True motive of the Order?

[rocketvergil]

So we know that the Order is led by vergil and is set upon fighting demons, but Does anyone else think that there is something fishy about them?

May be the order is actually run by angels, who use vergil as their representative and their reason to thwart demons is so that they can take control over human kind themselves.

Plus, Do you think there might be more main characters from the Order in this game or its sequels?

 

[majeh116]

I don't feel there is anything fishy about it. I believe everyone in the order is open to what they are fighting against and have a common goal that is shared. I think the issue will be that Vergil will be so ruthless in his pursuit of his goal he will risk becoming the very thing he is rebelling against.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Hard to say at this point. We'll really just have to wait for the full game to see.

 

[Slaythe]

Well, Nelo Angelo won't be around for sure, but I assume Vergil and Mundus need some sort of connexion.

I assume Vergil would be a "triple agent" of some sort. Sent by mundus to rule the Order, so he can destroy it from within, and earn Dante's trust, while he is actually trying to get rid of Mundus and take his place, because he thinks he can make the world a better place if he were in control.

I think Dante will save the order. Maybe Kat could be their new leader.

Its corruption will always be a problem though. But I don't see it as a bad thing, only the "thinking heads" can make it bad. People in it are probably innocent.

 

[m100t8s]

The Order characters are all Vergil clones... There's Vergil with the hat, And Vergil in the background of this forum , And Vergil in the DLC with the hair down, And Vergil with the mask and finally anti-hero Vergil who will fight Dante by the end of the game.







meanwhile Real Vergil is chillin with Nero and Dante in DMC5.

 

[Slaythe]

Oh if you're going like this, maybe Nero is just another Vergil !

Though since they all wear masks, and Vergil can "doppelgang" himself, would be a funny idea. But it's not the case.

 

[Jane Sweetbee]

I don't feel there is anything fishy about it. I believe everyone in the order is open to what they are fighting against and have a common goal that is shared. I think the issue will be that Vergil will be so ruthless in his pursuit of his goal he will risk becoming the very thing he is rebelling against.

Vergil is always undermined in the story in order for Dante's rise.

 

[majeh116]

Well, Nelo Angelo won't be around for sure, but I assume Vergil and Mundus need some sort of connexion.

I assume Vergil would be a "triple agent" of some sort. Sent by mundus to rule the Order, so he can destroy it from within, and earn Dante's trust, while he is actually trying to get rid of Mundus and take his place, because he thinks he can make the world a better place if he were in control.

I think Dante will save the order. Maybe Kat could be their new leader.

Its corruption will always be a problem though. But I don't see it as a bad thing, only the "thinking heads" can make it bad. People in it are probably innocent.

See I hate the theory that Mundus is a double agent for Mundus to destroy the order since Vergil STARTED the order in the first place. There is no destroying from within when he created it.

 

[Slaythe]

See I hate the theory that Mundus is a double agent for Mundus to destroy the order since Vergil STARTED the order in the first place. There is no destroying from within when he created it.

Simple. Just like the force unleashed plot. Vader made his apprentice believe he was hidden, and that he needed to create a rebel alliance, so they could destroy the emperor.

The only reason was to make the people willing AND able to do so, join together, so it would be easier to crush them all at once.

Also, Vergil always knew about Dante, and only waited until his order was properly established before looking for him. We don't know why, yet.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

That's a pretty big stretch :/ Vergil being hired by the demons he hates, and then using his amassed fortune to create the Order to subvert those demons, and then screwing over the Order and all its followers because he works for the demons? Or vice versa; Vergil uses his amassed fortune to fund the Order to subvert the demons, gets hired by the demons (he hates) to destroy the Order, and then backstabs the demons to end their reign.

Either way you slice it, it's an extremely vapid theory. There's only a few ways it would work, but doing so requires way more narrative than DmC has.

And just because twists make things interesting, doesn't mean everything needs one. There's already enough unanswered questions remaining about Vergil and the Order's motives to make an interesting enough narrative. Shoehorning a hackneyed double/triple agent in there for a twist would probably just ruin it, I think.

 

[Mister Z]

Yes, the whole "I'm working for the humans. Wait, I lied, I work for Mundus. No wait, I lied again, I work for myself" theories and whatnot seem like a very far stretch.

The way I speculate, all members of the Order are ordinary humans who have become aware of the demons' in the city and have a genuine desire to fight them back and defeat them under the lead of Vergil. It's Vergil himself who might be the fishy one on all this. I share the previously said idea that Vergil wants to overthrow Mundus and take his place so he can run the world and turn into his personal utopia, because he believes the world would be a better place if he has the power to protect it (which could make sense if they borrowed classic Vergil's guilt of not being able to save his mother when he was a kid), and by protect, of course, he means control it. Obviously, he doesn't say this to anyone, specially his own followers, because what they want is freedom from the demonic rulle, not a new ruler. He looks at his allies, including Dante and Kat, like mere tools for his ultimate goal, but keeps a friendly and sympathetic facade to gain their trust.

Or, alternatively, Vergil is really a nice guy from the start and he really wants to defeat the demons, but once he starts to gain access to the demons' power, he becomes corrupted by it and turns on humanity to become a new ruler.

Whichever scenario is likely (and not just the two I mentioned), I really doubt the members of the Order themselves have any mystery behind them, except maybe if part of the story involves one member being an undercover demon working for Mundus.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

I'd imagine they'll go that route - feeling the shortcomings of not being able to save his family, Vergil wants to gain control of the world so that he can protect it. It's the classic misunderstood villain, and if done correctly, it can really come out of nowhere, and can really work well for the narrative.

