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So, those millions of people Vergil got killed... again.(SPOILERS)

Goldsickle

Well-known Member
I m not talking about the final battle but the fact that vergil want force edge to power up instead of simply training
He's already trained and powerful.
It's just how he dealt with his defeat with Dante is something I'd describe as "immature".

Blaming on his human side, rather than just acknowledging that Dante bested him and to try harder.

It's like if someone blamed his defeat on his controller, which is the exact same type his opponent uses.
His human side make him weak?
What about Dante's human side?

Vergil of all people is also the last person I'd expect to "mutate into a giant monster" as a boss.
The more I look into it, the more and more my impression of him is chipping away.
Like I said, he's not a "badly written character", it's just that I have a particular expectation of him.

Also I ask you how I should improve my post even if I don't see any problem in it
Separate your text into paragraphs instead of just typing mindlessly.
Watch how I type and how I separate my texts into paragraphs.
I know we don't remember everything we learn in school but writing wall of texts is one way to create a negative impression of yourself.

You may proceed with the "I don't see any problem with it" or tell yourself "if a staff here didn't see what's wrong, then nothing is wrong".
Continue your course in the wrong place and you may find a lot of people either hating you or not taking you seriously.
 

V

Oldschool DMC fan
Good luck with the idea Vergil deserves justice visited on his ass. Might as well say Sparda deserved it too, after serving Mundus for so long in "the war" between the human world and the demon world, and only later deciding to help humans out. How many countless humans did Sparda see enslaved or killed, before turning on his own kind and killing countless numbers of them too? And who would even visit this 'justice' on beings that are basically like demi gods at this point? You might as well say Zeus should have had his ass kicked. Who's going to "punish" the sons of Sparda?

In any case, Vergil is apathetic to the case of humans for the most part, but since Visions of V is canon he's not entirely so - he does attempt to help humans escape from the Qliphoth in the city and saves a boy and his mother from roaming packs of demons because he sees himself in them. Vergil doesn't even consider himself human, so that's an act of charity for starters, even though most of the humans just consider him a freak for having the power in the first place to help them. With that kind of treatment, it's no wonder he doesn't care. Humans are more than happy to kill demons and a demon is what he considers himself to be. Asking him to give a damn about humans as a whole when he's an almost entirely pragmatic and logical creature seeking immediate self-preservation and empowerment is futile. This is a guy who knows Mundus' minions are going to come for him someday, thanks to their grudge against Sparda, as well as most likely guessing the demon hordes/Mundus intend to rule the human world again (which is the case of course in DMC1). Even if he doesn't gain enough power to defeat Mundus himself, it still makes more than enough sense that he must gain more power, because one way or another the demons and Mundus are an ever-present threat to both himself and the human world.

Even if you argue Vergil shouldn't have raised the tower, or that Dante ended up being just as powerful without having done the same things, that's leaving aside the fact Vergil was the one who truly awakened Dante's powers, not to mention his motivation to fight. Dante got powerful in no small part thanks to Vergil's actions. Dante, if he were ever going to truly try to protect the human world from the ultimate threat, couldn't do it without the demonic power gained from the previous action of freeing and incorporating the Sparda sword... which could only have been reached by Vergil's deliberate actions.

Besides, the sons of Sparda are not human, it's shown time and again they have very little in common with humans, and humanity is fortunate even one of them cares enough to bother about them at all. In the end, both cared enough to chop down the tree and stay in the Underworld. It's a human-centric view to assume these two owe their allegiance to humanity when it's clear most humans treat them with contempt. Enzo using Dante, Lady trying to kill Dante and badmouthing him for almost the entire game of 3, the humans in the city looking down on V for helping them, even the Fortuna order were just using demons and Sparda for their own nefarious purposes... if anything Dante fights demons not for humans but just to satisfy his own sense of righteousness/revenge.

From a risk/benefit analysis perspective, the collateral damage from Vergil's actions was worth it because as a result both he and Dante ended up being uber-powerful protectors toward humanity and not enslavers.

The demon world is still there and is still full of potential Munduses desiring to rule both the Underworld and the human world someday. Better they exist in their powerful forms now than if they never had, because without them the humans do not stand a snowball's chance.
 

ShiningTempest

Well-known Member
Here is a really good way to whitewash Vergil from all his crimes.
Who killed the city? Urizen? or the Qlipoth?
The game says that the Qlipoth grows from hell and sucks the blood from humans to create the fruit.
Well what if the Qlipoth just randomly grows and Urizen happened to take control of it?
We see other demons like Goliath trying to eat the fruit. So there is no evidece that Urizen himself created the Qlipoth.
Well what about Urizen doing all that evil stuff? Thats Urizen. Not vergil he dont even have the same mental state.
But Vergil separated himself using the Yamato.
When Vergil separated himself he was still under Mundus's mind control and is memories were messed up again, Vergil was not in his usual mental state.
How was he STILL under Mundus's mind control? Dante beat Mundus. Yes he beat Mundus not killed Mundus. Mundus is immortal and still alive during the time when Vergil split himself.
Well if he does something like this wont he do it again?
How about no? V is actually Vergil who didnt lose his family and just wants to read poetry. V spend all that time with Nero who Vergil later acknowledged as his son. All that developement carried into Vergil. Also current Vergil would stomp Mundus into the ground so hes fine now?
The main idea here is Vergil as of now is pretty innocent if you want a legal argument about his prosecution.
 

