DMC Reboot- Its not the end of the world

[UZUDAE]

Okay, I'm gonna go against the grain here and say this- there's more to Dante than his hair and a red coat. Let me explain to gamers exactly WHY the developers probably made the changes they did, in order of importance-

1. The hairstyle Dante is sporting is NOT supposed to look like the chief designer of Ninja Theory. That's a hairstyle that's popular in Japan. Its to add eastern influence probably.

2. The black hair- its got flecks of white in it. Judging by how DMC plotlines usually go, I'm sure SOMETHING traumatic will happen and it'll turn full white. Or it wont...but hey, either way the world will keep turning. Just speculating.

3. The smoking- this is younger, more rebellious Dante. I mean that is the STAPLE of a youth in revolt, smoking. So if he's supposed to be a more youthful, rebellious, and immature Datne, it makes a LOT of sense.

4. I'm surprised nobody is saying anything about the clear change in setting. Its pretty radical if you think about it, but...seems pretty out there, in a good way. Heaven and hell have both been explored in the DMC mythos, but never purgatory. Could be interesting.

5. Change in music- nobody is complaining about this either. Was I the ONLY one who noticed that it had lost its gothic jrock/electro sound? Its more indie/punk rock sounding now. Food for thought.

6. Dante's sword- its NOT rebellion. If we're looking for positives his new weapon is a big one. Think of the possibilities? It looks like it has the capability of the devil bringer, but can grab inanimate objects too. It can also shape shift and it looks like Dante might even have some hand to hand moves. Combat could see a dramatic improvement.

7. New art style- Everything looks different...EVERYTHING! The DMC artstyle was, in my opinion, good looking, but in need of a new coat of paint. Ninja Theory was right when they said that what used to be cool doesn't stay cool. If you're trying to be stylish, you need to flow with the times.

That's all, I've put in my two cents. What do you guys think?

P.S if you want my PERSONAL opinion, I think new Dante is pretty sexy

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

I agree with a lot of what you say, actually. In fact, I agree with everything you say. Nice post. +rep.

 

[Ronan]

It's certainly something to consider. More rep for you ^_^

 

[UZUDAE]

why thank you for the rep

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

No problem, man. ^_^

 

[Darkstar Darin]

2. The black hair- its got flecks of white in it. Judging by how DMC plotlines usually go, I'm sure SOMETHING traumatic will happen and it'll turn full white. Or it wont...but hey, either way the world will keep turning. Just speculating.

3. The smoking- this is younger, more rebellious Dante. I mean that is the STAPLE of a youth in revolt, smoking. So if he's supposed to be a more youthful, rebellious, and immature Datne, it makes a LOT of sense.

5. Change in music- nobody is complaining about this either. Was I the ONLY one who noticed that it had lost its gothic jrock/electro sound? Its more indie/punk rock sounding now. Food for thought.

6. Dante's sword- its NOT rebellion. If we're looking for positives his new weapon is a big one. Think of the possibilities? It looks like it has the capability of the devil bringer, but can grab inanimate objects too. It can also shape shift and it looks like Dante might even have some hand to hand moves. Combat could see a dramatic improvement.

okay here's my thoughts:
1) i hope it does turn white, im not overly concerned with appearance but i really wanna c silver

2) THANK GOD IM NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO NOTICED!!

3) as long as the music sounds good, then i dont mind

4) that flippin sword... :dry:

 

[UZUDAE]

See I don't really mind the black. I'm not saying I WANT it to change, I'm just guessing that it probably will. And I say it will be over something traumatic because of the X-rays of Dante's brain they featured in the trailer. That and the part where he was clutching his head...maybe mentally he's not all there

 

[Asmodaius]

I couldn't agree more. +rep to you. ^^

 

[Dominus]

I guess one person has to do it..

1. The hairstyle Dante is sporting is NOT supposed to look like the chief designer of Ninja Theory.

sources, sources, sources, sources!

2. The black hair- its got flecks of white in it. Judging by how DMC plotlines usually go, I'm sure SOMETHING traumatic will happen and it'll turn full white. Or it wont...but hey, either way the world will keep turning. Just speculating.

Thats what most people have already concluded.

3. The smoking- this is younger, more rebellious Dante. I mean that is the STAPLE of a youth in revolt, smoking. So if he's supposed to be a more youthful, rebellious, and immature Datne, it makes a LOT of sense.

