Gotta give credit where credit is due

[DragonMaster2010]

Now I know that some aren't happy with DmC and saying that it doesn't deserve the name or title Devil May Cry (which sounds a bit sad), but you do have to admit for a gaming company who's gameplay was repetitive and not deep at all, Ninja Theory really did a good job with DmC in terms of gameplay.

Yes is easier to access, but then again so were the other DMC games. But just because DmC is easier to access doesn't mean the game is bad. Last time I checked, I didn't know an easy to access game was a bad thing.:/

I do think NT has really come a great way with their gameplay and environmental style as well. The graphics with the PC version are very stunning and the motion capture is nicely tuned. I may sound like some DmC fanboy, but isn't it natural to praise a game you like? People did it for the past DMC games, so I should naturally be able to do the same. And look at Vergil's Downfall. The gameplay there isn't a rehash of Dante's and really leaves the impression that this was a beta test for Dante's move set if they ever do a DmC2. Plus if they do decided to do a DmC2, I'm sure they'll learn more on difficulty and no color coded enemies.^_^

I also gotta give Tameen props as well. This was his first time in the director's seat, making the story and being in charge of it all, and for his first time, I think he's really done a great job. Most would pressure up with all that hate and just decide to quit or do what the fans say. But Tameen stuck it out and created something he likes and have fun with it. Sure he could have handled the IP a bit better, and him expressing his OPINION about Dante was a bit out of the park, but aside from that, Tameen really has been working hard. He's had three years to do this and has been working quite a lot, and I applaud him for his efforts.

The stances aren't that bad of an idea either. They bring a new take on the switching of weapons so I don't have to cycle around for the weapon I want, or be reduced to only have two weapons at a time and one style. Now I can choose any weapon I want at any given time and all my moves are set in place. Sure it may seem easier then the past games, but doesn't mean its a bad way of doing things.

So anyway, I gotta give Ninja Theory credit where credit is due. They were pretty short coming where they were with Heavenly Sword, and Enslaved. But now that they've had Capcom's guidance and a DmC game made by them (which is a really big honor to work on a Capcom game) I can see NT improving in the future for the PS4 and even a possible Xbox 720.

So kudos to you NT.

 

[Terrutas]

If this thread was about Vurgle's Downfall,I would agree.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

If this thread was about Vurgle's Downfall,I would agree.

It's half about that. and you spelled that wrong. Everyone knows it's Virgin's downfall.

 

[Ether0]

I agree, ignoring all the controversy, this is a pretty well designed game with really fun gameplay. Not as deep as DMC 3 or 4 but I'm okay with that as it took Capcom a loooooong time to get to that level of expertise and this is really NT first attempt at making deep combat mechanics. Heavenly Sword was okay but was much more about the story and showing off the PS3's graphical capabilities.

Dante and Vergil, while in a lot of ways very different from their original counterparts still keep the essence of the characters in tact and that's what really matters to me anyway. It's a DMC game at it's core, it just is a different take on it is all. That really just means that the DMC universe is versatile enough to support more than one interpretation of itself and that's a good thing that a lot of gaming series cannot say they have going for them

 

[Alittleacorn]

I have to agree, NT really did a great job. They've improved a lot from their last game and I think from Capcom they've learned a lot too. They all deserve medals for bravery for seeing their vision through and working so darn hard.

Kudo's kupo NT!

 

[EA9Sol]

I agree as well. They did a fine job. The game is fun and I love ever minute of it.

 

[IncarnatedDemon]

Gotta give credit where credit is due? Why are you only crediting Ninja theory for gameplay of DmC when Capcom had their hands in it too?

Speaking both for himself and for series producer Motohide Eshiro, Capcom Japan’s David Chrissop said that DmC is “not a collaboration in name only”.
“We really are working together, injecting as much Capcom know-how as we can,” he told Capcom Unity .

According to Jones, veteran Capcom designers spent "a week out of every month" tutoring Ninja Theory during DmC's development. The results, by our lights at least, are palpable - the new game is a complex, testing beast, though perhaps not quite as complex or testing as the fearsomely inaccessible Devil May Cry 3.

 

[Zilla]

Yes, I believe I read somewhere that 100 people worked on DmC, 10 being from Capcom, 90 from NT. Capcom obviously had to let NT in on a few Combat refining techniques, which has made Me quite interested in their future projects, as NT will obviously put that newfound knowledge to good use.

Honestly though, aside from their renowned narrative abilities, I think Capcom used NT primarily as a Flame shield. Capcom were obviously aware that they were reaching the bottom of the barrel when they gave us Nero, an out-of-nowhere character with a half-assed backstory, one which is still disputed. I honestly think DMC 4 was actually when Capcom wanted a new Dante, which was originally Nero, but got cold feet at the last second and simply threw a DMC 3-esque clownish, inconsistent Dante in to run back through Nero's portion of the game, to keep the masses happy.

Bringing in NT essentially enabled Capcom to realise their dream of a 'New Dante' but with minimalised backlash from their fans. (They already get enough backlash from their on-disc DLC bullshit)

 

[OppressedWriter]

yeah Ninja Theory I love their visuals and emphasis on art, but capcom deserves most praise for game play still being fun. Yes, its more accessible, but a million times more deep and intricate than 99% of the competition.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

Gotta give credit where credit is due? Why are you only crediting Ninja theory for gameplay of DmC when Capcom had their hands in it too?

Yeah, but NT pretty much were tutored by Capcom, not Capcom did everything with gameplay. NT were the ones who were making gameplay while Capcom looked over their shoulders every now and then to see their progress and give pointers.

 

[OppressedWriter]

I think people read too much into the idea that Ninja Theory are a bunch of artsy fartsy filmmakers. They just want to make bad ass looking games with visuals that can rival film. Secondly, I think they're mainly renowned for their motion capture work and thus I guess it probably seemed like a good idea for capcom to get them for a game where looking bad ass is a significant mechanic.

