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The origins of an accent

Angel

Is not rat, is hamster
Admin
Moderator
So here is one of my pointless and possibly unanswerable questions:

Where did accents come from?

I'm not interested in the science of how one acquires an accent or how ancient tribes differentiated between each other based on pronunciation - I want to know where the different accents came from in the first place.

Take America, for example. If the first white settlers were not American, how on earth did a whole new accent turn up? Presumably the natives did not have it, so where did it come from? And then the regional dialects you get in different countries?

Why do Spanish people sound Spanish and the Scots sound Scottish? I don't know if this can even be answered but I am bored, ill and need something a little more mentally stimulating than Peppa Pig right now.

So please, you bunch of clever people, indulge me :)
 

aoshi

Well-known Member
I think 'accent' originated from non-native speakers of a language. Possibly when globalization took effect. I don't think native speakers have an accent but are accustomed to since birth and raised by parents who speak of the same accent. Those who cultivate a knowledge of new language must have given rise to 'accent' since phonetics of their native language does not coincide with those of new language and possibly mix native language phonetics with new language and voila , we have a new 'accent'.
 

Loopy

Devil hunter in training
With regards to America, the first settlers came from all over the world. That's why they have Creole, which derives from French immigrants gathering in certain areas; and then there's Pennsylvania Dutch, which is a modified version of German spoken by the Amish, and descendants from Germany and Switzerland. While these two languages can be recognised by speakers of French and German, they are certainly very different and have their own accents.
So, I guess, what I mean is, these accents and regional variantions of languages are due to globalisation and the mixing of different cultures and people.

It's like the UK with the Brummie accent, or Liverpudlian scouser. While both speak English, they have their own regional variations. Also, bear in mind that UK has been taken over and colonised quite a few times by people such as the Romans and Scandanavian Vikings, so they also contributed to the language development of the country.

Language and accents are contatnly changing; they're fluid. The best indicator for that is slang words. Quite a few of them then become incorportated into the national lexicon.
 

LysseC

Philosopher and fangirl. Worst. Combination. Ever.
Now that's quite the difficult question... I can't tell for English speakers, but here in Italy we have a lot of different accents and dialects. I believe, in our case, that it depends on the fact that each part of Italy had a different story and politcal development, which resulted also in cultural differences (though they may not seem so eveident from the outside).
I have no real scientific explanation of course, but I guess differences in dialects and accents come from different ways of saying things and from the common uses of small communities, other than influences from speakers of a foreing language. It's kinda what happens when you spend a lot of time with the same group of people: your way of speaking changes and you start using specific inflections and slang. Dialects and accents, I guess, are just a "macro" version of this phenomenon.
 

LordOfDarkness

The Dark Avenger © †
Moderator
Premium Elite
Premium
Supporter 2014
Xen-Omni 2020
You have to also think logically that being born a specific colour, race and with a particular accent is not going to have anything to do with the type of people you eventually socialise with when you're older. This happens genetically by default. Not always the case as it does also have something to do with the people around you. In time you can adopt whatever your accent would be. So it comes from where you are born and who you are socially influenced by. How though is also a mystery for me.

Think we might need the Mystery Gang for this one.
 

Shin Muramasa

Metallic Stranger
Accents, I love accents for some strange reason even if some of them annoy me like Boston - it just rubs me the wrong way -, deep Southern accents in the United States, and Cockney English - most overused and stereotypical accent to represent the British/English. Then there's Welsh, Manchurian, Caribbean, Scottish, Australian, Irish, etc. People say that the environment affects people a lot. So, living in a poor area, wealthy nation, with intellectual groups, with spiritual groups, different languages, etc. all affect people.

Stereotypes are there for a reason, they caricature other people. Y'know the whole Asians say L's for R's, well in Mandarin and Cantonese and I'm going to assume the other Chinese dialects don't have R sounds. Japanese have words with R's in them, but people either do or don't pronounce the sound. I think this might have to do where they live that affects why they don't pronounce it. That said, not all languages in Asian omit R's, in fact, Vietnamese and Thai have R sounds. My mom is Chinese, but lived in South Vietnam. So, she had two things with her accent: a Southern Vietnamese accent and a Cantonese accent.

