Force Awakens SPOILER Discussion

[Demi-fiend]

So... do they even mention Jar Jar in the film? Is he a sith lord, or is he written off in the script via off-screen 'heroic death'?

Anyway don't scroll down or read anything else if you don't want to be spoiled.

Spoiler

*sigh* I know I said I wouldn't watch this guy anymore, but at least in this particular video, he gives an entertaining review without feeling the need to make fun of anyone he disagrees with... for once.

Spoiler

Spoiler

To be fair though, Luke is probably one of the big reveals and Jar Jar will end up having nothing to do with the new trilogy at all.

 

[LordOfDarkness]

I thought I'd add spoiler tags around the media content just incase.

But for those who come here and see/read things they don't want spoiled, there's plenty of fair warning here. So you'll be held responsible for that yourselves, and not the thread creator.

 

[Demi-fiend]

Spoiler: #notalltuskanraiders

Spoiler: jarjartheory

The bold claim at the end of the theory is that Jar Jar is actually Andy Serkis's motion capture villain Supreme Leader Snoke, which... well, we don't know too much about Snoke, so who knows: maybe this one isn't so crazy after all.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/12...eories-that-were-completely-and-totally-wrong

 

[Jak]

ok. since this is a spoiler discussion, i might as well go balls out.

so, coming from the POV of a guy who read the expanded universe, i was a bit irritated that this movie homages so much stuff from the expanded universe (bordering on the lines straight up adapting certain stuff too). meanwhile disney has decided to scrap all the original expanded universe stuff. like kylo ren.

Spoiler: Kylo Ren spoiler

in the film he's han and leia's son...who was force sensitive...and was once trained by luke...then he turned to the dark side...

JACEN!?! IS THAT YO--no? you're name is ben? as in, you're not darth caedus? oh well.

third act is just like star wars episode 4 and 6...ok...wow...how "amazing".

aside from that, i really loved everything else. the acting was great, the action was stunning, and the concept of the starkiller base is balls. (plus, it's a nice reference to the name "starkiller", which is really important to star wars mythology). i wish the music was more memorable, but kylo ren had a great theme and rey had a great theme. also, the dog fight music was beautiful as well

 

[Demi-fiend]

I didn't read your post because I didn't watch the movie yet.

 

[Jak]

I didn't read your post because I didn't watch the movie yet.

dude...if you're joking that's funny...if not...GO. GO WATCH IT. pfft. you think i won't find you, a drag you out of your domain and glue you to a cinema seat to watch the movie? test me. test me.

and if i don't...then i guess i'll use that energy to finally find waldo

 

[Demi-fiend]

and if i don't...then i guess i'll use that energy to finally find waldo

I would've by now but -- I gotta wait until New Year's.

 

[LordOfDarkness]

The movie has certainly left a lot of questions resonating in the back of my head.

I really loved Rey's character. However, there are a couple of things that have been criticised about her character. And I can understand those criticisms, because they sound like pretty valid points - For instance, Rey seems to be a flawlessly "perfect" character in the movie. She's good at piloting ships, good at fighting, good at surviving...there doesn't seem to be much she isn't good at. Now there's clearly a reason she's so "well skilled", and that's that she probably had some form of previous training we never saw. I mean let's face it, we don't know all too much about her. And let's not forget

Spoiler: Rey spoiler

she's a force user and set to become a Jedi, and clearly already a very skilled one. Which moves me onto my next 'criticism' of Rey - How did she know that you can perform Jedi mind tricks? - well, as we all know, the force is all around in Star Wars, and I would assume that either Rey understood these manipulation tricks because the force "spoke to her" in a sense. Now, for someone just starting out in using the force, Rey does a marvellous job at it. This could mean either that her father was very strong in the ways of the force (possibly Luke Skywalker), or that she is like Anakin Skywalker was as a kid, and has a very high force count

The other thing I didn't understand - and because it was intentionally left unanswered in the movie - was

Spoiler

How did they end up with Luke Skywalker's Lightsabre? I guess we'll find out in Episode 8, maybe.

 

[Demi-fiend]

No offense, but I felt that she was written that way to be a feminist mary sue.

 

[WolfOD64]

No offense, but I felt that she was written that way to be a feminist mary sue.

Mary Sue, yes. Feminist...eh, I'm not sure.

If she was really written to be a shining matriarch of modern feminism, she wouldn't have been written to have any sense of admiration for Finn, or need him any way. That idea contrasts greatly with their idea of a "strong independent female that 'don't need no man' ".

Luckily, she's written that she does need him, and does care for him...so there's that, at least. Personally, I found her and Finn's characters/relationship handled pretty well. I was a bit disappointed Finn didn't break out of his bumbling Stormtrooper phase to actually kick some tail, without failing for once...but that chance will probably come in future episodes. Overall, I found him and Rey to be well-executed enough (even with Rey's mary sue powers kicking in for plot convenience and for no other real, tangible reason).

Kylo Ren, on the other hand...ugh...God.

 

[LordOfDarkness]

@WolfOD64: I'm more interested in seeing Snoke, and what he's capable of. Kylo Ren was nowhere, and I mean no-friggin'-where close to being as badass and as imposing as Darth Vader was. You can even sense from the atmosphere throughout the movie that he doesn't appear to instill that same fearful sense of power and control over the Stormtroopers as Vader did.

 

[Dark Drakan]

@WolfOD64: I'm more interested in seeing Snoke, and what he's capable of. Kylo Ren was nowhere, and I mean no-friggin'-where close to being as badass and as imposing as Darth Vader was. You can even sense from the atmosphere throughout the movie that he doesn't appear to instill that same fearful sense of power and control over the Stormtroopers as Vader did.

He is clearly a skilled force user (able to stop blaster fire mid air and essentially freeze people in place) and not bad with a lightsaber...