Another kind of obvious point, but Dante has never been portrayed as a smoker in any of his games, and it feels like an easy tack on to drive a point.. In fact this rebellious, youthful attitude was pulled off quite well in DMC3 without the need for Dante to smoke...

4. I'm surprised nobody is saying anything about the clear change in setting. Its pretty radical if you think about it, but...seems pretty out there, in a good way. Heaven and hell have both been explored in the DMC mythos, but never purgatory. Could be interesting.

What?

5. Change in music- nobody is complaining about this either. Was I the ONLY one who noticed that it had lost its gothic jrock/electro sound? Its more indie/punk rock sounding now. Food for thought.

UK developer..

6. Dante's sword- its NOT rebellion. If we're looking for positives his new weapon is a big one. Think of the possibilities? It looks like it has the capability of the devil bringer, but can grab inanimate objects too. It can also shape shift and it looks like Dante might even have some hand to hand moves. Combat could see a dramatic improvement.

Nope. New weapon is garbage. Just look at Dante's Inferno and you'll see a similar shape shifting weapon (or at least is its a stretchable scythe). It's stupid and unoriginal to make a weapon that can shift into anything. You see this trend happening too much in action games and it makes me worried. A weapon needs a personality and limits to have any kind of noticeable impact, otherwise it becomes background noise. Do you really see anyone raving about Dante's Inferno's stretching scythe? no....

7. New art style- Everything looks different...EVERYTHING! The DMC artstyle was, in my opinion, good looking, but in need of a new coat of paint. Ninja Theory was right when they said that what used to be cool doesn't stay cool. If you're trying to be stylish, you need to flow with the times.

Uh, sources, and context needed. Cool is very subjective so there is no indication they are going in the right direction style wise...

 

[UZUDAE]

I guess one person has to do it..



sources, sources, sources, sources!



Thats what most people have already concluded.


Another kind of obvious point, but Dante has never been portrayed as a smoker in any of his games, and it feels like an easy tack on to drive a point.. In fact this rebellious, youthful attitude was pulled off quite well in DMC3 without the need for Dante to smoke...



What?



UK developer..



Nope. New weapon is garbage. Just look at Dante's Inferno and you'll see a similar shape shifting weapon (or at least is its a stretchable scythe). It's stupid and unoriginal to make a weapon that can shift into anything. You see this trend happening too much in action games and it makes me worried. A weapon needs a personality and limits to have any kind of noticeable impact, otherwise it becomes background noise. Do you really see anyone raving about Dante's Inferno's stretching scythe? no....



Uh, sources, and context needed. Cool is very subjective so there is no indication they are going in the right direction style wise...

okay...in order

1. It IS a trend, I'm not going to scour japanse fashion sites looking for a picture, waste of my time. And look at the chief's hairstyle, its not layered or tapered down to a buzz on the sides like Dante's, just the bangs are similar

2. I realize its obvious, its just also been a hotspot for criticism/whining, so I'm doing what the title suggest, explaining WHY they probably did it

3. I realize he's never been portrayed as a smoker, but he's never been portrayed this young, either? Plus comparing DMC3 Dante to the new one is...not exactly fair. We don't have plot points on the new game, perhaps he's got a reason to be a lot MORE rebellious and ****ed off this time. The trailer does subtly hint that he could have psychological issues (hence the catscans towards the end, and the rehabilitation)

4. Its called Limbo city. Limbo is purgatory, for all we know it literally IS purgatory. Plus did it LOOK like a setting you've ever seen in a DMC? The closest I can think of is Fortuna, and that's not a close match even.

5. Yes, I know that, thank you for "clarifying." But still, a change is a change, regardless of a reason. Isn't a total change in soundtrack something notable? I was just giving it a cursory mention.

6. I thought we were talking cold, hard, objective facts? That's sounds an AWFUL lot like an opinion. Plus we don't know ANYTHING about it yet. Also if you're talking about weapons from DMC1 I think you mean Sparda, Inferno was the gauntlets, remember? And shifting weapon is almost a necessity. How ELSE do they carry over the devil bringer mechanic? Plus from a gameplay standpoint you can't deny it opens doors. Lets just wait and see HOW they integrate it before we bash it

7. A "source"? I'm not writing a thesis, and you know that's a rhetorical preposition. There's no official source on what cool is, so I'll quote a rather notable supreme court justice and compare it to the subject of pornography.

