Something I miss from the old DMC UI.

[Exejpgwmv]

Although I'm pretty sure that if DmC had a hard lock on system like older the DMC's it would be significantly slower paced, harder to play (especially if it had a lock on like in DMC4), or just unplayable in situations like this:

at one 1:57

However I do miss being able to see how much health an enemy had left or at least some kind of indication when they are on low life. Not having this did make it kind of hard to prioritize enemies. And the only enemy that does this are the Butchers and even with them the mechanic can be a bit dodgy.
Anyone else with me on this?

 

[OppressedWriter]

Although I'm pretty sure that if DmC had a hard lock on system like older the DMC's it would be significantly slower paced, harder to play (especially if it had a lock on like in DMC4), or just unplayable in situations like this:

at one 1:57

However I do miss being able to see how much health an enemy had left or at least some kind of indication when they are on low life. Not having this did make it kind of hard to prioritize enemies. And the only enemy that does this are the Butchers and even with them the mechanic can be a bit dodgy.
Anyone else with me on this?

That's sort of the point, malik. The priotization isn't supposed to be that mechanical, like oh this first, then this, its more like who should I interrupt or dodge while just pushing forward. The challenge is really how long can you string a combo without stopping or getting hit. The enemies really do set up their attacks so you have ways to react without getting hit, and it really adds a natural sense of rhythm to the combat in the game. If you just killed targets one by one, it takes away the fun that comes from managing the crowd. Dante overpowers every enemy in one on one combat, its only when they are constantly trying to mess up his combo flow in groups that the game gets challenging and really, really fun.

Also, one of the best things is what I see some people who don't understand target prioritization complain about. Dante auto aims if you don't press a direction, but this is always in direction of the the next enemy that is about to interrupt you. That's why more often then not, when you have two flying enemies in front of you, and one is about to shoot, and you demon pull or angel pull dante 99% of the time grabs the right one. This is one of the subtle reasons that DmC's fluid lock on system is better than the old system, it dynamically assists the player as long as they are approximately correct in the direction they press the left stick when trying to stop or evade ranged and close enemy attacks.

Finally, about the health, while I totally feel ya, I don't think the visual reticule would go well with the aesthetic of DmC, its much more stylish to just see yourself putting the hurt on demons, and as for life, I guess you could play as much as me and kinda get a feel for how much it takes to kill each enemy and how far you are into it. .

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Yeah, see...as much as I miss an indicator like that, DmC works well enough in its combat that either you dance around and smash different enemies, or you're singling one out and beating them into submission before moving onto the next.

 

[Railazel]

For guys like me who are more strategy- oriented, the lock- on was pretty handy, it allowed you to prioritize what enemies you wanted to face first. Auto- lock isn't bad at all but it helps knowing how much damage an attack does so I can know what weaknesses each enemy has but, sadly, the series as a whole sort of drove away from that.

 

[OppressedWriter]

For guys like me who are more strategy- oriented, the lock- on was pretty handy, it allowed you to prioritize what enemies you wanted to face first. Auto- lock isn't bad at all but it helps knowing how much damage an attack does so I can know what weaknesses each enemy has but, sadly, the series as a whole sort of drove away from that.

Well, the tactics still exist, you can still isolate targets, but you have to do it using moves and on the fly (that is tactics). It's just not as rigid and slow as it was before, where you walked slowly and painfully killed one enemy at the time. DmC is about knowing when to use crowd control weapons/charged shots/fireworks, etc to keep enemies from interrupting your combo. If you corner an enemy with stingers, aquilas dashes, and the various gun attacks, you should have no problem isolating most targets for punishment. It's only enemies like Harpies and Cherubs, which are deliberately hard to take out one by one, although even there, a well placed shotgun blast or ricoshot does the trick. I honestly still find it confounding the obsession or misunderstanding of the lock on system in DmC. It's not auto lockin gfor ****s and giggles, it locks onto the target directly in front of dante and always gives precedence to the way you're tilting the left stick. The stick is lock, keep holding it towards an enemy and it will stay locked on.

