more difficult than DMC3?

[hinge]

Hi there, I'm a long time lurker who is really frustrated with DMC4...

I understand that the general consensus is that DMC3 is harder than 4 -- which I fail to understand. I think the enemies in 4 are much more annoying and troublesome to deal with, and when I play 4, I don't feel very much like a Son of Sparda. I'd like to hear what some of the "pros" among you have to say about this.

(warning: giant first-time post. I apologize.)

Before I start ranting, I've played DMC3 quite a bit, and I think I'm tolerably good at it. No SS ranks, but I can hold my own on Very Hard mode (DMD is a nightmare). I haven't played 4 enough to remember which way to go on each mission. I'm not a pro, but I don't suck.

Except at DMC4. It seems that almost every enemy in this game has either annoying behavior (bouncing around like arachnes from 3), some kind of shield (like the fallen), super fast non telegraphed moves (think hell lust uppercut), or a combination. Also, they react to your attacks as if they are in devil trigger, when they AREN'T in DT.

Some examples (well, just about every enemy...):

Frosts - first, I would like to say that these are pretty cool. I recall they have some five different attacks to deal with Nero/Dante at any range. That's good AI design. However, when you actually hit these critters, they barely seem to flinch. Hightime and any other moves that knockback only work on the second time. For example, it won't flinch if you stinger it's face, but you will get your knock back on the second stinger. Isn't this the kind of behavior you'd only expect from DT'd enemies?? Also, I have seen Frosts, as well as those lizards, ESCAPE a DANCE MACABRE, and even an aerial rave!

Sorry this post has gotten way too long. But what do you guys think? It seems as if almost every enemy in DMC4 acts like a Fallen/Arachne hybrid -- WHEN NOT IN DT.

/rant.

 

[Darth Angelo]

I didn't like the enemies in 3 just because they seemed a bit too gimicky and annoying like you CAN'T attack them when your facing them or you CAN'T attack them unless you have turned them into stone first or you can ONLY attack them from dead centre behind.

A lot of the enemies in 4 are a massive pain as well like anything that becomes infused with Chimera, those things that come out of the ground, Cutlass, Gladius and Basilisk.
I didn't mind the Frosts so much maybe just because I associated them so much with massive difficulty I automaticly am on my highest guard when I see them and don't expect them to be made of anything but an icy granite with inteligence to boot.
I mean the whole point of them was that they were the best Mundus had to offer. Only makes sense for them to be a massive pain in the arse. Same with Blitz, I didn't mind his annoying gimmicky defeat strategy because he looks the part, big, bad and mean.

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

Most enemies can be stunned out of an attack with Nero's Devil Bringer. However, it seems you're talking specifically about Dante.

Sadly, these enemies were not designed for Dante. They are strong and either very light, where they go flying after a combo, or very heavy, where they don't move at all. The best thing to do as Dante is get used to using the Trickster style, so you can make gaps or close them easily.

 

[Darkstar Darin]

The best thing to do as Dante is get used to using the Trickster style, so you can make gaps or close them easily.

somehow i knew somebody would say that, maybe it's just me but does anyone think that enemies in DMD mode were too overpowered? seriously, i don't die fighting lesser demons...

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

somehow i knew somebody would say that, maybe it's just me but does anyone think that enemies in DMD mode were too overpowered? seriously, i don't die fighting lesser demons...

You aren't the only one. After I beat DMD, I never looked at it again.

 

[Darkstar Darin]

i haven't beaten it...i think i'm stuck on mission 3...

 

[hinge]

Most enemies can be stunned out of an attack with Nero's Devil Bringer. However, it seems you're talking specifically about Dante.

Sadly, these enemies were not designed for Dante.

I admit it is easier as Nero, since I can just snatch-interrupt most things. I also noticed that things like Frosts and Assaults are immune to juggle/knockback when they are already down, and when they are in the process of getting up. That bothers me. And speaking of Assaults, since when do lizards fly? Chimera=wings?

I prefer playing as Dante, and he is supposed to be able to juggle/knockback most demons AT WILL. Maybe I'm just too used to DMC3's mechanics. Still don't get why most people say 3 is harder.