In Vietnam, there are three prominent accents: Northern, Central, and Southern. Simply put, Northern stays true to original Vietnamese pronunciation; they don't omit any accents - as in the symbols on letters -, sounds, letters, etc. Southern deviates a little and is more lackadaisical. As for Central, I have no idea; I guess you could say Northern would be British English that's closer to what Old English was, Southern would be like American English, and Central is like Scottish English. Central puts heavy use on like one or two accents. Geographically, North is on it's own and Hanoi was the capital way back then when Vietnam had a monarchy and such. So, people spoke the King's Vietnamese so to speak. Central is on the mountains and I guess they were isolated so the way they spoke just became different and probably considered strange, rural, and uneducated. Funny enough, I think one of the previous capitals was in Central Vietnam. And then there's South Vietnam which is close to Cambodia, Malaysia, and was where the Cham people used to live. I'm going to guess that they picked up Cambodian, Malaysian, and Cham ways of speaking.

Going to my father, being South Vietnamese, he well, had a Southern accent, but he was also educated in a French school. What does this mean? Well, when he escaped to the United States, his accent was a mixture of French and Southern Vietnamese when speaking English. In French, H's aren't usually pronounced, and unless there's an E at the end of a word, you don't pronounce the "last" letter, plus other things. So, when he was on a bus to go to his brother, dad was looking for "Raymond Rd" as in "Ray-men". He pronounced it as something like Ramon or "Rah-moan". Unsurprisingly, the bus driver did not understand; dad had to write it down on a piece of paper. To this day and it can't be helped since he's old and learned English at a late age, my dad will still refer to English things or say them in French. Spark plugs are bougies and ham is usually jambon.

This obviously attributed to how I speak. In Vietnamese, since I learned to speak it, but never really got pass learning how to write and read - yay, I'm illiterate in Vietnamese - and since I don't use it everyday compared to English, I have a "bad" accent. I picked up my mom's way of not saying R's, I add English from time to time if I don't know the word in Vietnamese, and I have crappy grammar. It also doesn't help that I talk fast, meaning I slur words and stutter - I hope this does not get me in trouble with the law. I cannot speak Cantonese at all, but I can understand it, so there's that. English would be considered, generally, American English, however, I'm from the Upper Midwest, so I probably have a Midwestern accent. I don't know since I don't care or pay attention. That said, after listening to tons of people speak English in different accents, from Vietnamese, Indian, to general Britain, general Australian, Africa, etc., I might have picked up some little things from them. I don't talk much, but I listen a lot, so I definitely would have picked up random tidbits from people speaking English.

Also, it's kind of strange that despite getting a "proper" education in the United States, in French and most foreign languages, we learn more about grammar that in English classes, so I think that might be another reason since I learned to speak English just as I learned to speak Vietnamese while living with parents who rarely spoke English. I never really grasped the inner mechanisms of speaking English whereas in French, I learned what the rules were to speaking French even though I don't know how to speak it fluently. In English, it was just "Oh, this letter makes this sound and this is a vowel...". Whenever a random word comes up, let's say "Jacob", I'd mispronounce immediately. Guess what I thought it was. "Ja-cob", not "Jay-cub". Yeah. And then a French word like "raton laveur" (racoon) comes up and I can say it well; "rah-ton lah-ver". Another quirk is that I tend to say some things in their original language. Montréal usually comes out as "Mont-ray-al", the French pronunciation, instead of "Montray-al", the English pronunciation. This kind of makes me feel unintentionally pretentious. This also leads to me getting irritated when people mispronounce things like Toyota; it's "Toy-yo-ta", there's no freaking "I" that makes it "Tie-oh-ta". Also, I'm glad that Chevrolet made it clear that it's "Shev-roll-lay" - I would die if I heard "Chev-roh-let". Then there's jaguar, which I say "jag-warhr" or "jag-war". In England - don't know about Australia and other English speaking nations -, they say "jag-u-ar". Both are "correct". The British English follows English rules - I think that's an acceptable term. The American pronunciation follows the Portuguese adaption of the Tupi word "jawára" meaning large carnivore. If it were closer, it'd be something like "zhaag-war" since J's are pronounced like "Zh" sounds, apparently. Aside from those two, there's "jag-wire"... I don't want to explain why this is strange.