I've done it before in the past.

 

[Mister Z]

I'd imagine they'll go that route - feeling the shortcomings of not being able to save his family, Vergil wants to gain control of the world so that he can protect it. It's the classic misunderstood villain, and if done correctly, it can really come out of nowhere, and can really work well for the narrative.

But not too misunderstood. To work as a final antagonist, Vergil still needs to retain some sort of vilaineous trait, otherwise it's gonna make people hate Dante for stopping a more likely hero from saving the world. Vergil has a master plan, which he thinks he can save the world with, but it has to have a huge flaw on it, a big catch or needs to sacrifice something huge in order to be carried out. I.E., in order for the world to become a paradise, there must be a cataclysm first to cleanse it, human souls lose their free will and must obey Vergil's desires, etc. Something that Dante, and us as audience, must be in huge disagree of if we actually want to have a desire to fight him in game.

Additonally, it'd be interesting if Dante ended up being as the only person in the world who Vergil still cares for and in the end, when the world is at his hands, he asks Dante to join him and rule together. Dante, however, as understanding as the tried to be, sees Vergil as a traitor, a hypocrite, "you're doing more bad than good", "what would mother think if he saw you like this?", etc., and refuses to be part of his scheme. Vergil then goes all "brother, I thought you'd understand..." and proceeds to attack Dante, thus starting the inevitable battle between the two.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Well yeah, of course. there has to be a balance struck between misunderstanding and their flawed intentions. I'd imagine it might end up as some sort of free will thing, or even something as personal as Vergil wanting to gain that real ultimate power, and Dante afraid that he'll lose the last of his family.

 

[rocketvergil]

I still think angels are gonna come into the plot through the order

 

[Mister Z]

I still think angels are gonna come into the plot through the order

Still hard to figure how. Angels have never even been mentioned in the original DMCs and even now is still kinda hard to get used to the idea of angelic presence in the series. The way I see it, angels in the DmC universe are neutral forces, neither good nor bad, who, in order to mantain free will, don't meddle into human-demon affairs. Eva, however, was a rebelious angel, feeling love for a demon and trying to help humanity, etc., and thus banished into the human world and earning her bad reputation as a "whore".

Alternatively, demons might have grown too powerful and angels are unable to fight them back, so they're counting on Dante and/or Vergil to rid the world from them.

Either way, the idea of Eva being a fallen angel after feeling for Sparda sounds pretty plausible to me, and would be an interesting mirror to Sparda's situation of being banished for loving an angel and growing sympathy for humans.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

I wouldn't mind seeing Angels be part of something in the game. They were always absent in the classic series, and it saddened me, because Angels have always been really interesting to me. Bayonetta certainly didn't do them any justice, either :/

 

[asurai]

I wouldn't say Angels have always been absent from DMC. In DMC1 at least they certainly aren't. As Mundus is outright called an angel who fell from grace (aka. he was pretty much Lucifer). So they have always been there, it has just never really been explored one bit.

On-topic: I'm of the belief that it might not be a slow corruption for Vergil, but rather something is going to happen that stimulates a darker part of his personality that causes his "downfall". Potentially I imagine him falling from grace with the angels if they do have some association with, The Order. In one way or another though I do believe angels will probably be involved as we have seen so much of the demons in this, but yet we have been told about the angels playing a part and aside from Eva they have yet to play any crucial role in things.

 

[Alittleacorn]

“There something troubling you?”

A studious look was on Nephilim’s face, as if he was deep within his owns thoughts. This was a rare event for someone such as himself. Dante often kept a laid back attitude, except for when things got personal or required a level of seriousness. The thoughtful expression he had was solid enough to sink the Titanic and most the iceberg that hit it, which meant only one thing. Dante was thinking of something important.

“The plan…” he said after a while in a fragmented way, that made Kat spare a confused glance over at Vergil, who did the same. “I don’t quite follow you.”

“All this,” Dante shrugged, slightly raising his hands from his sides as to gesture out at their surroundings, which was headquarters. “After we’ve killed Mundus and all the scumbags working for him, then what? What’s the grand plan for the Order after that?”

“We make the world a better place, of course.” Kat said.

Dante snorted. “No ****, but how?”

“By purging humanity of its filth and building a new world from the ashes, that's how,” said a certain fashionable hat wielding Vergil, as he stood proudly by. “We kill Mundus, I stab you through the chest Dante, when you’re not looking; then once I’ve taken my place as king and ruler and have the Order functioning as the new government, everyone will bow to me and only those worthy of living will be allowed to do so, it’s that simple.”

Kat stared at her boss with all color drained from her face, as if she had just drunken a carton of 9 millennia old milk. Dante meanwhile, wore the dumbstruck expression of someone who had just witnessed an intoxicated Poison parading around in horse’s head, pretending to be a fish.

He was the only one between them fully capable of forming a response.

‘Well, that escalated quickly...’

----

My theory on the Order's motives :lol:

 

[crush]

Did everyone forget Vergil's motives are also vengence, because his foster parents were killed much like Eva?
He had his parents killed twice and his brother nowhere to be seen. And he got his invention turned into a monstority.
I can't see Vergil leaving the order or breaking it. He has too many reasons to fight the demons possibly more than Dante.
Possibly he could be pushed to a brink because he seems to have a sort of vain charactistic and stiff kindness that the orginal had.