 

[hinge]

*bump*

Come on people, opinions anyone? I don't want to be the only person who thinks DMC4 is hard when it's supposed to be easier than 3...

 

[aka958]

Most enemies can be stunned out of an attack with Nero's Devil Bringer. However, it seems you're talking specifically about Dante.

Sadly, these enemies were not designed for Dante. They are strong and either very light, where they go flying after a combo, or very heavy, where they don't move at all. The best thing to do as Dante is get used to using the Trickster style, so you can make gaps or close them easily.

Durr, no. Not at all. Dante's moveset is flexible enough to kill any creature. It requires more effort though because it's advanced. The best thing to do is learn how to instantly switch devil arms, guns, and style.

I'll give a deeper explanation when I have acess to a computer to write with.

 

[Vergil'sBitch]

I thought DMC3 was easier than this game.
DMC4 now sits on the shelf gathering dust (especially the 360 version). Sanctus Diabloica (?) really gets on my nerves. I was exhausted when i finally beat him on Devil hunter mode.

Apart from santus i really hated those things that appear from lightning. *can't remember what they're called*

 

[aka958]

somehow i knew somebody would say that, maybe it's just me but does anyone think that enemies in DMD mode were too overpowered? seriously, i don't die fighting lesser demons...

It's a difficulty. You can't handle it then it proves to be too difficult for you. You still have lesser difficulties at your choosing. Me, I think that DMD is too little for me. Sometimes enemies just die too damn fast and most of them... easy. Some can really get to me (Blitz when I play as Dante for example) but then can still very easily be disposed off.

If you die of lesser demons it's your gameplay that's at fault and not the game difficulty.

____


Dante is about quickly switching styles. If something is heading for you, switch to trickster to move away from it, switch to a shotgun to knock it back before it attacks you, switch to Royalguard to block it's attack, switch to anything that could prevent the damage to you.
The same goes for when the enemy just runs around you, switch to trickster, chase after it while trying to get it down with an easy to knock down attack (like the shotgun).
When something is blocking you, Pin-up, Gilgamesh, Darkslayer, Pandora, so many possibilities.

Dante is an alot more flexible character but requires much more coordination to play than Nero who got all his uses in a few moves and abilities.

If you are having trouble let this sum up some easy uses with Dante:

Mephisto's and Fausts:
Shotgun, Trickster and Gilgamesh. Teleport up towards them, shoot them with the shotgun, jump on them, shoot again, repeat until cloak is gone and you've shot them to hell. You teleport to them, use kick13 and follow by real impact.

Frosts:
Gilgamesh, use the uppercut move. Should get them knocked immediatly. Then, hell, go for whatever you want. You can also go trickster around them, use the shotgun to knock them down. Use Prop and Shredder to instantly make them fall... too many options to list them all.

Assaults:
I personally like to use:
Lucifer
Gilgamesh
Pandora
Dark Slayer
Rebellion
Ebony & Ivory
Shotgun
*lists everything*

Blitz:
Use Gilgamesh and Royal Guard. Do a normal 1 hit on the Blitz but immediatly block afterwards. If done correctly you hit the Blitz and did a royal block. Spam it to decloak it. The rest I still have a problem with.

Ohh and TC. If an enemy can dodge out of your cancelable Aerial Rave or Dance Macabre doesn't mean much. It's cancelable... You can just dodge out of both of those moves whenever you want to.

 

[hinge]

To be honest I'm not a fan of constant style switching. For a non-pro like me, the extra button presses are hard to keep track of, and I feel it also just mashes all the styles into one, to where it is no longer a distinguishable style. Hearing Dante constantly yelling "GUNSLIN-SWORDMAS-TRICK-SWORD-DARKSLAY-ROYALGUARD!!" just sounds weird, as well as the color flashes.

So I guess it's just a matter of me not willing to take the next step and style switch every half second, because it seems the only way to really own the ememies is to take full advantage of that. Fine. I'll just stick to playing 3.

Ohh and TC. If an enemy can dodge out of your cancelable Aerial Rave or Dance Macabre doesn't mean much. It's cancelable... You can just dodge out of both of those moves whenever you want to.

