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Violence

ZeroLove

Well-known Member
I don't really care about it, to be honest. Violence in games or movies or other fiction don't bother me that much really. I guess I have learned in a very young age that there is a difference in violence in fictional media and violence in the real world. No one in real life is harmed by violence in fiction. They may get offended or such, but no one is truly hurt.

The game says it contains violence and other mature content. If you get offended by such, don't play it. Going on a witch hunt against them just makes you the fool for others to laugh at.
 

V

Oldschool DMC fan
Q: "Which is more offensive - rape or execution?"

I've gotta answer two ways with this.

In the media's/public's view (at least in my country), it's got to be sexual violence, because everyone (including a lot of little kids) are way more desensitized now to the idea of fictional violence than they even are with normal sex, let alone rape. Evidenced by the government here recently banning many kinds of violent pornography, getting het up about Human Centipede 2 and so on. It's obvious even though there might still be controversy over a brutal or hard hitting execution scene in a game or movie, some violence or murder in is par for the course in Hollywood action films, thrillers, books, etc. and we all know that stuff shown on TV can be violent or insinuate violence, but God forbid someone shows a tit before 9 p.m. ...

What do I personally think - I think it's all just violence, and while fictional or pretend violence and rape doesn't offend me, real violence and real rape does. I'm with the guy in this video. If you know it's a game and you can handle it, fine.

But the context the violence is performed in matters (which is why Manhunt 2 got banned here). It's annoying for people like me who like games and don't have much beef with the violence in them, that we have to censor because there are idiots out there, but you have to draw a line somewhere - between 'good' violence like heroic bloodshed, revenge, etc. and 'bad' violence in context - it is after all what makes the difference between 'good guys' and 'bad guys' in peoples' minds. Taste isn't something you can account for, but most people probably don't enjoy murder and death without an appropriate context. A LOT of people appreciate violence & death in their entertainment, whether it's chainsawing aliens' faces or watching TV shows about serial killers or reading books about old women who solve murder cases, but there has to be a 'decent' reason for a hero to go around killing other people or characters. What Duke said - doesn't offend me because I always thought DN was trying to be tongue in cheek offensive and misogynist - but as a hero character, it's a pretty ****ty thing for him to say, even if they are doomed. Overall it's just crass in DN and I kinda expect that 'sort' of stuff in it, because it's not trying to be highbrow. In DmC, I'm not sure what all the fuss is about - you're a demon killer and she's a demon. I assume it's because she looks humanoid people feel sorry for her, and if she looked like a big bloated louse or something, I figure almost nobody would have issue with her being slaughtered. The closer something looks to a human the more offended people get, and she does look like a woman, and it seems a lot of people don't like seeing women get shot (why should they be happier that men are being shot??). As someone who advocates equality, I've got no problem with seeing her shot, I'm not going to be upset she was just because of her sex.

I play Devil May Cry games to kill the demons, so I don't have much issue with it. I'm confused by the scene in a sense - is it trying to get us to care about her or show the world in more than black and white? I suppose old Dante had compassion for some demons because of what they looked like too - but generally he lives to murder demons for revenge, and if you have a problem with a demon getting killed in a game which is all about killing demons, then wtf I don't even.

It is the unwritten 'hero' character rule not to kill someone who is defenseless, or has already been defeated and learned their lesson, or to literally stab someone in the back, etc. and to me the scene just serves to show that Vergil is totally obviously not the 'hero' type.
 

ZeroLove

Well-known Member
All in all, it is to show us that Vergil is a b*stard who will do anything to get rid of the demon threat... ANYTHING! Even if it means to kill defenseless and potential good demons.
 

V

Oldschool DMC fan
All in all, it is to show us that Vergil is a b*stard who will do anything to get rid of the demon threat... ANYTHING! Even if it means to kill defenseless and potential good demons.
That's always been his problem, losing sight of his humanity in pursuit of goals. Since having some humanity is the difference between 'good guys' and 'bad guys'...

