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Will There Ever Be Another 'Devil May Cry 3-Type' Game?

Demi-fiend

Metempsychosis
Supporter 2014
Not including Bayonetta 2, I mean. That game won't even have Royalguard.

What I would like is another game, one that's a lot like Darksiders (their world layout was better than the one in Darksiders II, in my opinion), but with a vastly improved combat system. Even the sequel, while having better mechanics, still pales in comparison to DMC3.

Will the 'lightning-in-the-bottle' ever be captured again?

Only Time Will Tell. :steve:

And I put this in the General Gaming Section due to the fact that any new IP could come along and compete with DMC3. It's possible, but not probable. We have a long road ahead of us.
 

darkslayer13

Enma Katana no Kami
i don't see why the absence of a DMC gameplay mechanic would prevent a non-DMC game from being considered as good as DMC3. by removing Bayonetta 2 from consideration you are ignoring the only game we know is getting made that has a chance to be better. following your restriction their are a few hypothetical games that could be made that have a chance but we don't know if any of them will get made. DMC5 ( it's the next odd numbered DMC game so it would probably be an improvement), DmC2 (less likely to be better but it could be) and Bayonetta 3 ( you didn't say this one couldn't be included)

there might be a few other series that have a chance at making a better action game but i haven't played them yet.
 

Demi-fiend

Metempsychosis
Supporter 2014
by removing Bayonetta 2 from consideration you are ignoring the only game we know is getting made that has a chance to be better.

and Bayonetta 3 ( you didn't say this one couldn't be included)
Look DS. Even Darksiders II had a Royal Guard-like mechanic (in the form of a wrist gauntlet). That was actually a feature that neither Bayonetta 1 nor it's sequel has.

Witch Time doesn't count. That would be like counting Demon Dodge.

I would have counted B1 and B2 if it had had RG. But they don't. I checked. If B3 has it, then I'll include it, no problem. Besides, who says that B3 will even see the light of day? B2 was almost never released to begin with.

There's just no excuse for the creator of DMC1 to not have RG in his games. None at all, imho.
 

darkslayer13

Enma Katana no Kami
Look DS. Even Darksiders II had a Royal Guard-like mechanic (in the form of a wrist gauntlet). That was actually a feature that neither Bayonetta 1 nor it's sequel has.

Witch Time doesn't count. That would be like counting Demon Dodge.

I would have counted B1 and B2 if it had had RG. But they don't. I checked. If B3 has it, then I'll include it, no problem. Besides, who says that B3 will even see the light of day? B2 was almost never released to begin with.

There's just no excuse for the creator of DMC1 to not have RG in his games. None at all, imho.
1. it doesn't matter if a charicter avoids attacks by blocking or dodging a timing based defense is a timing based defense and having one focused on evasion does not make a game lower quality than one focused on blocking.

2. if you absolutely have to block attacks instead of dodging for some odd reason. then Bayonetta has something for you.
http://bayonetta.wikia.com/wiki/Accessories :
Moon of Mahaa-Kalaa
Unlock: Purchase at the Gates of Hell for 200,000 halos.
Description: Braces blessed by Shiva, the Indian goddess of destruction. Said to have been crafted by the witch Yaksi while serving the Vijayanagara Empire, legend states the braces have the power to repel an enemy's attack. Yaksi was purported to have been invincible, as her mastery of this technique allowed her to nullify any attack, no matter what the strength.
Activation: Push the left joystick in the direction of the incoming attack.
Effect: Causes Bayonetta to form a circular glyph of energy in front of her with the symbol of the Umbra Witches that repels an incoming attack. This usually staggers the attacker, knocking them off balance for a moment. If the joystick is pressed in the direction of the attack the second they are hit, Bayonetta will not only parry the enemy attack, but counter-attack with an action that is unique to each weapon, while also entering Witch Time. This accessory is deemed by players to be by far the most useful, and mastery of it's effect can protect the player from even the most brutal onslaughts.
3. DMC1 didn't have royal guard so there is no reason why it's creator should be expected to include it in his later games
4. the point of listing DMC5, DmC2 and Bayonetta 3 was that there are no announced games other than Bayonetta 2 that have a chance so i had to list games that were only theoretically possible that would have a chance if they got made.
 