 

[Railazel]

Well, the tactics still exist, you can still isolate targets, but you have to do it using moves and on the fly (that is tactics). It's just not as rigid and slow as it was before, where you walked slowly and painfully killed one enemy at the time. DmC is about knowing when to use crowd control weapons/charged shots/fireworks, etc to keep enemies from interrupting your combo. If you corner an enemy with stingers, aquilas dashes, and the various gun attacks, you should have no problem isolating most targets for punishment. It's only enemies like Harpies and Cherubs, which are deliberately hard to take out one by one, although even there, a well placed shotgun blast or ricoshot does the trick.

Isolating isn't the problem, it's the steps that I have to take in order to do so is. Not that I'm complaining, I enjoy the game's gameplay, it's just that I feel that giving enemies weaknesses gives a person the option of taking shortcuts. I mean, I've tried and so far none of the enemies except the bosses and the colored enemies have weaknesses to anything and I can't tell because the majority of damage I'm dishing is done while I'm isolating them.

I honestly still find it confounding the obsession or misunderstanding of the lock on system in DmC. It's not auto lockin gfor ****s and giggles...

Well, you have to understand that the majority of DMC players are used to lock- on being on a button so it didn't make sense to get rid of that button and replace it with two others. Furthermore, the majority of gamers don't experiment enough with their games to get into the more finer details of the gameplay. Combine those two factors and you have the result of people thing that DmC's lock- on system is confusing and bad.

 

[OppressedWriter]

I mean, I've tried and so far none of the enemies except the bosses and the colored enemies have weaknesses to anything and I can't tell because the majority of damage I'm dishing is done while I'm isolating them.

Because making them weak to a specific attack would negate the whole purpose of DmC, its about doing stylish combos and being flexible and creative, you can kill them faster with strong weapons or mix it up for maximum points. And like I said, lock on exists its just on the left stick which is much more natural than wasting a button on it.

Also, weapons don't do higher or lower damage based on the enemy type, its mainly default values modified by charge attacks/demon dodges/ or osiris charge ups, so once you know the health of the enemies you know how many hits it takes to kill them.

Can you give me an example of a situation from an actual enemy encounter during the game. Don't make one up, because I want to do a video of the same encounter to better illustrate my point.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Furthermore, the majority of gamers don't experiment enough with their games to get into the more finer details of the gameplay. Combine those two factors and you have the result of people thing that DmC's lock- on system is confusing and bad.

The ironic part of this is that the DMC community is very well-known to experiment heavily on the games to see what little quirks they can find and exploit, and yet in DmC something so simple as the lock system seems to go over people's heads >.>

 

[Railazel]

Because making them weak to a specific attack would negate the whole purpose of DmC, its about doing stylish combos and being flexible and creative, you can kill them faster with strong weapons or mix it up for maximum points. And like I said, lock on exists its just on the left stick which is much more natural than wasting a button on it.

Also, weapons don't do higher or lower damage based on the enemy type, its mainly default values modified by charge attacks/demon dodges/ or osiris charge ups, so once you know the health of the enemies you know how many hits it takes to kill them.

Can you give me an example of a situation from an actual enemy encounter during the game. Don't make one up, because I want to do a video of the same encounter to better illustrate my point.

A good example would be Ravager's second appearance in Paradise Mansion (Chapter Two).

The ironic part of this is that the DMC community is very well-known to experiment heavily on the games to see what little quirks they can find and exploit, and yet in DmC something so simple as the lock system seems to go over people's heads >.>

This also goes into other mechanics of the game like cancelling. Some think that cancelling has become too easy despite that even the most adept players have to re- learn jump cancelling and that DmC brings nothing new despite Brea showcasing about ten or so (I think) in one video (and that was just the demo!). These same detractors have yet to actually experiment for themselves.

 

[OppressedWriter]

A good example would be Ravager's second appearance in Paradise Mansion (Chapter Two).

