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Rebuilding Vergil.

I can't be the only person who felt that Vergil in DMC3 felt like a half a**ed rush job. The pre -Nelo concept of him was awesome but felt like a wasted opportunity.

Below I've listed some things I've often thought would give the character more depth and uniqueness when it comes to his human incarnation.


Remove summoned swords
For me this is priority one. Summoned swords are Nelo Angelo's thing and are an important trait of Nelo's character and how he is a different beast to the character of Vergil, he shouldn't need them. I liked seeing them in DMC3 but only as an easter egg in DMD.
(Of course this leaves a big gap in his long range capability which I will attempt to fill later)


Remove Beowolf and Force Edge
My reasoning for this is 2 fold. Firstly the significance of Yamato to Vergil makes the adoption of any other weapon, not a complete contradiction of his character but I feel it heavily betrays it.
Secondly the entire concept behind Vergil is that he is the polar opposite to Dante, to borrow a famous quote from Bruce Lee;
"I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times"

Dante is symbolically the former, kicking *** with whatever devil arm he can get his hands on so Vergil should be the latter especially as his character is so heavily built on the mannerisms of a samuri his focus should be on Yamato and learning to wield it in the most efficient, flawless and deadly way possible. Like they do in Iaido


Remap the buttons/adapt the formula
Change the default "gun" button to a secondary style button. Vergil now has an offensive style and a defensive style active simultaneously.
Our gun button can now be exclusively mapped to a non-attack focused style such as
Darkslayer ability for closing distances and evading attacks, Royalguard or maybe even something along the lines of Kafka from Bayonetta so as not to completely rob him of ranged weapons but give him something more eastern and grounded.
And our standard style button can now be focused on introducing depth to Yamato. How? By venturing out of Iaido based combat and introducing more depth and variety to the sword itself.

Styles from the likes of ancient China, South Korea, the Philippines, anywhere that Vergil could get more knowledge of what Yamato was capable of in combat. (but keep it eastern as that really compliments the yin and yang thing with the two brothers)
And most importantly both the standard melee button and our offensive style button are can be assigned to any of these and all of them would have their own separate 3 level tiers.

And finally...
Borrowing a beat from Nero.
Very simple, like Nero we now have a shoulder button not doing all that much so take the IR mechanic and adapt it to Vergil. Only instead of a charge inside the sword it would be an optional mechanic during combat that enables the player to charge and manipulate the damage they inflict. By either releasing it during an attack increasing the damage inflicted or releasing it ala the judgement cut end using a delayed hitstun effect. This would be a system that would vary according to the precision of the timing same as max rev.
Ultimately I feel vergil should have been a character that was intended to be advanced, to give the game further longevity by introducing a second playable character that was much harder to master but twice as rewarding once you did.


***tl;dr***

Get rid of Summoned swords, get rid of force edge and beo, introduce more depth to Yamato in their place along with a button remap that shifts more focus to closing distance and perfecting technique.

Of course this is all coming from a place of "if we could go back in time" i'm in no way suggesting this is something that should be implemented in the future. More like a simple "what if"
 

Redgrave Kyo

Unusual sight
Those are issues to be adressed if there is a Devil May Cry 5 and Vergil appears as a canonical character for the story. I do not agree with Summoned Swords though. Yeah it appeared with Nelo, but as we knew Vergil only in such a form at this point, defining this as a characteristic is not possible ; something that was made in gameplay when DMC3 occured. Nelo never used Summoned Swords in cutscenes, nor Vergil did, which is a fact supporting my point. And if that's of any relevance, DmC Vergil made that a trait of his own with SS usage during cutscenes (using the reboot to justify a point ? Gtfo Kyo).

Some ideas are interesting but they have to be within the high speed trait of Devil May Cry's gameplay.
 