Shin Muramasa

Metallic Stranger
I intend to, now that I realize no game out there will probably ever have a Royal Guard feature.

A lot of games have a timed defense system like the ones already mentioned, except no games - that I can think of - have a defense system like Devil May Cry 3's and 4's.

Darksiders 1, God of War, and Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance all have guard systems that allow you to reduce damage if timed normally, but if timed perfectly, allow you to counter or redirect attacks. War and Kratos could redirect and counter attacks with perfect guards, while Raiden could only counter with perfect guards, otherwise reduced damage, deflections, and "turtle-ing" happens with normal guards.

Bayonetta, Darksiders 2, and DmC: Devil May Cry all have evades in place of guards that gave you benefits; Bayonetta has guards too, when unlocked. In Bayonetta, you get to slow down time through Witch Time. In Darksiders 2, Death would summon his Reaper form to counter attack; it has a really strict timing, that or the game is too hectic or the combat wasn't "appropriate" for the monsters. In DmC, Dante has an Angel dodge and Vergil's Tricks that covered distance and the (OP) Demon dodge that slowed down time during the animation and gave a damage boost.

Fighting games all have defense systems, which is a given. It depends on the series, though. Some series allow infinite guards, chipping, guard gauges, etc, but all series have unblockable attacks to prevent stalemates. Ninja Gaiden borrows Dead or Alive's combat system - the same could be said about Devil May Cry (and other Capcom games) and Street Fighter - so Ryu has a powerful guard system and counter is a separate command. As OP and important as guarding is in Ninja Gaiden, enemies have unblockable attacks, like grabs, and prevent the guard from making the game too easy; once you stop guarding, you either have to attack, counter, or evade unless you want to take damage.

The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword, Demon's and Dark Souls, Kingdom Hearts, and the upcoming Final Fantasy XV and Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII have defense systems as well. Skyward Sword has a guard system similar to Darksiders 1, God of War, and MGR: Revengeance, where you guard at the right moment and stun the enemy allowing for a counterattack. Why is it here instead? Well, it uses motion control, making it a little different compared to the others. From Software's games have an important defense system with stamina. Guarding makes a huge difference in a series with a default difficulty of hard. While parrying and riposte when mastered play a vital role in quickly taking out dangerous foes parry-able and/or riposte-able. It's a slower and more risky system of defense compared to other games. Kingdom Hearts has a simple defense system. Time it right and all following attacks are guarded against. The issue is that some characters, especially in earlier games, are sluggish and countering might not happen.

Final Fantasy XV is a game that holds many promises and has a lot of hype. Nobody knows what's going to happen. In Final Fantasy XIII, one ability, Vendetta, functioned similarly to Royal Guard where characters "take" damage and return it multiplied percentage-wise. Screenshots and videos show that you can guard and evade in FFXV, but whether or not a more complex defense system will appear is up to Square Enix. Who knows, maybe Vendetta or a Royal Guard-like system will appear in FFXV. It's not out of question since FFXV aims to have a spectacular combat system. The last entry to the Lightning Saga or Final Fantasy XIII trilogy features are more action-based combat system. A recent video showed that timed evades and guards yield benefits like staggering, stuns, etc. It's a little weird considering that Final Fantasy XIII is more turn-based RPG than action RPG even though Lightning Returns is something of an action, turn-based RPG.

So games have defense systems, but DMC3 and 4 have a defense system that isn't instantly gratifying. All the above have defense system that when performed correctly allow you to reap the benefits immediately. Royal Guard doesn't do that; power is built up the more attacks are successfully guarded. Releasing right after an attack will only do a fraction of what Royal Guard is capable of. Lore-wise, Dante builds up anger after every hit, guarded or not. That anger is transferred into energy which he can release for a powerful attack. It's not slow, however, but it takes time compared to other games and their defense systems.

In many cases, it's probably better to evade and/or parry and then counter rather than guard. Guarding means you'll take damage and be worn out. Evading just puts you out of the way of danger, but enemies can still follow-up and attack, though maybe not as easy against a guard. Parrying can force an attack in another direction, making follow-up attacks much more difficult than against an evade or guard. Even though games aren't usually super-realistic, something might need to explain why a guard is much more effective than evading and parrying, like an electric shield or something. Royal Guard does that by having Dante's anger as fuel and games having perfect guards to negate all damage.