But yeah. The world of DMC to me has always been intended morally ambiguous, even with non ambiguous ideas like 'demons' and 'evil' beings. I don't think DMC deals with demons in a way that you would expect on the face of it, Sparda is a 'good' demon, Dante is a 'good' demon (all from a human perspective), Trish is a bad demon turned good, Vergil a human turned evil... lots of shifting between the boundaries. They took a black and white concept and made it shades of grey (which I think you should do if you want interesting stories or characters... nobody can properly relate to 100% 'pure good' or 'pure evil' character).
 

ZeroLove

Well-known Member
That's always been his problem, losing sight of his humanity in pursuit of goals. Since having some humanity is the difference between 'good guys' and 'bad guys'...

But yeah. The world of DMC to me has always been intended morally ambiguous, even with non ambiguous ideas like 'demons' and 'evil' beings. I don't think DMC deals with demons in a way that you would expect on the face of it, Sparda is a 'good' demon, Dante is a 'good' demon (all from a human perspective), Trish is a bad demon turned good, Vergil a human turned evil... lots of shifting between the boundaries. They took a black and white concept and made it shades of grey (which I think you should do if you want interesting stories or characters... nobody can properly relate to 100% 'pure good' or 'pure evil' character).

Try and convince that to the people who keep ranting about these things.
 

Sieghart

"Plough the lilies"
It surprises me that there are people who are actually complaining in that scene in "The Trade". I also agree to the guy of why on earth there is almost no controversy about that scene in Duke Nukem Forever even though it's more cringe worthy or disgusting, but when it comes to DmC and that execution of lilith
tumblr_lvalzuqqHf1r489flo1_500.gif
 

LeoXCV

Single life for life
It's almost like some people on both the inside of gaming and outside are finding excuses to either hate on a specific game or just hate on gaming in general.
 

Lionheart

Solid Ocelot
That's always been his problem, losing sight of his humanity in pursuit of goals. Since having some humanity is the difference between 'good guys' and 'bad guys'...

But yeah. The world of DMC to me has always been intended morally ambiguous, even with non ambiguous ideas like 'demons' and 'evil' beings. I don't think DMC deals with demons in a way that you would expect on the face of it, Sparda is a 'good' demon, Dante is a 'good' demon (all from a human perspective), Trish is a bad demon turned good, Vergil a human turned evil... lots of shifting between the boundaries. They took a black and white concept and made it shades of grey (which I think you should do if you want interesting stories or characters... nobody can properly relate to 100% 'pure good' or 'pure evil' character).

You made a small mistake there. You meant ''Vergil, a demon turned evil'', not human.
 

V

Oldschool DMC fan
Technically he's both but I guess I said human because that was what he was trying to leave behind, or saw himself as above. (Talking about old Vergil)
 

Morgan

Well-known Member
Premium
Xen-Ace 2021
The guy mentioned that Dante later taunted Mundus about the execution, but he missed the part where Dante not only didn't have a personal hand in that, he was clearly uncomfortable with the subject and wanted to avoid using that as bait. Dante was forced to take sole credit in something he didn't intend to happen because Mundus reacted calmly to his honest answer when the plan was to "Get. Him. ****ed." and he couldn't just rat Vergil out and say "It wasn't me, my brother shot your baby" so he had to lie about it. Dante felt uncomfortable and thought the act was "wrong", Vergil looked like he was enjoying it. There's a difference.
 

V

Oldschool DMC fan
I guess I find it odd people want to differentiate and say the Lillith scene was bad, or offended their sensibilities because she looks like a woman and is pregnant, while all the time they are playing as Dante, who is a violent guy, in all his incarnations. It's one of the reasons I like Dante and his situation as a character - not because he's violent and kills demons per se, but because it's morally paradoxical. Dante is murderously prejudiced against demons because of his past and his situation, and because demons want to attack him - but he's half demon himself, so he he's a murderer of his own kind, or his father's kind. From a demon perspective, Dante is a vicious, merciless bastard, no better than any other demon, the only way we can decently empathize with him is through a need for revenge, or to protect the weak. But he does it in a way that makes him an anti-hero or only on the edge of 'hero', in my view. Dante at least to me was appealing because he had that element of madness, or demonic bloodlust in him, which comes out in some situations. If you knew a guy like Dante in reality, you'd give him a wide berth.

