like "only this can kill that", they're more to the physical and ability feats.. like saiyan to freeza, or furian to necromongers.. angels are just not strong enough to go head to head against the demon king i assume, and there's where nephilim stands..

 

[Foxtrot94]

maybe other than the demon, only nephilim could shut down the hell gate?

That we don't know.

 

[absolitude]

That we don't know.

yea, thus i edited my post with assumptions, lol