Those are issues to be adressed if there is a Devil May Cry 5 and Vergil appears as a canonical character for the story. I do not agree with Summoned Swords though. Yeah it appeared with Nelo, but as we knew Vergil only in such a form at this point, defining this as a characteristic is not possible ; something that was made in gameplay when DMC3 occured. Nelo never used Summoned Swords in cutscenes, nor Vergil did, which is a fact supporting my point. And if that's of any relevance, DmC Vergil made that a trait of his own with SS usage during cutscenes (using the reboot to justify a point ? Gtfo Kyo).

Some ideas are interesting but they have to be within the high speed trait of Devil May Cry's gameplay.
I think I would have much less of a problem with them if they had just included the DT depleting moves to keep it a little more reserved.
But as something that can just be mindlessly spammed whilst you are performing melee attacks feels not only needlessly OP but also something Vergil would never feel the need to resort to. Too sloppy.
 

Redgrave Kyo

Unusual sight
Minus Spiral Swords, there's already a limit of one advanced SS move you can use at a time, which is fairly enough.
 

berto

I Saw the Devil
Moderator
For the most part my only complain to Vergil is that the weapons are the same for every game he's in. If there is a DMC5 and Vergil is playable and his layout is just the same as 3 and 4 but with variations on the moves I'm going to be p***ed.
 

Redgrave Kyo

Unusual sight
"Every game" well, it's been two so far, and the timeline (and budget) makes it that they rather had him retain his usual weapon set with expanded moveset. Which was totally fine. Now yeah, he needs some new stuff ; but in a way I can't imagine him have and do anything else.
 

Wuodan

Present Day. Present Time.
I'm sorry but for almost everything you want to change about him, I want them to stay the same. For example, I think summoned swords are just a cool way for a guy who despises guns to have a long range weapon, they suit his overall aesthetics too. And his scenes with Beowulf are just so cool to get rid of. You see a little smug side of him with that, nothing else shows him remotely enjoying combat. It's nice to see him smile even if for a fun new little weapon...

I partly agree on Force Edge since it's basically a normal sword before awakening and also sort of a relic but I have no problem with that too.

And for everything else, like playstyle issues, I believe DMC4SE adressed all of those. Concentration mechanic is just screaming "Vergil!" and with his instant judgement cuts and freedom of teleportations (the more so in DT) he is already full of depth.

I understand why you find these stuff problematic but they just aren't really issues for me. I enjoy most of them.
 
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NoxiousDonny

Well-known Member
Was DMC3 made knowing they might do playable Vergil for the Special Edition? I know he was playable in vanilla DMC3 if you plugged in a second controller during the Arkham bossfight, no idea if the gameplay during the Arkham bossfight for player 2 is the same as DMC3SE Vergil though. Some of you would probably know?
 

Redgrave Kyo

Unusual sight
I'm sorry but for almost everything you want to change about him, I want them to stay the same. For example, I think summoned swords are just a cool way for a guy who despises guns to have a long range weapon, they suit his overall aesthetics too. And his scenes with Beowulf are just so cool to get rid of. You see a little smug side of him with that, nothing else shows him remotely enjoying combat. It's nice to see him smile even if for a fun new little weapon...

I partly agree on Force Edge since it's basically a normal sword before awakening and also sort of a relic but I have no problem with that too.

And for everything else, like playstyle issues, I believe DMC4SE adressed all of those. Concentration mechanic is just screaming "Vergil!" and with his instant judgement cuts and freedom of teleportations (the more so in DT) he is already full of depth.

I understand why you find these stuff problematic but they just aren't really issues for me. I enjoy most of them.

Y E S
E
S

That being said, DMC4SE Vergil has been mostly saved by glitches on the stylish scene.
 

Foxtrot94

Elite Hunter
Premium
That being said, DMC4SE Vergil has been mostly saved by glitches on the stylish scene.

What do you mean? None of what Wuodan mentioned - Concentration, instant Judgement Cuts, and Grim Trick - are glitches, they're all intentional mechanics.