"I can't define it, but I know it when I see it"

Just because it is subjective, and can't be measured, DOESN'T mean style doesn't exist, and therefore can't change

 

[Dominus]

okay...in order
1. It IS a trend, I'm not going to scour japanse fashion sites looking for a picture, waste of my time. And look at the chief's hairstyle, its not layered or tapered down to a buzz on the sides like Dante's, just the bangs are similar

Yah but the evidence here would be that it looks exactly like the developer's hairstyle, we don't know if that was the intention but it certainly speaks volumes that it looks like him. And regards to Japanese fashion you need to cite some source if you are making a claim about it...

okay...in order
3. I realize he's never been portrayed as a smoker, but he's never been portrayed this young, either? Plus comparing DMC3 Dante to the new one is...not exactly fair. We don't have plot points on the new game, perhaps he's got a reason to be a lot MORE rebellious and ****ed off this time. The trailer does subtly hint that he could have psychological issues (hence the catscans towards the end, and the rehabilitation)

It's true he hasn't been displayed this young, but the point of DMC3 Dante was to show you don't have to portray characters in cliche ways to get the point across that they are rebellious.

4. Its called Limbo city. Limbo is purgatory, for all we know it literally IS purgatory. Plus did it LOOK like a setting you've ever seen in a DMC? The closest I can think of is Fortuna, and that's not a close match even.

I understand that much, but the setting just looks like a part of a city (prob UK inspired city), just a different city than DMC3.

6. I thought we were talking cold, hard, objective facts? That's sounds an AWFUL lot like an opinion. Plus we don't know ANYTHING about it yet. Also if you're talking about weapons from DMC1 I think you mean Sparda, Inferno was the gauntlets, remember? And shifting weapon is almost a necessity. How ELSE do they carry over the devil bringer mechanic?

It is an opinion, but it has merit because I am citing a game which utilizes a similar shape shifting weapon system, Dante's Inferno, where you have one weapon most of the game (stretchy, shape shifting scythe). Shifting isn't a necessity, its a way to add "more" weapons without having to actually think about it.

I don't know why the devil bringer mechanic would necessitate a shape-shifting weapon, perhaps you could elaborate on that point?

Plus from a gameplay standpoint you can't deny it opens doors. Lets just wait and see HOW they integrate it before we bash it

From a game play standpoint it makes opening doors easier, but it does not open a lot of doors. It basically is a quick fix to adding other weapons, and I'm pretty sure we will see a very low weapon count, which is part of the reason DMC4 fell short compared to DMC3.

 

[UZUDAE]

Yah but the evidence here would be that it looks exactly like the developer's hairstyle, we don't know if that was the intention but it certainly speaks volumes that it looks like him. And regards to Japanese fashion you need to cite some source if you are making a claim about it...

Fine...if you insist on a source- http://www.yesstyle.com/en/justyle-long-sleeve-printed-t-shirt-gray-xxl/info.html/pid.1023137340

Try and tell me that doesn't look eerily similar to Dante's hair, as opposed to this- http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3051/2564566926_66eaa2f12e.jpg?v=0

No, the head designers hair bares NO resemblance, he just has bangs. Plenty of people have bangs, does that mean they all look like Dante?

It's true he hasn't been displayed this young, but the point of DMC3 Dante was to show you don't have to portray characters in cliche ways to get the point across that they are rebellious.

Valid point, but isn't Dante from DMC 1 a stereotype? It would be tough to argue that he doesn't perfectly fit the "wise cracking bad boy" stereotype to a T. Plus we don't know ANYTHING about new Dante's personality, so how do we know if he's stereotypical at all? Again...why not wait till we have more information before jumping to conclusions

I understand that much, but the setting just looks like a part of a city (prob UK inspired city), just a different city than DMC3.

In my opinion the new setting has a more surreal, and hyperstylized appearance. There's the ominous cresent towers the trailer opens with, the disproportionately big and decrepit buildings...its got an ethereal quality to it. Again, just my personal observations. We're both in the right here- its as similar as it is different.

It is an opinion, but it has merit because I am citing a game which utilizes a similar shape shifting weapon system, Dante's Inferno, where you have one weapon most of the game (stretchy, shape shifting scythe). Shifting isn't a necessity, its a way to add "more" weapons without having to actually think about it.

