I've tried to play DMC 4 after DmC again...

[MasterBlasterAA]

The guy has obviously practiced his @$$ off and is talented, but seriously, he has a justifiable right to hate, because DmC is different? Seems a bit extreme?

I am just saying that he poured a lot of time into that combat system. It would really bum me out if someone changed it so drastically. In his other videos he expresses his hate for the new game. I think its justifiable because all his time learning the old system was wasted. I like the new system personally, but I can see his viewpoint.

 

[Zato-OW]

Why use Nero is the comparison... Shouldn't you use DMC4 Dante seeing as DmC is a AU of Dante from the original...

 

[Jerry Wirerammer]

I am just saying that he poured a lot of time into that combat system. It would really bum me out if someone changed it so drastically. In his other videos he expresses his hate for the new game. I think its justifiable because all his time learning the old system was wasted. I like the new system personally, but I can see his viewpoint.

Just because the skill set is not transferable doesn't mean its wasted though, he can still play DCM4 afterall. Some people act like NT/Capcom have come round their houses and stamped on their old games lol. Hating the new game because its not exactly like the previous seems a bit extreme and more than a little petty to me. I would have thought a top player would welcome a fresh challenge and the oppotunity to learn a new system? The basics are still there, someone with his skill could probably do great things with DmC

It just seems to sum up some peoples attitude to this game, they are hating it for what it isn't rather than loving it for what it is.

 

[SpawnShooter]

Just because the skill set is not transferable doesn't mean its wasted though, he can still play DCM4 afterall. Some people act like NT/Capcom have come round their houses and stamped on their old games lol. Hating the new game because its not exactly like the previous seems a bit extreme and more than a little petty to me. I would have thought a top player would welcome a fresh challenge and the oppotunity to learn a new system? The basics are still there, someone with his skill could probably do great things with DmC

It just seems to sum up some peoples attitude to this game, they are hating it for what it isn't rather than loving it for what it is.

Well for me personally I really felt the system in DMC4 was pretty much perfect. From a gameplay perspective a few new weapons and guns/possibly Styles is a very intriguing possibility from DMC5. Even adding just one new weapon to the current system would add so many new possibilities it'd be crazy. The inevitable expansion of Nero's techniques would also be very nice.


Unfortunately the system in DmC is too different and simply not fun to me, sure there are moves with similar properties but it all feels aesthetic or visual, nothing feels the same. That, coupled with the loss of Styles and other advanced techniques means all the game really has to offer me is weapon switch pause combos, whip traversal, charge cancelling and possibly one or two other things I'm forgetting which just doesn't feel to me overly fun especially when coupled with other annoyances in the game such as colour coded enemies and large platforming sections. When you combine all these things together sure I would have fun with it for a time but it's simply not a direction some people want the series to go.

I also don't think it's fair to say anyone's opinion is better than anothers just because of their skill level, the systems are different enough to have a clear preference at any level of play and just because someone can't perform a technique doesn't mean they don't want to learn and improve, for a lot of people that's where the magic of DMC4s combat comes from, how there's always something new to learn.

 

[MichiGen]

Why use Nero is the comparison... Shouldn't you use DMC4 Dante seeing as DmC is a AU of Dante from the original...

One if the reasons why I choosed Nero for comparison is, that he is actually the main character of DMC 4 since you start the game with him and play to the half, and you play the final mission with him as well.
Second reason was to point out that DMC 4 (which many DmC haters over the internet praise) had also the new main character with lesser complex combat system than DMC1,2 or 3 (and also than DmC) and gamers were not raging as much at its release as they are doing now.
It's hard to satisfy people sometimes... fortunately, I'm more than pleased with this new game. I'm a little bit disappointed how easy it's to achieve the SSS rank, but Hell and Hell mode without super Dante will provide enough challenge imo.

 

[SpawnShooter]

One if the reasons why I choosed Nero for comparison is, that he is actually the main character of DMC 4 since you start the game with him and play to the half, and you play the final mission with him as well.
Second reason was to point out that DMC 4 (which many DmC haters over the internet praise) had also the new main character with lesser complex combat system than DmC and gamers were not raging as much at its release as they are doing now. It's weird to satisfy people sometimes... fortunately, I'm more than pleased with this new game.

I think people forget that there are many that simply enjoyed the canon and story, a lot of people were interested in Nero as a character and wanted to see where the story took him in the future as well as delve into his origins.

