The right to protest at funerals?

[Meg]

So for those that don't know, the Westboro Baptist Church has made a habit of protesting at funerals, most notable fallen US soldiers but they've also decided to protest Elizabeth Taylor's as well.

The Supreme Court has ruled 8-1 in the church's favor to allow them to protest.

Here's some links;

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Supr...ry-funeral-protests-supreme/story?id=13039045

http://newsfeed.time.com/2011/03/23...h-plans-to-protest-elizabeth-taylors-funeral/

Oh, and here's an amazing pic I found of my new hero;
http://blog.georgetownvoice.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/westboro-signs.jpg

So, what are your thoughts on this? Should they be protected under the First Amendment? If so why/why not? Should a line be drawn as to what can be protested/where it can be?

 

[Mr Anderson]

I think that is disrespectful to the deceased forget the law it's just mean and disrespectful. Someone died and they are being for and then some people come up yelling and protesting. How would those protesters feel if one of them had lost a near and dear family member and a bunch of people protested right there at their funeral I wonder how fair and lawful that would be on the recieving end.

 

[Dante's Stalker]

I agree with DanteDude 100%.
What people should do to retaliate is go to those people's funerals and swing around signs saying 'there is no afterlife', 'he's not in heaven, he's dead', 'your child is not an angel, it's a body in a coffin' and see how they like it.
Not that it would be the right thing to do, but sometimes you have to get low down and dirty with that type of 'Christian' so they can experience exactly what you do.

"He simply didn't follow his oath, he'll have to take that up with God," Phelps said of Alito. "I very much appreciate the fact that I get to be the mouth of God in this matter."

The words of a seriously delusional person. It's not God waving the signs around that He hates fags, it's people who think they're better than everybody else who are doing that.
Who gives them the RIGHT to judge people?
What makes them think that what they're doing is actually helping anyone?
Why are they even referring to themselves as a church at all?! It's blasphemy.
I wonder just who the hell those people think they are.

Really, the way some people can downplay my faith like that is disgusting. God doesn't hate man, God hates SIN. He doesn't hate the gay people, He hates that they ACT on their desires which are against His will.
But I'm pretty darn sure that these people aren't scoring brownie points with God by protesting things like that at funerals anyway. It's like the Snyder guy said, it's hate messages coming from those people. It's no wonder people scrutinise my faith, it's because of idiots like that.

It just makes me want to (*&^^$%$&^(**)(*)$%^*&*)( hit something.
But what can we do, right?
Except for launching protests outside their church yard when they have services going, and doing it loud enough so they can't actually have a service. And toiletpapering everyone's cars while they're in church. And letting the air out of their tires. Maybe leaving a few crushed rotten tomatoes and eggs in their exhaust pipes too, for good measure.

This is similar to that guy who burnt the Quran. It's like people are out to get other people and start world war 3.

Anyway. The land of free speech, huh? Sounds like a mighty sucky place to be when you give a voice to morons.

 

[Vergil'sBitch]

It's weird how free speech can bite some ppl in the butt.
They shouldn't be aloud to do it. A funeral is a service where the family say goodbye and remember who that person was in life, why should they have a bunch of !£$%^ spoiling it.
I wholeheartedly agree with Master Vergil and DanteDude99.

But doesn't it show religion is a problem too?
I bet most of the worlds problems are down to religion.

When you burn someone's holy book, protest at someone's funeral... whatever at someone's beliefs you are gonna cause certain trouble.

 

[Vergil'sBitch]

It's weird how free speech can bite some ppl in the butt.
They shouldn't be aloud to do it. A funeral is a service where the family say goodbye and remember who that person was in life, why should they have a bunch of !£$%^ spoiling it.
I wholeheartedly agree with Master Vergil and DanteDude99.

But doesn't it show religion is a problem too?
I bet most of the worlds problems are down to religion.
(Ireland, catholics and protestants, they've been bombing each other for decades... at some point it was not too dissimilar from Afghanistan apparently)

When you burn someone's holy book, protest at someone's funeral... whatever at someone's beliefs you are gonna cause certain trouble.

 

[Angelo Credo]

The Westboro Baptist Church are the absolute scum of the Earth.

These people aren't even religious, their entire aim in protesting at funerals is to garner such hatred as to provoke people into attacking them, either verbally or physically, and then proceed to sue them into oblivion.
That's it, that's their only goal, all they care about is suing good people for money and ruining their lives, the religious façade is to ensure that they're protected under first amendment rights and can legally do it and that's it.

These people should be purged from the gene pool, they shouldn't even exist, let alone be allowed to actively protest.

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

The Westboro Baptist Church are the absolute scum of the Earth.

