The Core of the Series?

[Railazel]

So for the past three years, NT and Capcom have been saying that the core of the series has been perserved in DmC. However, what exactly is that core and what part of DmC perserves it?

They've been saying for the past three years that the core of DMC was its combat, which I believe is inaccurate. The reason being is that DMC 1 wasn't that fast- paced or even combat- focused: the Style ranking was basically a hit counter; you only had three weapons (only two of which had a DT) and about 5 guns (one of which is only usable in water); and you weren't able to switch them on the fly, you had to pause the game then choose a weapon; and the combat wasn't really "jazz"- like since most of the enemies had a specific way of being defeated.

So, when they're talking about the core of DMC, I believe they were talking about the core of DMC 2, 3, and 4 but not the franchise as a whole and DmC very well keeps the core of those games since free- form combat is still there.

But what about the core of DMC 1?

DMC 2- 4 never really emphasized on strategy and focus primarily on what you were able to do: Enemies had "wooden dummy"- like aspects, not having any major weaknesses; weapons became plentiful in terms of actions and movesets; and mechanics like Cancelling have been heavily empashized.

Really, it seems that the franchise doesn't just have one core but two: A form of combat based around experimentation and strategy and a form of combat based on personal expression. It is obvious that DmC is based on personal expression. So is the core of gameplay in DMC 1 supposed to be left behind?

In fact, which one should we consider to be the real core? Should we favor free- form combat over strategy- centered gameplay? Is one better than the other?

Personally, I would say that DmC can learn from DMC 1. So far, its going on a pretty good track. The Tyrants seem to be like mini- bosses and the Rages remind of the Blades. If they expand on this by giving enemies specific weakspots and weaknesses to certain attacks (beyond Angel or Demon mode), I could really fully enjoy it knowing that I would have to take time thinking about how I'm going to defeat my enemy. Sadly though, the strategies employed seem realy shallow. Hopefully, they would grow much more complex.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

I never thought of the core being just on gameplay. DMC is a game that let's you go free form of stylish attacks and challenging your brain. It's something to help you understand that even though you're different from everyone else, doesn't mean you don't have a special power inside yourself. It teaches that no matter how strong you may say you are and how extraordinary you think you are, you're still human on the inside, and humans can cry. At least that's how I see it.

I do hope they get aspects from DMC1 though.

Do you think the reason there isn't much from DMC1 is because Capcom made sure that there wasn't. Y'know since Kamiya left, made Bayonetta, and said she can beat Dante?

 

[Gbraga]

I don't see how DMC1 not living up to DMC 3 and 4 combat changes what they said about the core of the series. Maybe they were going for that combat from the start, but took them 3 games to get it right. If I'm not mistaken the idea when it was RE4 was to have a Resident Evil with focus on Stylish Combat, so from the very start that was their goal.

 

[Railazel]

I never thought of the core being just on gameplay. DMC is a game that let's you go free form of stylish attacks and challenging your brain. It's something to help you understand that even though you're different from everyone else, doesn't mean you don't have a special power inside yourself. It teaches that no matter how strong you may say you are and how extraordinary you think you are, you're still human on the inside, and humans can cry. At least that's how I see it.

I do hope they get aspects from DMC1 though.

Do you think the reason there isn't much from DMC1 is because Capcom made sure that there wasn't. Y'know since Kamiya left, made Bayonetta, and said she can beat Dante?

I think that when Kamiya left, he left with the notes of his work, so only he knows how to re- create that DMC 1 flavor. Capcom has actually tried re- creating DMC 1 when they made DMC 3.

I don't see how DMC1 not living up to DMC 3 and 4 combat changes what they said about the core of the series. Maybe they were going for that combat from the start, but took them 3 games to get it right. If I'm not mistaken the idea when it was RE4 was to have a Resident Evil with focus on Stylish Combat, so from the very start that was their goal.

Actually, Resident Evil 4 was just meant to be another RE game for awhile until they realized how far from the original framework they were going (Fun Fact: They went from Dante being an adventurous rich boy to a detective. The detective part of his design is the reason why you do so much exploring). They really weren't focusing much on combat during the development process. The whole "Stylish Combat" thing was more or less an advertisement thing for the new Hit Counter mechanic (the Style Ranking system). The whole combat system itself makes it highly difficult to keep a rank much less getting an S without using DT (A rank only lasts about two seconds from your last hit; normal gun shots didn't count- only sword, charged gun shots, or juggle attacks). So I think Capcom focused on Stylish Combat because style was one of DMC 1's unique (albeit less important) aspects.

 

[chocolatepanda]

Well in DmC enemies do have certain weaknesses with certain weapons like breaking shields with demon weapons and lifting the Tyrant with Erxy and shooting Rages to blind temporarily and also they've mentioned but havent really shown the exploration part of DmC so DMC1 is still in there along with the expanded combat from the other DMC games.

 

[chocolatepanda]

sorry for the double post

 

[AngelMode]

DMC1 was more of a survival game than other DMCs. But anyone who has gotten far enough into DMC1 will notice that the combat is indeed a major part of it. It's not about being quick and do juggle combos like other games but about how to adapt to situations and see the patterns in enemies in order to counter/defeat them easier so you don't get hit. So the combat is deep, but for a slightly different reason than... say, DMC3 and 4. The whole "stylish" thing about the combat does vary from game to game though so... I dunno what exactly you mean by "stylish" unless you point me to the one you are talking about.

So yes, I do believe the combat is a core aspect of the DMC franchise as a whole... it just changes from game to game. Now, I think DmC is obviously pushing towards the fast paced, "don't keep repeating the same move or else you get no stylish meter" sort of approach from DMC3 and 4. So yes, it isn't doing the same thing DMC1 was basically known for. But I think the concept that the combat is a very important thing that the game must get right is still there.