What difficulty, and what is the issue you're having?

 

[Railazel]

What difficulty, and what is the issue you're having?

Primarily Hard or Must Die. As for an issue, its just isolating the Ravager with least amount of damage possible so I can better understand how much damage following attacks will do but goshdarnit those Stygians are a problem.

 

[OppressedWriter]

Primarily Hard or Must Die. As for an issue, its just isolating the Ravager with least amount of damage possible so I can better understand how much damage following attacks will do but goshdarnit those Stygians are a problem.

Aquilas and Osiris are the weapons to use for those mobs, ideally you're supposed to kill them as a whole, why is the ravager so important to isolate, he's not that much more of a threat than the otehr enemies. It's mainly about taking them all aerial and putting the hurt on them. Or Osiris prop shredding them.

IF you just want to practice combos, just use Super Dante, and kill the rest of the mobs, and then deactivate and practice how much damage attacks do to the ravager without DT active.

 

[Railazel]

why is the ravager so important to isolate?

It's not that he's important. The example I gave you was from an early experience I had trying to determine the details of his super armor such as does it actually shield him from damage or just prevent him from staggering? If it just keeps him from staggering, does it reduce the damage he takes? I have to isolate him in order to be able to answer those questions but, back then, I was too naive to not have considered that I wouldn't be able to do so without some kind of health bar. So, yeah, that's why I need to tips on isolating him and other enemies.

 

[OppressedWriter]

It's not that he's important. The example I gave you was from an early experience I had trying to determine the details of his super armor such as does it actually shield him from damage or just prevent him from staggering? If it just keeps him from staggering, does it reduce the damage he takes? I have to isolate him in order to be able to answer those questions but, back then, I was too naive to not have considered that I wouldn't be able to do so without some kind of health bar. So, yeah, that's why I need to tips on isolating him and other enemies.

The Super Armor or devil trigger or anything invul for that matter can be broken by a well placed Parry from any weapon, preferably Eryx for the invul charges they do, although Trinity Smash also works.

Additionally, 3+ kabloeey darts work, a skilled ricoshot (meaning you release it right as it reaches the 3rd glow), and a skilled shotgun bomb (same as ricoshot, right as it reaches 2nd glow).

This works for every enemy aside from the witch. The whole game is based around holding and letting go, so its easier once you start thinking of the right weapon for the right attack. If a group is attacking you, you want group weapons, and so forth...

As for damage, when they devil trigger it increases their health a slight bit like the older DMC games, but as for the damage and health during their invul charges, the damage is pretty much the same just no stagger unless you parry. The only enemy that takes less damage is the tyrant, but its simple if you're attacking him in his back or anywhere else. The back is nromal damage, the rest is like 25% or even lower damage.

 

[Railazel]

As for damage, when they devil trigger it increases their health a slight bit like the older DMC games, but as for the damage and health during their invul charges, the damage is pretty much the same just no stagger unless you parry.

I see, figured as much.

The only enemy that takes less damage is the tyrant, but its simple if you're attacking him in his back or anywhere else. The back is nromal damage, the rest is like 25% or even lower damage.

I would never have guessed that. Other than the fact that he's a brute and, obviously, would take less damage than other enemies, I wouldn't have figured that the rest of his body took less damage than his back but it seems kind of obvious now that I look at it in hindsight.

The Super Armor or devil trigger or anything invul for that matter can be broken by a well placed Parry from any weapon, preferably Eryx for the invul charges they do, although Trinity Smash also works.

Additionally, 3+ kabloeey darts work, a skilled ricoshot (meaning you release it right as it reaches the 3rd glow), and a skilled shotgun bomb (same as ricoshot, right as it reaches 2nd glow).

Huh... I would imagine that Kablooey could take out Super Armor but a parry is quite unexpected, though it does make sense.

Ah, but back to original topic, I believe a simple "lock- on" mod of sorts would quell any further complaints or issues.