Anyway, with this long post, I think that the environment is the "cause" of accents. Living in a French-speaking, Afrikaans-speaking, Russian-speaking, or areas of a particular ethnic group or culture, or even an area with their own slang and speech patterns, all affect how someone speaks. For some of us, it might be funny, adorable, annoying, stupid, or just plain normal to hear a person say "Hello" in different languages and accents. I mean, there's "Hello",, "Hallo", "'ello", "Hullo", and the stereotypical "Herro". Or how about "Boston", "Baston", "Bostin", and "Bastin"? Personally, it makes this world interesting and personally, it would boring if everyone had the same accent, I mean, a Scottish accent is cool and all, but imagine if everyone spoke with a Scottish accent. It'd take away from the charm, annoyance, confusion, and novelty of a Scottish accent.
 

Angel

Is not rat, is hamster
Admin
Moderator
Thanks for the replies but I think we are still mostly talking about acquired or learnt accents which happen over time. And that I fully understand as I have done it myself. Perhaps I am confusing people. I want to know how accents came about in the first place in countries and regions BEFORE globalisation or conquering or whatever. I mean, i can understand how a country would sound French, for example, if the French took over a few hundred years ago or something but there must have been an initial, original accent that started evrything. Or did we all just kind of grunt in monotone until someone suddenly created a funny accent and people copied it?

My guess is that this question cannot be answered on that level - we know from history or personal experience that naturalisation attributes to accent changes as well as the need to connect on a similar level to those around us (hence why posh uni students tend to drop their accent over time to fit in) - I guess I just like asking impossible questions :lol:. I find it fascinating that we all speak differently and I cannot explain why. Even difference in.language doesnt answer it because we have all heard someone at some point completely marmalise a language by speaking it in their own accent. I had a french teacjer from liverpool when I was in primary school and I still jave a tendency to say some french words with a Scouse accent...

Btw, typing this on my phone so sorry for the bad apelling and whatnot - sausage fingers, dontcha know
 

Winterfrost

Shadow-of-Sundered-Star
Okay so you want to know how everyone got accents to begin with?
If so...I might have to add some science into it, I don't mind whether you believe in it or not.

But, as evolution occurs, DNA is changed we began to adapt. Maybe for example a caveman looked at his son, and he sounded different for some reason.
Caveman is confused, because that's the first time his child spoke...but he sounded different.
So add that on for millions of years, or thousands, whichever you prefer.
And people spread out, so to say. As for Americans getting our accent..well that's tough to say, maybe they thought "We are a new country...let's talk differently to diverse ourselves!" Then when your kids grow up to that accent as native they start to speak it.
Like I'm German, British and Japanese.
British accent slips out every so often, but I still speak with the American accent. Whether you learn it through your ancestor's DNA, but it changes because of your parent's DNA...then quite possibly it was an accident.



I have no idea if I'm wording it correctly.
 

Loopy

Devil hunter in training
Okay so you want to know how everyone got accents to begin with?
If so...I might have to add some science into it, I don't mind whether you believe in it or not.

But, as evolution occurs, DNA is changed we began to adapt. Maybe for example a caveman looked at his son, and he sounded different for some reason.
Caveman is confused, because that's the first time his child spoke...but he sounded different.
So add that on for millions of years, or thousands, whichever you prefer.
And people spread out, so to say. As for Americans getting our accent..well that's tough to say, maybe they thought "We are a new country...let's talk differently to diverse ourselves!" Then when your kids grow up to that accent as native they start to speak it.
Like I'm German, British and Japanese.
British accent slips out every so often, but I still speak with the American accent. Whether you learn it through your ancestor's DNA, but it changes because of your parent's DNA...then quite possibly it was an accident.



I have no idea if I'm wording it correctly.
So you mean like the genetic memory theory? They use the same on to try and explain how it is that newly hatched birds know where to go to lay eggs as adults even though they never saw the place.
I'm not sure if an accent is imbedded in the DNA like that, but there is so much we do not know, that it could be very possible.