Although I would change his teleportation mechanics from his DMC4SE rendition. Having to embed a Summoned Sword into an enemy to teleport to it kinda bugs me. I think his teleports in DMC3 were better.
 

Redgrave Kyo

Unusual sight
What do you mean? None of what Wuodan mentioned - Concentration, instant Judgement Cuts, and Grim Trick - are glitches, they're all intentional mechanics.

Although I would change his teleportation mechanics from his DMC4SE rendition. Having to embed a Summoned Sword into an enemy to teleport to it kinda bugs me. I think his teleports in DMC3 were better.

Judgement Cut Cancelling, Round Trip glitch, Trick Cancel moves (Kick 13, Drive and Judgement Cut End, Inertia Judgement Cuts) and a couple of weird stuff (Storm Swords' effects on Frost, making the Angelo stand in their air and stunned as if it was on the ground). Those are pretty big stuff, which makes Vergil a deep character. You would have only a third of the current Vergil footage if those things weren't here.
 

Zoey

Well-known Member
I'd like Summoned Swords to stay. Also Spiral Swords, Heavy Rain Swords and Judgment Cut End.
Not very fond of Beowulf, myself, and Force Edge too, although my opinion might be unpopular.

Will be crushed if Itsuno's new game isn't DMC5.
Same. I will be gutted.
 

devil_inside123

The devil in the dark
For the most part my only complain to Vergil is that the weapons are the same for every game he's in. If there is a DMC5 and Vergil is playable and his layout is just the same as 3 and 4 but with variations on the moves I'm going to be p***ed.
To be fair since Vergil has only appeared in one game canonically they only have one Vergil tempted to go on, where Dante has 4 games to choose his move set from, since Vergil isn't really part of the plot from DMC4 what weapons would u give him? Would u just want all of Dantes weapons transfered to him? Its the reason neither lady nor Trish got any weapons either. If DMC5 happens and Vergil is a part of the plot then they should give him new weapons, DMC characters have never gotten new weapons without showing how they got it. And it would feel wasteful to give Vergil awesome new weapons when he's just an extra uninvolved character
 

AgentRedgrave

Legendary Devil Hunter
Yeah, no offense. But I literally disagree with all of that.
For one, he had to have a long range option, using something like Summoned Swords gives him a ranged attack, while also showing his preference for power and magic over something mundane as guns.

As for Beowulf and Force Edge, as awesome as Yamato is, only giving him one weapon to fight with would eventually get boring for most people

I mean why do you think I have more fun playing as Vergil in DMC3/DMC4 then DmC? (even though I do like the fact DmC Vergil at-least got his own story arc) One's got three weapons, the other's got one.

"I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times"

Well take this logic, and apply it to the fact that Dante has four main styles (with two more unlock-able in DMC3, and one more in DMC4, though it's just fighting with Yamato) while Vergil only has one
 

Ronin

Let's rock, baby!
Any new weapons in mind that can suit Vergil? Not just when he used Yamato, Beowulf & Force Edge.

And he needs some firearms in his arsenal.
 

Lain

Earthbound Immortal
Premium
No he doesn't. Not using firearms is a prominent characteristic of his style.
Hmm...perhaps.

Then again, it would be interesting from a character building standpoint to see Vergil grow to respect humans and slowly implement firearms into his arsenal. Or something like that anyways...
 

ToCool74

"Fair" DmC Skeptic
Premium
Hmm...perhaps.

Then again, it would be interesting from a character building standpoint to see Vergil grow to respect humans and slowly implement firearms into his arsenal. Or something like that anyways...

I disagree, as Foxtrote pointed out it would go against his established character at this point and him actively using firearms would not only feel weird and out of place but it would also not fit his over all style IMO.

It would be like turning a slugger/rough sword fighter like Nero into a refined swordsman who uses a rapier instead, just does not mix well, even when Vergil used a gun briefly in DMC3 for the jackpot move I still remember thinking how weird it is to see Vergil using a gun even briefly.
 
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