Notice how I don't bring up DMC2 on the discussion because I have no idea how to really describe it. The game was hard, the combat was almost slower than DMC1 but sometimes it almost turned into a TPS. It seems to belong as a DMC game and yet, not really. lol

Well in DmC enemies do have certain weaknesses with certain weapons like breaking shields with demon weapons and lifting the Tyrant with Erxy and shooting Rages to blind temporarily and also they've mentioned but havent really shown the exploration part of DmC so DMC1 is still in there along with the expanded combat from the other DMC games.

That is true, but some of these are very straight forward. In DMC1, they gave zero to no hints on how to beat the enemies, and some of the hints were designed to screw you over. In DmC you have things like "oh, I got a red enemy, I might need to use the demon weapon."

But overall, yeah, I can see a bit of DMC1 in DmC... not as much as 3 or 4, but still.

 

[Tiran]

I think this game will focus more on variety with enemy interaction. I remember Greg ( I think it was) talking about an enemy type that pulls out parts of it's own body and chucks it at you as an explosive. With proper timing, you can parry that and knock it back at them. So, more choice with how enemies are dealt with than just slashing and shooting. More control over physical attacks as well. Before, you just had to grab an enemy with the buster move to perform a special animated physical move against them. It was a one button command that did nothing but that. Now, there are a number of ways to kick punch and slam opponents at your command with a double tap of the claw. It's more controlled, not an automatic thing anymore.

 

[chocolatepanda]

That is true, but some of these are very straight forward. In DMC1, they gave zero to no hints on how to beat the enemies, and some of the hints were designed to screw you over. In DmC you have things like "oh, I got a red enemy, I might need to use the demon weapon."

Thats why i mentioned the Rages and Tyrant and not the colored coated enemies. Its shown that not all enemies are so straight forward and they are tricks to help kill them. To me the color coated drones are still fodder enemies like the Lusts from DMC3 or the varied scarecrows in DMC4 while the rage is more like the a Frost or Lizardman. So in dmc they might have tutorials for the less skill players to help kill stonger creatures but turn those off and im sure there will be plenty to figure out.

 

[Domenic93]

Thats why i mentioned the Rages and Tyrant and not the colored coated enemies. Its shown that not all enemies are so straight forward and they are tricks to help kill them. To me the color coated drones are still fodder enemies like the Lusts from DMC3 or the varied scarecrows in DMC4 while the rage is more like the a Frost or Lizardman. So in dmc they might have tutorials for the less skill players to help kill stonger creatures but turn those off and im sure there will be plenty to figure out.

when it comes to gaming beyond the basics for the game, I believe this generation of gaming/gamers needs to go to the school of hard knocks

 

[somekidfromthe90's]

So for the past three years, NT and Capcom have been saying that the core of the series has been perserved in DmC. However, what exactly is that core and what part of DmC perserves it?

They've been saying for the past three years that the core of DMC was its combat, which I believe is inaccurate. The reason being is that DMC 1 wasn't that fast- paced or even combat- focused: the Style ranking was basically a hit counter; you only had three weapons (only two of which had a DT) and about 5 guns (one of which is only usable in water); and you weren't able to switch them on the fly, you had to pause the game then choose a weapon; and the combat wasn't really "jazz"- like since most of the enemies had a specific way of being defeated.

So, when they're talking about the core of DMC, I believe they were talking about the core of DMC 2, 3, and 4 but not the franchise as a whole and DmC very well keeps the core of those games since free- form combat is still there.

But what about the core of DMC 1?

DMC 2- 4 never really emphasized on strategy and focus primarily on what you were able to do: Enemies had "wooden dummy"- like aspects, not having any major weaknesses; weapons became plentiful in terms of actions and movesets; and mechanics like Cancelling have been heavily empashized.

Really, it seems that the franchise doesn't just have one core but two: A form of combat based around experimentation and strategy and a form of combat based on personal expression. It is obvious that DmC is based on personal expression. So is the core of gameplay in DMC 1 supposed to be left behind?

In fact, which one should we consider to be the real core? Should we favor free- form combat over strategy- centered gameplay? Is one better than the other?

Personally, I would say that DmC can learn from DMC 1. So far, its going on a pretty good track. The Tyrants seem to be like mini- bosses and the Rages remind of the Blades. If they expand on this by giving enemies specific weakspots and weaknesses to certain attacks (beyond Angel or Demon mode), I could really fully enjoy it knowing that I would have to take time thinking about how I'm going to defeat my enemy. Sadly though, the strategies employed seem realy shallow. Hopefully, they would grow much more complex.

Didn't they show that you sometimes need a certain technique or strategy for certain enemies?

 

[Railazel]

Didn't they show that you sometimes need a certain technique or strategy for certain enemies?

Not really. The Tyrant drone did have a certain pattern at one point but all that flew out the window when Eryx came in and you were able to launch it in the air. The Rages have a pretty generic strategy that is basically the same as Agni and Rudra: Attack one and kill the other before it gets more powerful or try defeating both at the same time. The Stygnias(?) only have a specific weakness to either Angel or Demon mode but you could pretty much do whatever you want in that mode.

I want something more intense than that. The best example I could pull up are the Shadows where you had to shoot down their magic coating then attack the core with Stinger and back away from it to get away from its explosion. All the while, you have to dodge its spike attacks, bird slam, and bite attack, which isn't easy.

I think it would be cool if Tyrant had a shield for its belly that you had to break through with either Eryx or Arbiter then it would go on a rampage.