These people aren't even religious, their entire aim in protesting at funerals is to garner such hatred as to provoke people into attacking them, either verbally or physically, and then proceed to sue them into oblivion.
That's it, that's their only goal, all they care about is suing good people for money and ruining their lives, the religious façade is to ensure that they're protected under first amendment rights and can legally do it and that's it.

These people should be purged from the gene pool, they shouldn't even exist, let alone be allowed to actively protest.

Purged from the gene pool without a Darwin award, at that. They're undeserving of even THAT recognition.

Seriously, people like this make me sick. "God hates fags"? Excuse me, I have gay friends who probably make more money and have a better social life than you ever will. By showing that you're a bigot you are actually DENYING what "god given rights" you have. There's no room in Heaven for the bigoted and supremists.

And by the way: if I ever see these people I am going to rip off their car doors, smash their windows and leave claw marks everywhere in the shape of "DT was here... Fag."

 

[V]

Haha, those Westboro asshats.

I am a massive supporter of free speech. I have and more than likely always will support it, right to the end. But. And yep, there's a big but in there:

I've come to realise over the years that with free speech comes responsibility.

That responsibility I've always felt was a natural part of the privilege of having it, but evidently quite a few other people don't seem to think it is. "Free speech" to some means the 'right' to be a complete dick to other people. Which is never what the idea was about or what the people who fought (and died) for it probably ever intended or envisioned. Free speech should be for constructive purposes. What is the point of having free speech if all it does is cause hate, death and the further curtailment of free speech afterward? (For example, that U.S. pastor who just burned a Quran in full knowledge that it might well have violent and deadly consequences, duly offended plenty of Muslims and gave a bunch of people in Afghanistan an excuse to butcher a bunch of aid workers. Details on that here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/01/afghanistan-united-nations-killings).

If used unconstuctively, the reaction to free speech is usually to restrict it. Which will eventually happen if people like that pastor continue to put lives in jeopardy by baiting volatile individuals to commit their disgusting knee-jerk acts of violence. So - free speech needs to be used constuctively if it's allowed to exist at all. It shouldn't exist 'just to prove a point', because an example of that very thing just got that pastor banned from several countries and was an excuse for some low individuals to kill several innocent people. And sooner or later people will be stopped from burning Qurans by law. If enough people die as a result, it will happen. The law will be changed to prevent it, in order to protect the innocent, and a portion of free speech will have been lost. Just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you SHOULD.

So no, I'm not in favour - as supportive as I am of free speech - of people like the WB's picketing funerals or burning holy books, no matter how inconsequential and silly I personally find it. The reason being that people (as a whole) are still not yet grown up enough to fully appreciate and accept what free speech means without getting fatally offended. Some people obviously can, but on the whole, offence and pride causes an awful lot of problems for the human race and isn't going to go away as long as some people refuse to ignore it and use it as an excuse to retaliate. If people want to use free speech they should be taught that along with free speech one should respect others and their beliefs.

Now don't get me wrong, I know that certain people burn Bibles and effigies of Western leaders in some places and are happy to behead a Westerner at the drop of a hat. But that doesn't entitle us to make the situation worse by being just as downright low and ignorant as that, which is pretty much what the pastor was doing. And look what it achieved - nothing constructive whatsoever. It just racked up the hate, the fear and the overall tension another notch. Well done Terry. You're the MAN. You made a fabulous point that really hit home, didn't it? Also, you're not much better than Muslim extremists are now, a bona-fide hate-mongerer.

Making such 'points' very VERY rarely ever makes the other side sit up and realise their errs, bringing them back to reality and ready to embrace your opinion with open arms. Instead they just tend get even more ****ed off and even more ready to strike back. This isn't going to work with the extremist situation we now 'have' between West and Muslims (which I may add is really only between the West and certain Muslims, certainly not ALL Muslims). Fostering mutual disrespect as opposed to mutual respect and setting a better example is doing it wrong. People aren't quite ready yet to embrace what free speech is and that they might have to accept opinions they don't like - and so we still have a duty to ensure it's used responsibly. Until the day we can take another opinion or an insult and return a laugh instead of a stone, we deserve to exercise some restraint.

As for the WBs and their 'case' - we all know that each of our own 'freedoms' end where they inpinge upon another person's. I can't exercise the freedom to wander around punching people in the face as it impinges on their freedom and right not to be victimised in this civilised society we're supposed to have. I would say that what the WBs do is to impinge very strongly on others' right to be unmolested and allowed to grieve in peace. And as a result they should NOT be allowed to do it at people's funerals. By all means, do it five miles away from the funeral if you must, on a roadside or in a field... but they shouldn't be allowed to directly disturb the freedom of other law-abiding people to live their lives in peace.

Amirite?

 

[Meg]

But doesn't it show religion is a problem too?
I bet most of the worlds problems are down to religion.