I don't know why the devil bringer mechanic would necessitate a shape-shifting weapon, perhaps you could elaborate on that point?

I would argue that you haven't "cited" anything. You're just falling back on the same example. Dante's sword SPARDA does change into a scythe, but that's not a very good example since its morphing barely integrated into the gameplay. Plus to cite a good example what about Pandora #666 in DMC4, it morphed and made a great addition. For some reason you keep putting the burden of proof on me.

From a game play standpoint it makes opening doors easier, but it does not open a lot of doors. It basically is a quick fix to adding other weapons, and I'm pretty sure we will see a very low weapon count, which is part of the reason DMC4 fell short compared to DMC3.

Okay...I disagree with that statement on so many levels. With Nero the combat didn't suffer at ALL because of a low weapon count. In fact the combat was stronger in the first half when there WERE no weapons except for blue rose and red queen. The devil bringer was the real gem of DMC4's combat. Dante's gameplay suffered from an noted absence of the devil bringer, his weapons and style changes couldn't compensate. So...if the weapon changes form, you can have your cake and eat it too. You don't have to pick between switching weapons/styles, or having the ability to drag enemies to you. In this new game it looks like you can do both. Hence a morphing weapon isn't a "quick fix" its the PERFECT solution.

Can you think of a better solution? I can't

 

[Dominus]

Fine...if you insist on a source- http://www.yesstyle.com/en/justyle-long-sleeve-printed-t-shirt-gray-xxl/info.html/pid.1023137340

Try and tell me that doesn't look eerily similar to Dante's hair, as opposed to this- http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3051/2564566926_66eaa2f12e.jpg?v=0

No, the head designers hair bares NO resemblance, he just has bangs. Plenty of people have bangs, does that mean they all look like Dante?

http://i.screwattack.com/content/images/view_10439_1_1285149703.jpg

I would argue that you haven't "cited" anything. You're just falling back on the same example. Dante's sword SPARDA does change into a scythe, but that's not a very good example since its morphing barely integrated into the gameplay. Plus to cite a good example what about Pandora #666 in DMC4, it morphed and made a great addition. For some reason you keep putting the burden of proof on me.

Here I need to emphasize I'm talking about a different game, not DMC1, a game for PS3 called "Dante's Inferno". And Pandora was well implented, I'll give you that.

Okay...I disagree with that statement on so many levels. With Nero the combat didn't suffer at ALL because of a low weapon count. In fact the combat was stronger in the first half when there WERE no weapons except for blue rose and red queen. The devil bringer was the real gem of DMC4's combat. Dante's gameplay suffered from an noted absence of the devil bringer, his weapons and style changes couldn't compensate. So...if the weapon changes form, you can have your cake and eat it too. You don't have to pick between switching weapons/styles, or having the ability to drag enemies to you. In this new game it looks like you can do both. Hence a morphing weapon isn't a "quick fix" its the PERFECT solution.

Can you think of a better solution? I can't

I disagree with you on Nero's gameplay. First time I played DMC4 Nero was actually more fun than Dante at some points (prob because they added Dante later), but after a while it got boring because he only has one weapon. The dynamics of the devil bringer got pretty boring after 3 missions, grab , grab, grab... and the fact that you only get a couple upgrades to it made it even more cringe worthy.

I think the problem for Dante's styles was that it was thrown in there, so it did not feel as developed as Nero's system..

But onto the shape shifting weapon, it is a quick fix and it streamlines the gameplay toooooo much. That's the trend most action games are taking, button mashing fests, which gets boring pretty fast. It sacrifices any dynamic in terms of weapon selection in favor for a do it all weapon. I'm ok with a weapon serving more than 1 function, like say have one weapon have melee and also let you shoot and drag enemies, but a magical shape-shifting do it all yourself sword? No thanks.

 

[UZUDAE]

Yes, I've seen the picture but I still say that's a stretch. Look closely at his hair, its a uniform length, just slicked back on one side. Conversely Dante's is NOT one uniform length. Who's looks more similar? The link I sent you, or the link you sent me? If you were to answer honestly?

Also lets agree to disagree on Nero's gameplay. I thought he multitude of moves you could buy for him as well as the EX gauge AND devil trigger mode more than compensated. Its not what the discussion was about in the first place though, lets chalk it up to difference of opinions.