I could do that, but that shouldn't even be necessary. Seriously, does no one think it it strange, from a non-gameplay perspective, that a lot of enemies in 4 can escape DANTE'S combos? This is Dante we're talking about, once he's got you, there's no escape! It could make sense for Nero, since he's not at the same skill level in demon slaying.

 

[V]

I think... that on first playthrough DMC3 was harder. Your life is low, and you don't have many weapons or moves to begin with - it's an unforgiving game first time round. I remember getting past Agni/Rudra or Arkham or Vergil 3 was more difficult 1st time than every boss in DMC4 except Sanctus was 1st time.

Once you have played through 3 and colected everything, it's an easier play than 4 IMO.

 

[Darkstar Darin]

It's a difficulty. You can't handle it then it proves to be too difficult for you. You still have lesser difficulties at your choosing. Me, I think that DMD is too little for me. Sometimes enemies just die too damn fast and most of them... easy. Some can really get to me (Blitz when I play as Dante for example) but then can still very easily be disposed off.

If you die of lesser demons it's your gameplay that's at fault and not the game difficulty.

____


Dante is about quickly switching styles. If something is heading for you, switch to trickster to move away from it, switch to a shotgun to knock it back before it attacks you, switch to Royalguard to block it's attack, switch to anything that could prevent the damage to you.
The same goes for when the enemy just runs around you, switch to trickster, chase after it while trying to get it down with an easy to knock down attack (like the shotgun).
When something is blocking you, Pin-up, Gilgamesh, Darkslayer, Pandora, so many possibilities.

Dante is an alot more flexible character but requires much more coordination to play than Nero who got all his uses in a few moves and abilities.

If you are having trouble let this sum up some easy uses with Dante:

Mephisto's and Fausts:
Shotgun, Trickster and Gilgamesh. Teleport up towards them, shoot them with the shotgun, jump on them, shoot again, repeat until cloak is gone and you've shot them to hell. You teleport to them, use kick13 and follow by real impact.

Frosts:
Gilgamesh, use the uppercut move. Should get them knocked immediatly. Then, hell, go for whatever you want. You can also go trickster around them, use the shotgun to knock them down. Use Prop and Shredder to instantly make them fall... too many options to list them all.

Assaults:
I personally like to use:
Lucifer
Gilgamesh
Pandora
Dark Slayer
Rebellion
Ebony & Ivory
Shotgun
*lists everything*

Blitz:
Use Gilgamesh and Royal Guard. Do a normal 1 hit on the Blitz but immediatly block afterwards. If done correctly you hit the Blitz and did a royal block. Spam it to decloak it. The rest I still have a problem with.

Ohh and TC. If an enemy can dodge out of your cancelable Aerial Rave or Dance Macabre doesn't mean much. It's cancelable... You can just dodge out of both of those moves whenever you want to.

dats fantastic, but my problem is that im usin Nero, for w/e reason nothing staggers anymore, n dats b4 the enemies' "DT"

 

[aka958]

dats fantastic, but my problem is that im usin Nero, for w/e reason nothing staggers anymore, n dats b4 the enemies' "DT"

Exceed staggers. <.<

Then you got your charge shot which knocks back, and the devil bringer which interrupts.

It's easy to exceed. Kind of basics with Nero.

 

[Darkstar Darin]

Exceed staggers. <.<

Then you got your charge shot which knocks back, and the devil bringer which interrupts.

It's easy to exceed. Kind of basics with Nero.

>_< *facepalms* arigato, too bad i gotta wait a while b4 i can play it...

 

[Dante's Stalker]

To be honest I'm not a fan of constant style switching. For a non-pro like me, the extra button presses are hard to keep track of, and I feel it also just mashes all the styles into one, to where it is no longer a distinguishable style. Hearing Dante constantly yelling "GUNSLIN-SWORDMAS-TRICK-SWORD-DARKSLAY-ROYALGUARD!!" just sounds weird, as well as the color flashes.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I absolutely HATE switching styles on the fly, because he takes a second to switch over. And it usually only takes that second for an enemy to take a hit at me. But they do come in pretty handy once you get the hang of it. It's not that easy for some as for others. I'm not a pro-gamer, I'm much more interested in what goes on behind the scenes than in SSS-ing an entire game. But, if you have time, playing DMC4 for 7-9 hours straight will soon integrate which buttons to mash when into you, and you'll be playing like a pro in a day or less.