When you burn someone's holy book, protest at someone's funeral... whatever at someone's beliefs you are gonna cause certain trouble.

That's not a very fair statement. I'm Christian and my religion has taught me to be loving, tolerant, charity giving, and peaceful person. Oh my GOSH what kind of horrible thing is that?! (Sarcasm not directed at you VB). But really, many religions are beautiful and teach people to be the things I listed above. Its not religion, its the people who claim to follow it, but really are just using it as an excuse to do terrible things as Mr. Credo was saying. To say religion is at fault is inaccurate and unfair to the religions themselves. Its just that religion is a touchy subject and in many cases it becomes the central issue, but that all comes down to the lack of responsibility of the people.

Its not the religion, its not technology, money, or anything else people seem to blame for the world's woes. Its people. Now that doesn't mean ALL people are terrible or evil. Far from! Its just that, while one person can make another person happy, one person can also try to exterminate a race of people (bit of a simplification, but you get the point). The bad can be obvious and over shadow the good, but the good is still there.

 

[Vergil'sBitch]

my parents taught me to be loving etc, i didn't need a book to tell me how to be towards ppl, in fact no one should need a book to tell them that they should be tolerant to other ppl.
Ppl are also treated the way that they deserved to be treated. If they treat you like dirt, they deserve the same.
I know no one will agree with me, but hey, that's how i feel.

 

[Meg]

And before this becomes about religion!

So, protesters,eh? Well it seems like pretty much everyone is in agreement that the WBC people are wrong to protest at funerals. Well, what should be done about it? Anything? Should we limit free speech and if so then couldn't doing that make it easier for people to be like "Well, this is almost/just as bad as doing that which is illegal, so shouldn't this be illegal to?" which would in turn defeat the purpose of having "free speech." Thoughts?

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

I think that if people take free speech too far, then they should be stopped, but no one else should be punished. No point in punishing more people than necessary.

 

[Dante's Stalker]

my parents taught me to be loving etc, i didn't need a book to tell me how to be towards ppl, in fact no one should need a book to tell them that they should be tolerant to other ppl.
Ppl are also treated the way that they deserved to be treated. If they treat you like dirt, they deserve the same.
I know no one will agree with me, but hey, that's how i feel.

I half and half agree with you VB. I did however need a 'book' to tell me how to follow my religion accordingly, and at the end of the day draw my own conclusions on how to stretch myself to my full potential. Else I'd just be another parrot echoing whatever beliefs my parents feed me, without a mind of my own, having no answer except 'uhhhhh' when people would ask me exactly why I believe what I do. I learnt to be compassionate and non-judgemental toward murderers, gamblers, prostitutes, gays and lesbians and bisexuals, people with health and mental problems, and I learnt which battles to pick and which to shrug off from a 'book', and how to conduct myself toward people who don't share my religion.

But clearly, I think you'll agree, with the WBC people they do need a book to tell them how to behave, because obviously their parents never taught them to shut the f**** up if they've got nothing nice to say. I bet they never picked up the Bible, and if they did it was only to search for single verses to 'justify' their crazy asses.

And I'm with you about people needing to be treated as they deserve to be treated. What goes around comes around, what you sow you will reap, it's in the Bible, it's the cycle of life. Those people are bound to get some of their own back with some interest to boot, sooner or later.

As to what to do about those morons - it's unfortunately one of those issues that are out of our hands. The power for change lies in the law's hands. I dunno, we could hope that one day those idiots will go protest at a judge's funeral or some big-up in the law's funeral, and have them in turn have a go at the first amendment and set the ball in motion for some kind of change.
Or, you know, people could just call the police if they pitch up at a funeral and report them for disturbing the peace. Because that is what they are doing, and that is against people's rights. Yeah, how about the law chew on that dillemma for a bit.

 

[V]

I suppose the best way to deal with people like the Westboro Baptists is to completely blank them. Ignore them. They thrive on publicity and shock value and without it they are nothing and nobody would care about them. Although it would be hard for me to ignore them at a funeral in my own family while they're waving placards about in front of me, it would actually be the most hurtful thing of all to them if nobody took any notice. What they love is to get people all riled up. I think if people blanked them, they'd just have to take their placards and go home. Even they'd notice in the end that they were just wasting their time attention-seeking where there's no attention.

 

[darkslayer13]

the first amendment gives people the right to say what they want. it doesn't say a single thing about where. so banning protests at funerals is not a violation of first amendment rights.

