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A child of many names...

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CoolDemon

X will never be Y
WHO ******* NEEDS ??? games don't get published everyday like comics ! Reboot means keeping the qualities intact !
You should calm down. Games and comics are different but no need to say crap about Ninja theory's Dante.
It's just best to leave it alone.

You will only make things bad for yourself and everyone else. Arguing with DmC supporters won't get you nowhere.

The majority of people around DmC controversy thinks Ninja theory's version of Dante is the same Dante as DMC 1.
 

ROCKMAN X

Keyser Söze
You should calm down. Games and comics are different but no need to say crap about Ninja theory's Dante.
It's just best to leave it alone.

You will only make things bad for yourself and everyone else. Arguing with DmC supporters won't get you nowhere.

The majority of people around DmC controversy thinks Ninja theory's version of Dante is the same Dante as DMC 1.

That's unbearable they can just STFU no need TO scream "HE IS DANTE" he is the same blah blah he isn't ! I can't take black and white as the same its either white or black i choose white so its pointless in arguing that white is black we all know they both are north pole and south pole why do they keep insisting that he IS SAME dante to pi$$ me off ? he is just an alternate deranged $hitty redesign titled as "Mah name is dante"
 

KenKen

Gorram Browncoat
No tread mills will get us nowhere you wanna know why? Because No matter how much I run it keeps pushing me back
I can't say I know exactly what you mean.
But I'm still sorry you're upset. We're all hoping it'll be a good game though!
Because no-one wants "Dante" to be synonymous with "that guy that was in a crappy game in 2012."
 

mrrandomlulz

Monsuuuta moonssuta mo mo mo mo monsuuta
am
I can't say I know exactly what you mean.
But I'm still sorry you're upset. We're all hoping it'll be a good game though!
Because no-one wants "Dante" to be synonymous with "that guy that was in a crappy game in 2012."
I am saying that treadmills are evil. Because I run and run until i fall off
they are the meanest exscorsize equipment ever
 

Ana

Well-known Member
In a reboot sense a character can stay the same for people to be able to call them the same. Take Parasite Eve reboot (Third Birthday) or Tombraider reboot:
Both of those characters are very much the same as the original characters.


Aya Brea (Parasite Eve)
Original
Aya_Brea_1.jpg


REBOOT
GP_the-3rd-birthday-parasite-eve-aya-brea-sexy-screenshot-586x332.jpg

This... is a really bad example to use. I can't begin to tell you how bad.

Okay, yes I can. For one, 3rd Birthday is a direct continuation of the same storyline. For two, fans complain extensively how very Not-Aya Aya acts. Three, there is a reason - in story reason - why Aya is not in fact Aya at all.
 

CoolDemon

X will never be Y
This... is a really bad example to use. I can't begin to tell you how bad.

Okay, yes I can. For one, 3rd Birthday is a direct continuation of the same storyline. For two, fans complain extensively how very Not-Aya Aya acts. Three, there is a reason - in story reason - why Aya is not in fact Aya at all.
I have said before that people accept DMC 2, 3 and 4 characters as Dante because they preserve alot of what DMC 1 Dante's character.

Bad example perhaps with Aya Brea, but not so bad considering physically she looks very much like Aya.

I liked Parasite Eve 2 but can't bother with the reboot. It looks boring. And i liked the poorer graphics of Parasite Eve 2 compared to new graphics in Parasite Eve 3rd Birthday.
In Parasite Eve 2 Aya looked less anime like.
 

Ana

Well-known Member
I have said before that people accept DMC 2, 3 and 4 characters as Dante because they preserve alot of what DMC 1 Dante's character.

Bad example perhaps with Aya Brea, but not so bad considering physically she looks very much like Aya.

I liked Parasite Eve 2 but can't bother with the reboot. It looks boring. And i liked the poorer graphics of Parasite Eve 2 compared to new graphics in Parasite Eve 3rd Birthday.
In Parasite Eve 2 Aya looked less anime like.

That's the great betrayal here! She looks like Aya, but she acts like a scared little girl and a complete doormat! Imagine if Dante looked like Dante but acted like... like... Shinji Ikari!

DmC... well, I dunno if new Dante acts like old Dante (yet).
 

CoolDemon

X will never be Y
That's the great betrayal here! She looks like Aya, but she acts like a scared little girl and a complete doormat! Imagine if Dante looked like Dante but acted like... like... Shinji Ikari!

DmC... well, I dunno if new Dante acts like old Dante (yet).
I wonder if the people doing third birthday is same as one doing Parasite eve 1 and 2?
I really hate when characters are changed or not portrayed as they are in the beginning without any logical explanation.

Also the sight of Aya in wedding dress made me think "Is this Aya?" - looked very small and weird.
 

Ana

Well-known Member
I wonder if the people doing third birthday is same as one doing Parasite eve 1 and 2?
I really hate when characters are changed or not portrayed as they are in the beginning without any logical explanation.

Also the sight of Aya in wedding dress made me think "Is this Aya?" - looked very small and weird.