Spoiler

However as Snoke said his training wasn't complete. He hadn't "fully embraced the dark side as he was still at conflict with himself over the "pull" of the light. Hence his little talk with Vadars helmet, he's clearly a little unhinged. Wasn't until "that" moment that he fully let go of his past and embraced the dark and I now believe that he will go on to become even more powerful & a bigger villain going forward into the next movie.

 

[nephlim god]

I was a bit concerned how...

Spoiler

rey bested him in her first ever saber duel. But after thinking about it he had just been shot and injured before the fight so he was way off his best. Also mentaly off his game due to killing han.

Hes the most exciting character in the new film and i cant wait to see him progress as they move forward.

 

[Dark Drakan]

I was a bit concerned how...

Spoiler

rey bested him in her first ever saber duel. But after thinking about it he had just been shot and injured before the fight so he was way off his best. Also mentaly off his game due to killing han.

Hes the most exciting character in the new film and i cant wait to see him progress as they move forward.

Like you said...

Spoiler

He had already been injured and she was clearly no stranger to a fight. He's also a pretty complex character and I like that, would like to see what drove him to do what he did and turn to the dark side. He will be more badass in 2nd movie after fully embracing dark side and with a new facial scar added to the mix.

 

[LordOfDarkness]

I'm sorry, but despite all of that I still don't find Kylo Ren as intimidating as Darth Vader or Darth Sidious. I don't feel like they concentrated enough on Kylo Ren in the film, which was disappointing. He could've used more character development, which no doubt he'll receive in Episode 8. For me, Rey stole the movie -

Spoiler

I'd say that she's very good at tapping into the force (or going to be a very good Jedi), which is going to be a difficult match for Kylo in the coming movies. After Rey doesn't succumb to Kylo's attempts to force information out of her, he goes to tell Snoke, who seems to be worried that a simple scavenger girl could be strong enough to resist Kylo. And then when Kylo returns to find out Rey has escaped he instantly expresses his concern, even going as far as to suggest that the longer Rey is on the loose then the more powerful she'll become. It's almost as if he's saying it like "This is what she managed to do by using the force already, so just imagine how much further she could go with all of that potential". Kylo is concerned, and so is Snoke, and that much is made clear in this turning point.

 

[Jak]

i feel like darth cae--*ahem* i mean, kylo ren was MEANT to be non threatening. because his whole quest is to (and i don't think this qualifies as a spoiler) be like vader. he has a lot of vader-isms, and carries himself in public like darth vader. however, the thing that vader has over ren is that vader by the time we got to episode 4 vader was a seasoned sith lord. when you heard his name, you associated it with the death of over 1000 jedi knights and masters. the death of men women and children. and the genocide of dozens of alien races.. plus, even before hand, vader was known to be a powerful jedi knight. so, he was feared by people from both sides.

an advantage that kylo ren doesn't have.

 

[Dark Drakan]

i feel like darth cae--*ahem* i mean, kylo ren was MEANT to be non threatening. because his whole quest is to (and i don't think this qualifies as a spoiler) be like vader. he has a lot of vader-isms, and carries himself in public like darth vader. however, the thing that vader has over ren is that vader by the time we got to episode 4 vader was a seasoned sith lord. when you heard his name, you associated it with the death of over 1000 jedi knights and masters. the death of men women and children. and the genocide of dozens of alien races.. plus, even before hand, vader was known to be a powerful jedi knight. so, he was feared by people from both sides.

an advantage that kylo ren doesn't have.

Im rather interested to find out what made him worship Vader like he did as he seems to treat him like some god who needs to keep him on the path of the dark. Makes me wonder what hes been told as Vader didnt start out evil (as everyone knows) and in the end he had turned against the dark side and turned on the emperor. There was still clearly light inside Kylo Ren (he says himself that he feels the pull of the light) and why turn to someone who gave into that pull to the light as a figure to keep you on the path of the dark? Is it merely the reputation of such a feared Sith Lord he wants?

Also hes quite powerful for someone who isnt technically a Jedi or Sith and its clear he is still merely an apprentice to Supreme Leader Snoke (whos someone else I would like to know more about & some theories here). When Snoke mentions 'completing his training' I wonder if that is the moment he will end up becoming a Sith Lord now he has seemingly fully embraced the dark side.

 

[Jak]

Im rather interested to find out what made him worship Vader like he did as he seems to treat him like some god who needs to keep him on the path of the dark. Makes me wonder what hes been told as Vader didnt start out evil (as everyone knows) and in the end he had turned against the dark side and turned on the emperor. There was still clearly light inside Kylo Ren (he says himself that he feels the pull of the light) and why turn to someone who gave into that pull to the light as a figure to keep you on the path of the dark? Is it merely the reputation of such a feared Sith Lord he wants?

JJ gave a nod to that and said that kylo ren idolizes VADER and not AKANKIN. he wants to complete vader's mission of taking control of the galaxy to keep it protected (something like that anyways). i'm interested in seeing where that goes.

 

[LordOfDarkness]

Why Kylo Ren turned to the dark side, according to J.J Abrams

@Jak: You're right that Kylo idolises Vader

Spoiler

his grandfather

, and @Dark Drakan: I don't think Snoke has been honest with Kylo since the get go. He's been playing him, and even Han says that to Kylo.

 

[Jak]

i'm not sure if anyone here would agree with me, but i kinda wanna see anakin show up as a force ghost in either episode 8 or 9. i'm not sure how much of the classic expanded universe they're pulling from, but one thing that i really liked was that there's both anakin and vader force ghosts (because they're two separate entities).

Spoiler

wouldn't it be cool if rey could see anakin because rey is a jedi and kylo ren saw vader because he's a sith