But onto the shape shifting weapon, it is a quick fix and it streamlines the gameplay toooooo much. That's the trend most action games are taking, button mashing fests, which gets boring pretty fast. It sacrifices any dynamic in terms of weapon selection in favor for a do it all weapon. I'm ok with a weapon serving more than 1 function, like say have one weapon have melee and also let you shoot and drag enemies, but a magical shape-shifting do it all yourself sword? No thanks.

You make streamlined gameplay sound like a bad thing, isn't streamlining it a good thing? Revitalizing controls that were close to feeling clunky with something that feels smoother and more natural? That's EXACTLY what Capcom did with RE4, and it was a hit. Plus DMC is all about the depth and complexity of the combat system. Having such a multipurpose weapon gives them possibilities to make the combat deep AND easily accessible- easy to learn, but difficult to master. Plus you're assuming again- we don't know if its magic, demonic, or what. Maybe its perfectly explained in the plot? Maybe it somehow IS Rebellion? We don't have the facts.

Also...my apologies. I didn't realize you were talking about Dante's Inferno. An interesting coincidence, both that and the first DMC have swords that become scythes.

 

[Chrysander]

I really don't see the need for all this continual back and forth all over the place, it's so tiresome. I feel like just dropping all DMC forums because this is all that ever happens now, and I'll pop back once we've got some more footage - but even then it'll probably be the same old stuff. Basically you either like what you've seen so far, or you don't. Personally I think it looks utterly worthless, but for me to deconstruct my opinion is a waste of time, since what does anyone gain from reading why it sucks, if they like it?

 

[UZUDAE]

I really don't see the need for all this continual back and forth all over the place, it's so tiresome. I feel like just dropping all DMC forums because this is all that ever happens now, and I'll pop back once we've got some more footage - but even then it'll probably be the same old stuff. Basically you either like what you've seen so far, or you don't. Personally I think it looks utterly worthless, but for me to deconstruct my opinion is a waste of time, since what does anyone gain from reading why it sucks, if they like it?

Just hear me out before you assume I'm argumentative ^^;

I'm not dismissing any opinions, honestly. I want to hear all opinions for better or worse. I post my opinion because I want to hear what people have to say supporting it AND contrary to it.

I just wanna hear the well reasoned opinions of everyone. Plus our back and forth wasn't aggressive ^_^

we're even friends now

 

[moseslmpg]

I agree with Dominus. Uzu, you are splitting hairs (no pun intended) with a lot of these points, especially the hair (no pun intended again). I mean, I went to Japan for a semester and saw hardly anyone with Dino's hairstyle (and I saw a lot of hip Japanese people). Tameem's hair does have an obvious resemblance to Dino's style, and the pic you posted is less like Dino's and certainly not indicative of any significant trend in Japan.

Also, with this shape shifting weapon, either they will have to have the different forms accessible within different combos, which defeats the purpose of having a shapeshifting weapon, or the forms will have to be mapped to separate weapon slots, which only functions as a way to remove the need to find weapons in the game. That was one of my gripes with Nero as well, the monotony and lack of actual depth.

And as for the smoking, it is very stereotypical and totally against the essence of Dante's character. It may have been the staple of the youth in revolt back when smoking was actually rebellious, but I don't think anyone associates smoking with rebellion anymore. In the context of the game, who would he be rebelling against? The department of health? It serves no purpose in the game except in a last-ditch effort to make him look cool and portray a prisoner of his own vices, from which he will presumably liberate himself by the end.

 

[DemonDream]

I agree with almost everything.

1. I think South Korea or Thailand takes that popularity hairstyle more than Japan. But mainly it's popular in most of the Asian countries. And like you said

Its to add eastern influence probably.

2. As long as his hair is black, white, or mixed together, I'm cool with that.

5. I always thought after dmc2 the gothic music were gone and was replace by death metal. or do you mean the music while playing the music? the music I'm talking is the main theme song of the DMC3-4.

7. I agree that it needs colors, but the style looks fine to me whether they are going to stick with it or not. Idk, if they stick with the colors we see in the trailer, its like playing kilzone 2 which I love.
I think I'm used it to now of the colors.

Anyways I agree with you. rep up for you.

 

[kenjiharimaCU]

On the topic "Its not the end of the world" it's said the Mayan Prophecy says the end of the world will be in 2012.

 

[moseslmpg]

The world ends every time you go to sleep. It is always there when you wake up. I wouldn't worry.