If I remember correctly, they're not the same. 3rd birthday was outsourced to another group.

The explanation given is that Aya has amnesia after a traumatic event (shoot out at her wedding, the apocalypse, etc.), but the real explanation is even more amazing... The irony is that wedding dress Aya, when we finally see her (late, late in the game) actually acts like Aya - strong, brave, protective and doesn't take **** from anyone, even when she's bleeding out. It's actually quite cool in its own way... which makes her behavior the rest of the game feel even more like a betrayal...

(Mind you, it's not just Aya. Everyone acts absolutely crazy. What they did to Maeda.... uh, wow. Creepy pervert is too mild a term.)

(And why are there no spoiler tags on this site?)
 

CoolDemon

X will never be Y
If I remember correctly, they're not the same. 3rd birthday was outsourced to another group.

The explanation given is that Aya has amnesia after a traumatic event (shoot out at her wedding, the apocalypse, etc.), but the real explanation is even more amazing... The irony is that wedding dress Aya, when we finally see her (late, late in the game) actually acts like Aya - strong, brave, protective and doesn't take **** from anyone, even when she's bleeding out. It's actually quite cool in its own way... which makes her behavior the rest of the game feel even more like a betrayal...

(Mind you, it's not just Aya. Everyone acts absolutely crazy. What they did to Maeda.... uh, wow. Creepy pervert is too mild a term.)

(And why are there no spoiler tags on this site?)
And that's a reason why the title of the thread i made in DMC General Discussion "Why Change is bad".
All the designers who have had signficant role in a game's success should be there when sequels are made. Because they know the game.

is No.9 in Third Birthday? I loved that guy.
 

Ana

Well-known Member
And that's a reason why the title of the thread i made in DMC General Discussion "Why Change is bad".
All the designers who have had signficant role in a game's success should be there when sequels are made. Because they know the game.

is No.9 in Third Birthday? I loved that guy.

Nah, No.9 totally died at the end of 2 (I think...). In 3rd, there's Aya (kinda), Eve, Kyle, Maeda. ...And that's it, except for the new characters, none of who you can really get attached to.

I'm not necessarily against new people working on a title, as long as they try to stay true to the original at the core. That's what's really frustrating in 3rd Birthday. When we finally see the real Aya, she acts quite a bit like Aya, really. It seems like the director/producer just didn't want her, that's all. So he came up with a convoluted explanation why Aya didn't act like Aya anymore.

He had a character he wanted to make, and he shoe-horned the plot to explain how it happened. The fact that the ending basically resets the end of the world plot, but with the new Aya instead... well, that's just the final nail in the coffin.
 

CoolDemon

X will never be Y
Nah, No.9 totally died at the end of 2 (I think...). In 3rd, there's Aya (kinda), Eve, Kyle, Maeda. ...And that's it, except for the new characters, none of who you can really get attached to.

I'm not necessarily against new people working on a title, as long as they try to stay true to the original at the core. That's what's really frustrating in 3rd Birthday. When we finally see the real Aya, she acts quite a bit like Aya, really. It seems like the director/producer just didn't want her, that's all. So he came up with a convoluted explanation why Aya didn't act like Aya anymore.

He had a character he wanted to make, and he shoe-horned the plot to explain how it happened. The fact that the ending basically resets the end of the world plot, but with the new Aya instead... well, that's just the final nail in the coffin.
If new designers take over a work they are prone to bad work. New ideas in a game is good but you must have a clear vision of what makes a game great.
Let's take DMC for example. After DMC 1 Dante and the story went down the drain. And it seems it's because Hideki left Capcom because in Bayonetta you see alot of DMC stuff.

Someone said "Eva" the mother of Dante may have been a witch (which is a good theory), and guess what Bayonetta is about? Witches.
And new designers often tend to do what they want with a established character. They will make a story "HE or she became like this because X" just like you said.

I have a foundation for a character of mine. And i am working on ideas for him.
But let's say if i make the game i want with main character that i have thought out. But then i don't get to make the sequel because i leave the company or something like that.
Then the ideas that i have had ready for the sequel would go down the drain.
 

Ana

Well-known Member
If new designers take over a work they are prone to bad work. New ideas in a game is good but you must have a clear vision of what makes a game great.
Let's take DMC for example. After DMC 1 Dante and the story went down the drain. And it seems it's because Hideki left Capcom because in Bayonetta you see alot of DMC stuff.

Someone said "Eva" the mother of Dante may have been a witch (which is a good theory), and guess what Bayonetta is about? Witches.
And new designers often tend to do what they want with a established character. They will make a story "HE or she became like this because X" just like you said.

I have a foundation for a character of mine. And i am working on ideas for him.
But let's say if i make the game i want with main character that i have thought out. But then i don't get to make the sequel because i leave the company or something like that.
Then the ideas that i have had ready for the sequel would go down the drain.

I didn't like Bayonetta at all, so... :/ I don't feel like that's a great loss. Having the same director on board doesn't really guarantee success. Look at Castlevania. They had Iga all the way, but the series still stagnated.