 

[Agent47_89]

Why use Nero is the comparison... Shouldn't you use DMC4 Dante seeing as DmC is a AU of Dante from the original...

DmC Dante plays like Nero with Dante's Styles on top.

 

[ChaserTech]

I was just saying that you can't say that the DmC's combat system is clunky when you aren't good enough to use all the combat complexities DMC4 had to offer. I should have replaced "judge" with "criticize". I was directing my statement at people who are comparing DmC's combat to DMC4's combat and criticizing the new system (not people like you, i agree with you). Again, I like both systems, I just want to tell people that you have to be qualified to criticize is all.

Edited my original post

I can agree to that . . . to a certain extent.

I play DMC4 at a fairly high skill level compared to most people. So I'm quite used to the core mechanics of DMC4 as well as the advanced gameplay. If you don't believe me, here are some videos of me playing as Nero and Dante.

​

​

I'm the Nero player in this video. The Dante player is my friend named 2bepower.​

Anyway, you're partially right. Sure you need to be more experienced with the combat system compared to the casual player in order to make statements such as "this game is clunkier" or "this game is slower" as critiquing the game. But you don't need to be a complete master of combat system to say such a thing. You only need to dive deep enough to fully understand the core concepts of it. (Like Jump Cancelling, Buffering attacks, Weapon Switching, and non repetitive combos executing combos)

After working with DmC, I can safely say that it's actually less responsive and more inconsistent with buffering inputs compared to the previous DMC games. It presents a major problem when you're trying to do technical things with the game. Especially if certain inputs won't register just because you're inputting too many moves all at once. (which I never really had much of a problem in DMC4 when playing as Dante)

DmC Dante plays like Nero with Dante's Styles on top.

....No he doesn't.

 

[Dominus]

One if the reasons why I choosed Nero for comparison is, that he is actually the main character of DMC 4 since you start the game with him and play to the half, and you play the final mission with him as well.
Second reason was to point out that DMC 4 (which many DmC haters over the internet praise) had also the new main character with lesser complex combat system than DMC1,2 or 3 (and also than DmC) and gamers were not raging as much at its release as they are doing now.
It's hard to satisfy people sometimes... fortunately, I'm more than pleased with this new game. I'm a little bit disappointed how easy it's to achieve the SSS rank, but Hell and Hell mode without super Dante will provide enough challenge imo.

People raged about Nero back in the day.. Not as bad as DmC rage but it was pretty extensive. Hah imagine if I told people back then we'd be getting a reboot of DMC by Ninja Theory...

 

[Ether0]

The guy has obviously practiced his @$$ off and is talented, but seriously, he has a justifiable right to hate, because DmC is different? Seems a bit extreme?

I can understand him really not liking since it's in no way an advancement of that old system and is a completely new beast to tackle, similar but still very different. That does not make it a bad game at all though and I will never get why a select few who are experts and make combo videos exploiting every nuance of the old combat system feel so entitled to bitch about the series because in all honesty most of us cannot do that nor care to, just want to have fun and play a great combat system with depth.

 

[Rayl]

because in all honesty most of us cannot do that nor care to, just want to have fun and play a great combat system with depth.

You say DmC has depth, some of us feel that DmC doesn't have depth. It gives some interesting new ideas but it takes away so much that it feels boring and unrewarding to those of us making this argument.

 

[Ether0]

You say DmC has depth, some of us feel that DmC doesn't have depth. It gives some interesting new ideas but it takes away so much that it feels boring and unrewarding to those of us making this argument.

Yes and I understand that sentiment perfectly, that of course does not make it bad, and it is entirely subjective. I know it's not as deep as DMC3 or 4 never claimed it was, that is one thing that's obvious, but despite that, at least to me, it feels more fluid in a lot of way and at this point I just find the gameplay to be more fun. Not because it's easier, just because I have a better sense of freedom amongst other things I credit it for. I also never expected it to have as much depth as DMC4 for the simple fact that a younger less experienced team was made it. It took the guys at Capcom quite a while to get to the pinnacle of DMC4 and these guys deserve that same slack to learn their own system and improve just like Capcom when it first developed the older games

 

[Agent47_89]

....No he doesn't.

If you're talking about advanced techniques that most people reserve for Virtua Fighter, then I don't know.

But from the control scheme and general gameplay I found new Dante more similar to Nero.