 

[Reanbell]

Sorry, I am going to rant here because this type of thing really infuriates me. Hating a person because of how they lived their life without even knowing them, is the most asinine pass time that I have ever heard of. For one, if a loved one has died no one gives a flying **** about what you're there to protest. If someone they lost had died, I'm sure they wouldn't appreciate a group of inane morons coming up and going "GOD HATES YOU GLAD YOU'RE IN HELL" =/. It's just disrespectful, rude, and in my opinion it belongs to no belief or religion besides the devil himself. These people protest supposedly in the name of God, when only God has the right to judge. They aren't perfect humans, they aren't flawless, they aren't all knowing. How the hell do they know what God hates and what he favors, or even if he exists at all? There are so many mysteries in the world, and to assume that only one thought is the correct one is just being a close minded and ignorant person. Yes you can believe in something. But you shouldn't disrespect others that don't. These people want to create a better world when in fact, they're ones corrupting it. Love knows no gender. And not just about homosexuality, but about anything other dumbass remark they have to make about a persons beliefs - my belief has always been that if you're a good person that treats others with kindness and respect, you deserve the same sort of treatment. It doesny matter what color you are, or who you love. I find it impossible to believe that someone could be sent to hell for loving another person. If that's true, if that's really what God is about, then I'd rather rot in hell then act like a jackass by basically dancing on the grave of a person who lost their life. Especially on one of a soldier that lost their life supporting their family and their country. No one deserves that kind of treatment, and they shouldn't be allowed to do that. If they're allowed to do that, I should be allowed to walk over and punch every one of those mindless idiots square in the god damned face. I would not stand for that at any funeral of a loved one and if I saw it happen, I'd stick up for myself and beat their asses. That is absolutely uncalled for.

I don't think these people have a right to stand for anything, and are very corrupt for the way they act. True followers of a religion should not be blamed for these moronic actions, because these people are not followers of God. They are blinded fools that think they are righteous, when in actuality everybody hates THEM.

 

[Mr Anderson]

People really need to be understanding I am agnostic and I may not be the greatest role model but people are supposed to have some sort of gauge to know when they go too far. I really hate people that are religious that are condescending and think themselves better than you because of their religion. I mean "judge not lest ye be judged" is what a lot of people believe in and that is violated alot also feeling proud in their religiousness is hubris so i ask that people understand that not everyone believes the same thing but tolerance and not petty bickering and protesting at a place where we honor the deceased. I also agree ignoring WBC tactics might work if you don't rise to the bait eventually you will stop being baited at but also we need them to understand when and if they stop this behaviour should not be tolerated tolerate that other people don't believe what you do but understand their right to their beliefs it's ok to believe what you want unless and until your beliefs end up hurting people I mean i am shocked at how it came to this. Religion has probably been the cause of a lot of wars across history. And I am not just knocking religion and religious people I know a lot of good and decent religious people too but sometimes zealots take things too far. People need to learn tolerance costs less lives than hate and uncompromising self pride.

 

[Ronan]

That's not a very fair statement. I'm Christian and my religion has taught me to be loving, tolerant, charity giving, and peaceful person. Oh my GOSH what kind of horrible thing is that?! (Sarcasm not directed at you VB). But really, many religions are beautiful and teach people to be the things I listed above. Its not religion, its the people who claim to follow it, but really are just using it as an excuse to do terrible things as Mr. Credo was saying. To say religion is at fault is inaccurate and unfair to the religions themselves. Its just that religion is a touchy subject and in many cases it becomes the central issue, but that all comes down to the lack of responsibility of the people.

Its not the religion, its not technology, money, or anything else people seem to blame for the world's woes. Its people. Now that doesn't mean ALL people are terrible or evil. Far from! Its just that, while one person can make another person happy, one person can also try to exterminate a race of people (bit of a simplification, but you get the point). The bad can be obvious and over shadow the good, but the good is still there.

Agreed. People are always the source of the problem, but people can be the solution as well.

As to the whole protest thing...I don't know. It angers me, to say the least. The audacity of these asshats gives a bad name to so many different groups of people...as if we didn't have enough to live down previously. Anyway free speech, blah. My right to swing my fist ends where your right to not get hit in the face begins.

 

[Mr Anderson]

If I had a chance to get at those people that did this I think I would take the low road my mantra is "I don't get even I get ahead." And I don't know what I would have to do to get ahead of people like that.

 

[Dante's Stalker]

My right to swing my fist ends where your right to not get hit in the face begins.

I just had to quote this. XDDDDDDDDDD

I would say physically removing these protestors from the grounds in a very unkindly manner would be a quickfire way of getting rid of them, though there would be consequences such as the police to deal with and reports for assault, maybe a night or two in jail, even having to pay them some 'personal' damage cash in court. But if you keep stuffing up these people, and everyone keeps ending up in court, it will at least catch the judge's attention and have them decide something must be done about it.

But...yeah, that's not a very good way of doing things either. Violence doesn't solve anything, as wars and such have proven.