devil_inside123

The devil in the dark
Here is a really good way to whitewash Vergil from all his crimes.
Who killed the city? Urizen? or the Qlipoth?
The game says that the Qlipoth grows from hell and sucks the blood from humans to create the fruit.
Well what if the Qlipoth just randomly grows and Urizen happened to take control of it?
We see other demons like Goliath trying to eat the fruit. So there is no evidece that Urizen himself created the Qlipoth.
Well what about Urizen doing all that evil stuff? Thats Urizen. Not vergil he dont even have the same mental state.
But Vergil separated himself using the Yamato.
When Vergil separated himself he was still under Mundus's mind control and is memories were messed up again, Vergil was not in his usual mental state.
How was he STILL under Mundus's mind control? Dante beat Mundus. Yes he beat Mundus not killed Mundus. Mundus is immortal and still alive during the time when Vergil split himself.
Well if he does something like this wont he do it again?
How about no? V is actually Vergil who didnt lose his family and just wants to read poetry. V spend all that time with Nero who Vergil later acknowledged as his son. All that developement carried into Vergil. Also current Vergil would stomp Mundus into the ground so hes fine now?
The main idea here is Vergil as of now is pretty innocent if you want a legal argument about his prosecution.
I do have a problem with people claiming V was just Vergil without demonic power, that implies that vergil's personality is somehow centralized entirely in his human half which I just don't believe is true. We've seen that sparda had a personality so it could be urizen just took vergil's more agressive traits with his power in the split but I believe the reformed Vergil takes just as much development from urizen as he does V, otherwise he wouldn't have the information of his mother dying while searching for him
 

DarkSlayerVergil

Well-known Member
I do have a problem with people claiming V was just Vergil without demonic power, that implies that vergil's personality is somehow centralized entirely in his human half which I just don't believe is true. We've seen that sparda had a personality so it could be urizen just took vergil's more agressive traits with his power in the split but I believe the reformed Vergil takes just as much development from urizen as he does V, otherwise he wouldn't have the information of his mother dying while searching for him
Yeah almost like people only want Vergil to take the credit for what V did and not what Urizen done completely ignoring that if Vergil gotten Sparda power in 3 he would of most definitely did what Urizen has done in 5.
 

BlackAngel

Well-known Member
I think the writers are just lazy and incompetent to make a story. So they copy/paste the story from DMC3 where Vergil and Arkham unlocked the Temi-ni-gru tower and enter hell to gain Sparda's power, just with new characters and a tree with human blood and the evil Vergil want to gain strength. It's like the writers cant come up with nothing original or at least a decent story. It's shameful, really.
 

BlackAngel

Well-known Member
By the way, the manga ended yesterday.
I liked the manga better than the game's story. At least the manga showed why Vergil is the way he is, and how he was misguided by his own pain. That he thought human emotions made him weak, so he would do anything to gain strength and forsake his humanity.
 

Taramafor

Well-known Member
You don't get through to monsters by playing the blame game and guilting them.

Trust me on this one. I know them in real life. "No regrets". It's still about the responsibility though. Agreements were formed and he decided to cut the tree down. Don't take him at his word. Take him at his actions.

Virgil is also the one to make it about the safety of others even if attacked. Dante is the one always pointing the weapon first. Good intentions don't change the fact he's starting the fights. If all people do is blame each other then the fighting would never end. If all people did was make it about sympathy and beating yourself up then that's how people end up like Urizen. Virgil sees his past actions as something to learn from instead. He knows what he did. He makes no excuses. Judge him, blame him. Go ahead. What's in it for him to do anything different?

Nero was the only one to give him that reason. Same goes for Luke in Star Wars with Vader. GIVE Virgil a reason to care. Or he aren't got a reason. Capeesh?
 

Benny

Active Member
Capcom's attempt at bringing Vergil back to the good guys team was... something. Vergil, no not really Vergil, I mean his demon half (still not Vergil completely okay) killed many people with the tree for power. Then he got his cake eaten and had fun with Dante in Hell. Not only that but Vergil also got entire manga VoV psychoanalyzed his mindset through V to make people sympathi- I mean understand his character more. No one in DMC but Vergil received this kind of special treatment. I as a Dante fan probably will turn into skeleton if I wait for Dante to have his own introspection manga like Vergil :ROFL:

Virgil is also the one to make it about the safety of others even if attacked. Dante is the one always pointing the weapon first. Good intentions don't change the fact he's starting the fights.
"Ey Vergil, your portal opening days are over. Give me the Yamato."
"Listen to me. I told you already. This is not your-" *gets bitchslapped*
"You can stay and die or you can walk your ugly ass back through that gate."
"Flock off feather face! Or you can stick around and find out the hard way!"
"No! You can't fight with that wound!" (This is after Dante defeated Griffon in dmc1 in case you don't know)

Come on, you can't just make Dante as an aggressor everytime like that.
 
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V's patron

be loyal to what matters
DMC5 fumbled the ball with Vergil's potential redemption but it's something they could smooth out in future titles.

Rehabilitation is an ongoing process so keeping it a subplot in future titles is a way to smooth it out.
 

ef9dante_oSsshea

Well-known Member
Premium
Xen-Omni 2020
Maybe vergil can atone by being the big hero who saves humanity in a dmc game in the future, at no cost at all

Just because it is the right thing to do.
 
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