About what you were saying with your accent changing, I'm from UK, and my natural accent is received pronunciation, aka queen's Engish, but depending on who I'm with, I'll change my accent to match theirs because usually if I talk in my normal accent, it makes me stand out, and then people get the wrong impression of me (snob, stuck up, posh...that sort of thing.)
So, accent changing is also an acquired action. I could also speak in some sort of American accent too if I wanted due to being exposed to lots of American TV, and While I do have relatives in America and Canada, I don't think thats the reason why I personally can imitate American accents. Have to admit though, when we meet up, it's astounding how much of my vocabulary and intonation I have to change for them to understand me.:p The funny part is though, these American relatives emmirgrated there from Barry Island in wales. But they've been in America so long that you could never tell they were Welsh because they lost those accents and adopted American ones.

And as an additional bit of info; after I was in Japan for a few months, I came back home trying to read words using Japanese pronunciation, and actually could not tell the difference between L and R sounds. It really made my friends laugh.:p I also started using Enlgish words, but with the Japanese meaning attached to them, and bowed when I was using the phone.:lol: It's amazing what people pick up when they are in another country without even realising it.

So I guess accents are a result of needing to adapt from one place to another.
 

Winterfrost

Shadow-of-Sundered-Star
So you mean like the genetic memory theory? They use the same on to try and explain how it is that newly hatched birds know where to go to lay eggs as adults even though they never saw the place.
I'm not sure if an accent is imbedded in the DNA like that, but there is so much we do not know, that it could be very possible.

About what you were saying with your accent changing, I'm from UK, and my natural accent is received pronunciation, aka queen's Engish, but depending on who I'm with, I'll change my accent to match theirs because usually if I talk in my normal accent, it makes me stand out, and then people get the wrong impression of me (snob, stuck up, posh...that sort of thing.)
So, accent changing is also an acquired action. I could also speak in some sort of American accent too if I wanted due to being exposed to lots of American TV, and While I do have relatives in America and Canada, I don't think thats the reason why I personally can imitate American accents. Have to admit though, when we meet up, it's astounding how much of my vocabulary and intonation I have to change for them to understand me.:p The funny part is though, these American relatives emmirgrated there from Barry Island in wales. But they've been in America so long that you could never tell they were Welsh because they lost those accents and adopted American ones.

And as an additional bit of info; after I was in Japan for a few months, I came back home trying to read words using Japanese pronunciation, and actually could not tell the difference between L and R sounds. It really made my friends laugh.:p I also started using Enlgish words, but with the Japanese meaning attached to them, and bowed when I was using the phone.:lol: It's amazing what people pick up when they are in another country without even realising it.

So I guess accents are a result of needing to adapt from one place to another.
That's a way better theory than I came up with! :D
So, if you're saying I go see you, you'll speak in an American accent? o_O Mythbusters needs to test this somehow. I don't know why they'll think you're a snob or a stuck up. :L Kind of rude in my opinion, accents shouldn't depict how the personality is. Although I know how you feel when it comes to answering the phone. Or whenever I see my friend who comes over, I always bow for some reason.
He says he feels fancy when I do it.
 

Loopy

Devil hunter in training
That's a way better theory than I came up with! :D
So, if you're saying I go see you, you'll speak in an American accent? :blink:
Pretty much.:lol: I have to do it with my American relatives, so I guess it's just me adapting to a situation so that they can understand me.

Mythbusters needs to test this somehow. I don't know why they'll think you're a snob or a stuck up. :L Kind of rude in my opinion, accents shouldn't depict how the personality is. Although I know how you feel when it comes to answering the phone. Or whenever I see my friend who comes over, I always bow for some reason.
He says he feels fancy when I do it.
They really do need to test it. That would be cool to see how they did it. I love that show.:D
It is silly to prejudge someone based on their accent, but it is human nature. I heard a theory about that being due to keeping people in the same group/ tribe, but I don't know if it's true.