 

[Dante Redgrave]

You say DmC has depth, some of us feel that DmC doesn't have depth. It gives some interesting new ideas but it takes away so much that it feels boring and unrewarding to those of us making this argument.

There is depth, it's just not, admittedly as much depth as DMC3 or 4. But it's a starting point here, and given another shot, I think NT could probably give us something with comparable depth in a different design. Honestly, I do like the Stances, and would like to see more aspects of Styles incorperated into them, it was much more fluid for me using the D pad as the weapon selection than the shoulder triggers. I've also gotten used to L3/R3 for DT as well, to the point that when I tried playing DMC4 again...I forgot I was playing Nero on the old controls and was wondering why the hell he was shooting Blue Rose and not Snatching my target...And having an empty trigger button is...weird...

 

[Zato-OW]

One if the reasons why I choosed Nero for comparison is, that he is actually the main character of DMC 4 since you start the game with him and play to the half, and you play the final mission with him as well.
Second reason was to point out that DMC 4 (which many DmC haters over the internet praise) had also the new main character with lesser complex combat system than DMC1,2 or 3 (and also than DmC) and gamers were not raging as much at its release as they are doing now.
It's hard to satisfy people sometimes... fortunately, I'm more than pleased with this new game. I'm a little bit disappointed how easy it's to achieve the SSS rank, but Hell and Hell mode without super Dante will provide enough challenge imo.

The biggest complaints included Nero's gameplay and him being limited unlike Dante in that very same game that out shined him by miles. I've never seen anyone praise Nero's combat in the same sentence as DMC4 Dante's because there is no way that you can. The only thing I remember casual players loving about Nero's combat was that he was much more friendly to play as then Dante because Dante had a massive move list.

 

[wallenb]

...WHAT. The basic combos aren't that different from DmC's! You HAVE to be trolling, you simply HAVE to be. How hard is "SWORD SWORD SWORD SWORD" and "SWORD SWORD *pause* SWORD SWORD" exactly? All of the most basic of combos in both games boil down to hitting the attack with different variations of timing. The only real difference is that you have to push back on the control and attack to launch somebody into the air and that CANNOT be that hard to do.

I'm more inclined to believe you got your ass kicked right away is because DmC is an overall easier game then DMC4 is.

i got my ass kicked more or less because i was trying to use high time and stinger like it was in DmC. And Combos are different in both games. DmC basically is only managing your weapons on the fly. DMC 4 literally changes button functions and with 5 different styles to choose from, i got a little overwhelmed. Not to say that i was always getting my ass kicked in DMC4 because i think, at one time, i was pretty good. Not TruStyle potential but not a complete noob and i managed to SSS with no problem, especially with Nero.

You are correct that pressing attack button in different variations is a staple with DMC, but i hardly ever mash attack 4 times in a row with any weapon. I more of less switch weapons in DmC before than, and in DmC it encourages you to switch weapons in mid combo. Unlike DMC4 with Dante.

And i'm not trolling, i never do that. Its been a whole day and you would be the only person with a problem with my observation of DMC4 as of late.

 

[MasterBlasterAA]

I can agree to that . . . to a certain extent.

I play DMC4 at a fairly high skill level compared to most people. So I'm quite used to the core mechanics of DMC4 as well as the advanced gameplay. If you don't believe me, here are some videos of me playing as Nero and Dante.

​

​

I'm the Nero player in this video. The Dante player is my friend named 2bepower.​

Anyway, you're partially right. Sure you need to be more experienced with the combat system compared to the casual player in order to make statements such as "this game is clunkier" or "this game is slower" as critiquing the game. But you don't need to be a complete master of combat system to say such a thing. You only need to dive deep enough to fully understand the core concepts of it. (Like Jump Cancelling, Buffering attacks, Weapon Switching, and non repetitive combos executing combos)

After working with DmC, I can safely say that it's actually less responsive and more inconsistent with buffering inputs compared to the previous DMC games. It presents a major problem when you're trying to do technical things with the game. Especially if certain inputs won't register just because you're inputting too many moves all at once. (which I never really had much of a problem in DMC4 when playing as Dante).

I admit I was exaggerating in my previous post. I don't think you have to play like that guy in the video I posted, I just think you need to be fairly good when playing DMC4 in order to properly assess DmC's combat system. I mean when I played as Dante in DMC4, I rarely switched styles on the fly (mainly just stuck with swordmaster) so I definitely haven't explored the nuances of DMC4's style system. I just posted that video because it really lends perspective to how good a player you are when you can see the absolute best Devil May Cry combat (at least that I have ever seen).