So yeah, playing as this executor of demons but worrying about violence against demons is... weird.
 

aoshi

Well-known Member
I find stripping nevan of her clothes(bats) with devil arms more disturbing than this vergil act.At one point, when she is competely.....ahem.....and she fell to the ground......I felt remorse and let her jus kill me. :troll:
 

LeoXCV

Single life for life
I find stripping nevan of her clothes(bats) with devil arms more disturbing than this vergil act.At one point, when she is competely.....ahem.....and she fell to the ground......I felt remorse and let her jus kill me. :troll:
You must be considered a saint to all AI in games
 

Morgan

Well-known Member
Premium
Xen-Ace 2021
I find stripping nevan of her clothes(bats) with devil arms more disturbing than this vergil act.At one point, when she is competely.....ahem.....and she fell to the ground......I felt remorse and let her jus kill me. :troll:
Did you let her kiss you to death? That's the best way to go out. :troll:
 

Loopy

Devil hunter in training
For me, this quote sums up the opinions on the violence issue (replace abortion with violence).
Kang: Abortions for all.
[crowd boos]
Kang: Very well, no abortions for anyone.
[crowd boos]
Kang: Hmm... Abortions for some, miniature American flags for others.
[crowd cheers and waves miniature flags]
 

Drake

Well-known Member
Yea that scene, watched and I think it was done by NT for shock value. Really doesn't make sense to me for Vergil to shoot her and put Kat, Dante and himself in more danger then they already were. I don't have a problem with violence in a games, movies or books. Just really thought what he did made no sense. I am glad some one made a thread about this, I also watched the violence in video games vid to.
 

EvilX-81

Well-known Member
Yea that scene, watched and I think it was done by NT for shock value. Really doesn't make sense to me for Vergil to shoot her and put Kat, Dante and himself in more danger then they already were. I don't have a problem with violence in a games, movies or books. Just really thought what he did made no sense. I am glad some one made a thread about this, I also watched the violence in video games vid to.

I think so too, though they could have pulled it off in context better if they made an extra big deal about how tough it would be to get Mundus out of his tower, that he has near everything he needs inside, that it's the location of his source of power, and that he pretty much never leaves the tower because he has nearly no reason to do so.

...Basically something along the path of this;

Vergil: Brother, I need you to go to Mundas, and lure him away from the gate. Remember that he is intractable; an immortal who has suffered and perpetrated every depravity imaginable, with patience that shames mountains. To get his attention, to even warrant a single thought from him, you will have to be absolutely intolerable, far beyond the comprehension of mortal men. You will have to be, the most annoying cumstain in the entire universe. Can you do it?

Dante: lol ur hair is faggy
 

ChaserTech

Well-known Member
lol I actually chatted with the guy who uploaded that vid. He's pretty cool.

But I do agree with him about violence. Violence is violence. Both the scenes with Duke Nukem and DmC were both very violent and there's no real reason to complain about the "Abortion" scene when there are much worse scenes in other games out there.

In my opinion, I think the main reason why people felt so angry about the scene was the tone of it. You have Vergil, standing guard with his rifle as the trade is being processed. Lilith, who is now depicted as this defenseless and sad demon who is carrying a child. Not to mention she was forced against her will. (when she was already talking crap to Dante to begin with then shuts up when she's caught) Vergil becomes slightly impatient, shoots Lilith, everyone gasps, Lilith's sees what happens and starts crying, then Vergil shoots her in the head as well as giving off a faint smile. (I think?)

It had a tone like no other in the DMC universe. At least from what I've seen so far. It makes you feel bad for Lilith and angry at Vergil for committing the act. Kinda funny since I've seen worse violence just by playing Borderlands 1 and watching Darkness II (which has A LOT of violence).

All in all, I was a bit shocked when I saw the scene myself. Mainly for the tone of the story. I didn't rage about it but I was just angry at Vergil for doing so, since I honestly wanted the trade to be successful. lol
 

LeoXCV

Single life for life
The discussion is about violence on female characters. Lilith and that duke nukem stuff and nudity. How does that make me sensitive to all AI?
Actually it's more about violence being violence, not just specifically sexually related stuff, but all violence and how it's ignored a lot of the time.
 
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