DMC... well, I feel like you can clearly trace the path of what went wrong. I remember hearing a theory how DMC2 was originally meant to be an entirely different game, about Lucia, which got cannibalized into a DMC game. They understood that DMC1's story was over and tried to start a new chapter, but the effort was totally half-assed on all fronts (story, gameplay, you name it).

Seeing the failure, they tried to go back to the roots, but they went too far in using only existing ideas. So we got a prequel, with a first novel's notion of Vergil, the second novel's style of heroine, and a younger Dante with his "coolness" exaggerated.

But Dante's story was basically over after this. So what to do? A traditional passing of the torch story. So they made a new character who was like Dante, but not. (I like Nero, really. But there's no point in denying this. Actually, I think Nero acts quite a bit like 1Dante...) Meanwhile, they kept the exaggerated Dante of 3, but made him older. The problem was, they didn't really set up or explain anything that happened, so fans were left with a whole lot of confusion.

DMC isn't a long series, so it feels like it never really found it's stride to start with. We have the Original, a failure, a prequel, and just one actual sequel that is filled with weird plotholes.
 

KenKen

Gorram Browncoat
With all this said,
If DmC gets a sequel, I REALLY hope Capcom doesn't make it themselves.
The good thing about this game is that there are two companies working in harmony to produce something good.
 

ROCKMAN X

Keyser Söze
I wonder if the people doing third birthday is same as one doing Parasite eve 1 and 2?
I really hate when characters are changed or not portrayed as they are in the beginning without any logical explanation.

Also the sight of Aya in wedding dress made me think "Is this Aya?" - looked very small and weird.

Oh i never played the ps1 titles and i've got this 3rd b'day for psp and was just wondering how weak and pathetic she is i don't really enjoy playing as weak that game's main flaw was that so was she like jill valentine in pseve1.2 ?
 

Ana

Well-known Member
Oh i never played the ps1 titles and i've got this 3rd b'day for psp and was just wondering how weak and pathetic she is i don't really enjoy playing as weak that game's main flaw was that so was she like jill valentine in pseve1.2 ?

Well, PE 1 and 2 weren't really heavy on character development, but I'd say Aya fell pretty squarely in the role of badass asskicker. She was a cop in the first game and had that "zombie apocalypse survivor" flavor to her (despite having her own special powers). In 2, she had some angst about being no longer an ordinary human, but continued to kick ass as part of a special FBI squad. She certainly wasn't afraid to tell people to shove it either. I guess she had a very pragmatic no-nonsense personality overall.

Aya in 3... I perpetually felt like everyone was bullying her. It was... disconcerting. You know the parts in 3 where she remembers Eve and decides to protect her? The parts where she seems to grow a backbone? That's kinda what Aya was like in first two games.
 

ROCKMAN X

Keyser Söze
Well, PE 1 and 2 weren't really heavy on character development, but I'd say Aya fell pretty squarely in the role of badass asskicker. She was a cop in the first game and had that "zombie apocalypse survivor" flavor to her (despite having her own special powers). In 2, she had some angst about being no longer an ordinary human, but continued to kick ass as part of a special FBI squad. She certainly wasn't afraid to tell people to shove it either. I guess she had a very pragmatic no-nonsense personality overall.

Aya in 3... I perpetually felt like everyone was bullying her. It was... disconcerting. You know the parts in 3 where she remembers Eve and decides to protect her? The parts where she seems to grow a backbone? That's kinda what Aya was like in first two games.

I was talking about her whole "suffering" kind of personality she seems so weak and unwilling to anything but you still are doing the missions and seriously can't they even provide her a pair of jeans and top ? personally i hate playing a character who is "unwilling" to do the task he/she is doing the game and i think this is the very first instance happened to me i got this in exchange of syphonfilter this as a psp game this is perfect but the main character is pitiful
 

Ana

Well-known Member
I was talking about her whole "suffering" kind of personality she seems so weak and unwilling to anything but you still are doing the missions and seriously can't they even provide her a pair of jeans and top ? personally i hate playing a character who is "unwilling" to do the task he/she is doing the game and i think this is the very first instance happened to me i got this in exchange of syphonfilter this as a psp game this is perfect but the main character is pitiful
Yeah... Aya in 1 & 2 wasn't like that. Even if she didn't like it, she had a much more... stoic personality. Like I said, she was a cop, so there was a "duty" thing going too. Sort of, this needs to get done, so I'm gonna do it, and that's that. Honestly, I wouldn't say she had a deep personality back then, but she gave the impression of being very tough-as-nails.

What bothered me even more was all the suggestive moaning and "hmm"ing and "ah"ing that went on in 3rd birthday. Even just looking at things made her moan! It was too much.
 

ROCKMAN X

Keyser Söze
What bothered me even more was all the suggestive moaning and "hmm"ing and "ah"ing that went on in 3rd birthday. Even just looking at things made her moan! It was too much.

Yes ! that's what i am talking about she was behaving like a baby minded forced to do these hectic missions
 
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