I do obviously admit that DmC's combat is dumbed down. Its never really been unresponsive for me and I also am very quick with my combo inputs, but if it is for you, hopefully the latest patch fixed it (it makes everything smoother for sure). But yeah clearly your opinion is very valid because from the videos I can see you are a tremendous player :lol:. Do you play on xbox? Always like having xbox live friends who i can compete with on the leaderboards.

 

[Jerry Wirerammer]

Well for me personally I really felt the system in DMC4 was pretty much perfect. From a gameplay perspective a few new weapons and guns/possibly Styles is a very intriguing possibility from DMC5. Even adding just one new weapon to the current system would add so many new possibilities it'd be crazy. The inevitable expansion of Nero's techniques would also be very nice.


Unfortunately the system in DmC is too different and simply not fun to me, sure there are moves with similar properties but it all feels aesthetic or visual, nothing feels the same. That, coupled with the loss of Styles and other advanced techniques means all the game really has to offer me is weapon switch pause combos, whip traversal, charge cancelling and possibly one or two other things I'm forgetting which just doesn't feel to me overly fun especially when coupled with other annoyances in the game such as colour coded enemies and large platforming sections. When you combine all these things together sure I would have fun with it for a time but it's simply not a direction some people want the series to go.

I also don't think it's fair to say anyone's opinion is better than anothers just because of their skill level, the systems are different enough to have a clear preference at any level of play and just because someone can't perform a technique doesn't mean they don't want to learn and improve, for a lot of people that's where the magic of DMC4s combat comes from, how there's always something new to learn.

You see, I agree about DMC4, from a combat point of view its the pinnacle, not just of DMC but probably the whole genre. I'm just not sure how much further they could have taken it before it collapsed under its own weight though.

But for me, DmC feels enough like DMC that I'm happy with it. In terms of actual in mission combat I would rate it second after DMC4 (having to choose styles/weapons just makes 3 seem too limited now). But of course this is a personal thing, and "feel" is important to a gamer. Its why I love Street Fighter above all over fighters, it just "feels" right to me.

 

[Terrutas]

THEY ARE DIFFERENT GAMES. When I play DMC4 or earlier titles now, my mind automatically switches to the old button configuration. When I play DmC I switch to the new one. Simple as that. Its like playing Halo and then playing DmC or something, and using the respective button schemes when switching games. I feel that most people on this forum are not good enough at either game to judge them properly. I have gotten every achievement for DMC4 (not exactly an easy feat), 970/1000 for DMC HD (i couldn't bring myself to beat DMC2 bloody palace... such a horrible game...), and rank 13th on the DmC bloody palace, and I still don't think I am good enough to compare these games properly (love every one of them though, also my GT is MasterBlasterAA if you want to check).

If you are this guy, or play DMC4 like this guy, you have a right to hate DmC (and he vehemently hates DmC, justifiably so). He clearly put a ton of time into learning the nuances of DMC4's combat system, and switching to a new one after being that good would be pretty jarring.

Otherwise, you have no right to criticize the new system, because you are simply not good enough.

Just saying, This guy isn't as good as he comes out to be. He plays THE SIMPLE BASICS OF THE COMBAT SYSTEM.

Amazing isn't it?! That's the basic level you should play! Compare that to DmC and you'll see how pathetic it is! the comparison is VERY necessary. Simply because the name of the game is Devil May Cry.



on a sidenote, Keirnoth is a good friend of mine. He taught me alot of the basics and I have a ton of respect for him.

 

[berto]

Are you even bothering to read my posts? Where am i denying the right to have an opinion? You all need to stop claiming things i haven't even said, it's getting old.

Ah, well he says:

Is it so wrong to prefer one game over the other?:/

And you respond with:

Not for bullshit reasons it's not and i have every right to call anybody out on praising DmC for doing something that the DMC games apparently don't do when they've been doing it SINCE THE FIRST GAME.

The part I'm focusing my responce to is the:

Not for bullshit reasons

For whatever reason. This wasn't an attack towards you, simply a statement that nether side has the right to claim demands.

He says: Is it wrong to like one over the other?
You say: No, specially for bullshit reasons.
I say: For any reason!