A character who's full of anger and hatred or easily angered could make a fairly acceptable answer as to why guarding is much more effective. Kind of like Asura, except that Asura's Wrath was a really weird game/anime. Guard, guard, and then *BOOM*! Explosive angry counter. Or a character who can literally absorb kinetic energy and store it for future use would make for an awesome mechanic - future protagonist's power for future inFAMOUS game idea here! Basically, Royal Guard could return in unusual and unexpected ways from unexpected developers.
 

Demi-fiend

Metempsychosis
Supporter 2014
Yeah, but I still prefer RG's system though. It made me feel like I was fencing. Besides, at least Darksiders II had a Guard (and Release) system that was similar, but not nearly as good, as DMC3's.

I'm talking about activating the wrist gauntlet after the first boss by pressing Circle and Triangle (Y&B) at the same time.
 

Shin Muramasa

Metallic Stranger
Yeah, but I still prefer RG's system though. It made me feel like I was fencing. Besides, at least Darksiders II had a Guard (and Release) system that was similar, but not nearly as good, as DMC3's.

I'm talking about activating the wrist gauntlet after the first boss by pressing Circle and Triangle (Y&B) at the same time.

I'd rather see something like Canne de combat than the usual fencing we've seen. Or Gerard Thibault d'Anver's fencing style in future games. We've seen the usual taekwondo, karate, wushu, boxing, wrestling, judo, akido, kendo, fencing, etc., a lot in the past along with recent games featuring more of Muay Thai, MMA-based combat, Brazilian Jiu-jistsu, Capoeira, and Eskrima. I would love to see more of Sambo, Savate, Krav Maga - only Sam Fisher uses Krav Maga so far -, Kyoukushin karate, Shotokan karate, etc.

Canne de combat:

The issue with weapon-based martial arts is that sparring and competitions are difficult, to say the least. Point systems make sense since knock-outs would be extremely dangerous with weapons. Blunt instruments can result in deadly and sometimes unnoticeable, internal trauma. This is kind of why kendo, fencing, etc. seem washed out and ineffective since they're no longer in more "dangerous"/real-world situations. Another reason why wushu can be considered more of a dance nowadays than "martial" art. Eskrima have locks, but that would make the objective to force your opponent to tap out rather than make full use of locks, strikes, throws, and hand-to-hand combat. Maybe the lipstick method could work, but counting hits rather than technique and lethal blows... Yeah, competitions are complicated.

Anyway, Savate and Canne de combat share a history together. In fact, Savate and Canne de combat could be considered the same martial art except for one difference: weapon and hands. Savate in a sense is unarmed Canne de combat and Canne de combat is armed Savate. The footwork, which is magnificent by the way, are shared between the two along with kicks, which might not be permitted during competitions, I don't know. They're such fluid, beautiful, and swift martial arts that it's a shame they're not featured in many media; Spike Spiegel from Cowboy Bebop apparently uses Savate.

Spike Spiegel, Cowboy Bebop:

Savate:
 

Demi-fiend

Metempsychosis
Supporter 2014
I'm quite familiar with the style through Bartitsu, a blend of Koryu Bujutsu (also known as Japanese Ju-jutsu) boxing, and savate.


Bartitsu is actually a real style and is still being taught today. Ju-jutsu was already a hybrid style, so this is a hybrid style combined with another one, as you'll see in the vid above.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartitsu

One of the combat designers for DMC3 (who worked on UMvC3 recently hence Vergil OP in that game), and Itsuno are still around so it is possible they could scrape together a good team and make DMC5.
Good. Best news I've heard all day.
 

Shin Muramasa

Metallic Stranger
I'm quite familiar with the style through Bartitsu, a blend of Koryu Bujutsu (also known as Japanese Ju-jutsu) boxing, and savate.


Bartitsu is actually a real style and is still being taught today. Ju-jutsu was already a hybrid style, so this is a hybrid style combined with another one, as you'll see in the vid above.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartitsu


Good. Best news I've heard all day.

Yay, for martial arts being forgotten... No, yay for anything being forgotten from the course of mankind's history.
 
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