It's like people with Birmingham accents have the stereotype of being stupid. That's what I was told when I was a child, that Birmingham people were uneducated and couldn't speak Enlgish properly.:| So, I can understand why people with my accent are thought to be snobs, rude or stuck up. It's a shame that people have preconceived ideas about other people purely based on their accents.
 

Winterfrost

Shadow-of-Sundered-Star
Pretty much.:lol: I have to do it with my American relatives, so I guess it's just me adapting to a situation so that they can understand me.


They really do need to test it. That would be cool to see how they did it. I love that show.:D
It is silly to prejudge someone based on their accent, but it is human nature. I heard a theory about that being due to keeping people in the same group/ tribe, but I don't know if it's true.

It's like people with Birmingham accents have the stereotype of being stupid. That's what I was told when I was a child, that Birmingham people were uneducated and couldn't speak Enlgish properly.:| So, I can understand why people with my accent are thought to be snobs, rude or stuck up. It's a shame that people have preconceived ideas about other people purely based on their accents.
Okay, I'll buy a ticket to fly there now.
seriously someone get me out of here! HELP ME!
But yeah it's extremely stupid! I was called harsh words at my old school when I kept accidentally switching accents to adapt like you did.
Around my friend, I'd speak naturally, but when talking to someone new I sound like Mr. Bean.
 

Angel General

Cristal, Advisor to Emperor Glaser & sky goddess
I'll generalise and use America to describe accents because it is a huge place with many different languages and dialects.
I think American accents contrast so much from the accent of the original European settlers because the two groups have been separated for so long. The language of the settlers continues to develop, but develops isolated and therefore differently. New slang terms become part of the language, and regional dialects and accent variations form as the population increases and branches out. In America, there is also a wide diversity of cultures so in many cases the language and accent from these different cultures blend together, like in Lousiana where Cajun people use their own form of French that a native French person would barely be able to decipher.
It's also obvious that people have an accent depending on the language that they speak; as they grow up learning to form sounds in a certain way, and become accustomed to it. Trying to change the way you speak therefore becomes a difficult task. e.g. if you're English, rolling your r's as fluently as a Spanish person is not easy.
Where I live in England, you don't have to travel far before you find a place where people have a different accent to you. I guess that's because Britain got invaded a lot in the past, by the Vikings and Romans, (Which has already been mentioned but yeah.) I like that there is such a mixture of accents in such a small place, it's diverse and interesting. I think that it is not possible for somebody to not have an accent, as everyone perceives accent differently.
I doubt that accents actually, "Came," from anywhere; as soon as the first people began to speak and use language, they developed an accent. As humans spread across the globe, the language diversifies and the accent with it. Some people communicate by whistling or using clicking sounds, and would find it hard to then pronounce words in a more vocal language. To me, an accent is simply the way you form words, how you pronounce them, the way you learn to speak as a child and become used to.
 

DMC

Devil May Cry
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ROCKMAN X

Keyser Söze
I have a very simple overview on this subject matter :-

Accents exist because language comes from various diverse cultures and thus the language is supposedly saturated in the ocean that is diversity of its non-native speakers around the world.
 

V

Oldschool DMC fan
I think it's something to do with copying your surroundings. I lived all over and each time I was in a place, the accent started to affect me and change how I talked. However people talk in an area, others will copy it and it tends to stick with someone

You can also deliberately modify your accent, mine is now a mix of things I like the sounds of from all over and doesn't sound anything like where I came from. But if I get talking to someone from my hometown I'll feel some kind of pull to begin talking in the same accent even after a few minutes. I think in the past isolation in an area led to people copying how people from there talked and that's how accents developed in different towns and regions. You can find yourself being sucked into using an accent, taking one with you, or creating your own.

Also, the current American accent sounds a lot like modified Irish to me. Immigrants took it over there and it mixed with all sort of other stuff and was also isolated in different regions to become specialized. Principle of evolution of species on a different scale.
 

Dante's Stalker

"Outrun this!"
Premium
Supporter 2014
I want to know how accents came about in the first place in countries and regions BEFORE globalisation or conquering or whatever.

Well....in theory, the planet used to have one big chunka continent....no wait. Never mind. This is mind-blowing.
 
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