I wouldn't be able to tell which game was harder though. Sanctus is a royal pain in the butt to beat, especially on SoS mode (I still haven't figured out what the trick is to get him), but then I died 13 times fighting Vergil for the first time in DMC3. For someone who is a casual gamer, it's difficult to distinguish which game is hard and which one is easy, because for me personally it's a matter of getting used to the gameplay mechanics (what works, what doesn't). I did find DMC4 to be more efficient, considering the style changes occurred with the click of a button. In DMC3, you have to go into a menu and select another style before you can get back to the booty kicking, and then you can only do so when you're at one of the statue thingies too. Unless there's a shortcut nobody told me about.

But here's a question: would you rather have the lesser demons be a case of 'swipe-swipe' or 'pew-pew' *dead*, or would you prefer a challenge? Because I found DMC4's demons to be challenging (until you become so familiar with their attacks that you can kill one with your eyes closed).

 

[Vergil'sBitch]

Personally, the faster they die, the better. That's why i love Heaven or Hell mode on DMC3.

 

[aka958]

To be honest I'm not a fan of constant style switching. For a non-pro like me, the extra button presses are hard to keep track of, and I feel it also just mashes all the styles into one, to where it is no longer a distinguishable style. Hearing Dante constantly yelling "GUNSLIN-SWORDMAS-TRICK-SWORD-DARKSLAY-ROYALGUARD!!" just sounds weird, as well as the color flashes.

So I guess it's just a matter of me not willing to take the next step and style switch every half second, because it seems the only way to really own the ememies is to take full advantage of that. Fine. I'll just stick to playing 3.



I could do that, but that shouldn't even be necessary. Seriously, does no one think it it strange, from a non-gameplay perspective, that a lot of enemies in 4 can escape DANTE'S combos? This is Dante we're talking about, once he's got you, there's no escape! It could make sense for Nero, since he's not at the same skill level in demon slaying.

You switch styles every second?
...
God... just fool around with everything Dante has. I did and that way I learned.

Like how I fast switch to trickster when I see an attack is headed which I can't dodge any other way. Or how I switch to trickster, get close to the enemy, switch to swordmaster. I switch weapons and guns too.
But hell, if I just want to go all out badass and havoc I style switch 90 times in one bloody palace level. Otherwise I would style switch to a maximum 10 times.

You don't need to be a pro to be quick with style switching. You develop your own playstyle as you go along. I mean, of course this game was really challenging and unfair for me the first few times I played. But that's what it is, a challenge.

Enemies can't move out of Nero's attack? You're joking, right? The frosts jumps out of Nero's aerial attacks with Red Queen if it isn't exceeded. And that's just one example.

No, it flees from a single combo. Dante chases after it still, remember? Dante isn't the epic devil hunter he is because every single hit he does is devestating. It's because he is skillfull, one opponent may flee one slash but they can never flee from him. Not if he's played right.
Are you really asking why you would need to do that? Seriously? Seriously!? I could just ask why should the enemies even do damage to Dante, it's Dante! How come I get a game over, I'm Dante! It's a game mechanic, the game isn't giving you everything on a silver platter. Especially when you can just instantly get to the fleeing enemy with Trickster.

Here, I don't see as many style switches as you talk about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcA6FB2ZTwk&feature=related
A pretty decent player.

The only time I've seen massive style switching is when jump cancel is made.

 

[hinge]

4's demons are challenging in a "Why am I dodging more than attacking" kind of way. (Or more accurately, "Die dammit, why won't you die?!" -- something that should only be said when playing DMD mode) I spent a couple hours getting to know a Frost one-on-one, and even with debug mode No Death, it was annoying as hell, even after I learned how to dodge most of his attacks. They are just THAT annoying.

aka958:

No, I'm not asking that I get everything on a silver platter. I'm asking if anyone else also felt that the enemies were amazingly annoying (and almost unfair, like you said when you first played it) compared to the ones from 3.

You're right, it's not necessary to switch styles that often, I do so about as often as you mentioned. But it shouldn't be necessary to use Trickster over normal rolling.

I'm sorry if I come across whining, perhaps you simply view the game differently.