Couple things I do like though:

Rebellion = Ie Dante is a rebel, impatient, look at the way he attacks with rebellion almost like he's losing control especially the hacker attack where he staggers on the last hit. I like that kind of stuff little artsy symbolism in all the weapons and what not.

Arbitrer: Every hit is like a gavel: it delivers the final blow, judgement.

Aquilas: Legion, rounds up the legions in a neat line. Look up th emeaning behind aquilas.

Osiriis; Sun God, glows from the energy it absorbs off enemies.

Eryx:. He was either the son ofPoseidon[1]orAphroditeand KingButesof theElymianpeople of Sicily.[2]Eryx was an excellentboxerbut died whenHeraclesbeat him in a match.[3]
A different Eryx, one of the supporters of Phineus, was turned to stone by Perseus with the head of the Gorgon Medusa.[

Stuff like that is cool and shows they're a little artsy fartsy and I dig that. And Oh man, everyone who worked on Bob Barbas deserves immense praise, the quality of the visuals is incredible, and even the writing is genuinely funny from Bob Barbas calling Dante a little emo punk and saying how about I kill you and Pee (he actually uses a less family friendly term) on your corpse for cool points to the fake interviews from the airheads saying Dante had pedophile eyes and like "one girl begged for her life, and like he killed her anyway.".

 

[IncarnatedDemon]

Yeah, but NT pretty much were tutored by Capcom, not Capcom did everything with gameplay. NT were the ones who were making gameplay while Capcom looked over their shoulders every now and then to see their progress and give pointers.

It's speculation on your part what NT did and what Capcom did when it comes to the gameplay of DmC. But i know that Capcom helped out with the gameplay of DmC. What i don't know is how much, but if you don't believe me then believe this quote:

Speaking both for himself and for series producer Motohide Eshiro, Capcom Japan’s David Chrissop said that DmC is “not a collaboration in name only”.
“We really are working together, injecting as much Capcom know-how as we can,” he told Capcom Unity .

I think it's unfair to Capcom developlers, and to Capcom as a company, that your looking away from the contribution they made regarding the gameplay of DmC. Whether they were tutoring or not, their contribution has helped. It's a ignorant attitude to say "They just guided/tutored, so they didn't create the gameplay". I know where i study, my teachers help me alot in progressing. So i owe my thanks to my teachers for the success with my studies.

Personally i don't see DmC's gameplay as a huge achievement for Ninja theory. The gameplay was defined by Capcom, and Ninja theory received help in producing it on the Unreal Engine. And they managed that. But it's not a individual achievement, but a team achievement. Therefor it has less meaning to me as a achievement.

Any team with same or roughly same skills as Ninja theory in Hack and Slash can make roughly the same gameplay that Ninja theory did with help from Capcom.

Vigil games managed to pull it off with Darksiders 2 without help from Capcom's experience. And they said they were inspired by the chaining combo of DMC games:

 

[DragonMaster2010]

It's speculation on your part what NT did and what Capcom did when it comes to the gameplay of DmC. But i know that Capcom helped out with the gameplay of DmC. What i don't know is how much, but if you don't believe me then believe this quote:


I think it's unfair to Capcom developlers, and to Capcom as a company, that your looking away from the contribution they made regarding the gameplay of DmC. Whether they were tutoring or not, their contribution has helped. It's a ignorant attitude to say "They just guided/tutored, so they didn't create the gameplay". I know where i study, my teachers help me alot in progressing. So i owe my thanks to my teachers for the success with my studies.

Personally i don't see DmC's gameplay as a huge achievement for Ninja theory. The gameplay was defined by Capcom, and Ninja theory received help in producing it on the Unreal Engine. And they managed that. But it's not a individual achievement, but a team achievement. Therefor it has less meaning to me as a achievement.

Any team with same or roughly same skills as Ninja theory in Hack and Slash can make roughly the same gameplay that Ninja theory did with help from Capcom.

Vigil games managed to pull it off with Darksiders 2 without help from Capcom's experience. And they said they were inspired by the chaining combo of DMC games:

And NT is free to give credit to Capcom, but I was just giving credit to NT in the terms that people didn't think they could make a good hack n slash game even with capcom's help, but they did, and DmC is a good game that many thought wouldn't sell a single copy.

 

[EvilX-81]

Personally i don't see DmC's gameplay as a huge achievement for Ninja theory. The gameplay was defined by Capcom, and Ninja theory received help in producing it on the Unreal Engine. And they managed that. But it's not a individual achievement, but a team achievement. Therefor it has less meaning to me as a achievement.

Any team with same or roughly same skills as Ninja theory in Hack and Slash can make roughly the same gameplay that Ninja theory did with help from Capcom.

Egh... combo and Blades of Time don't go in the same sentence together. Infact "combat" and Blades of Time don't go together. Maybe if you used Darksiders 1 or God of War.

 

[TerrorA]

'che "Game" and Blades of time barely go together.

 

[OppressedWriter]

Darksiders 2 combat system is fun buts it a joke compared to DmC

 

[EvilX-81]

'che "Game" and Blades of time barely go together.

LOL. It's too bad too. It's like a sack of good ideas thrown together without any structure. Lara Croft with magic, dealing with traps and such. But the combat system is a goddamn joke, the epitome of button mashing, and the the time rewind thing made things worst instead of better.

 

[Ether0]

Yes, I believe I read somewhere that 100 people worked on DmC, 10 being from Capcom, 90 from NT. Capcom obviously had to let NT in on a few Combat refining techniques, which has made Me quite interested in their future projects, as NT will obviously put that newfound knowledge to good use.

Honestly though, aside from their renowned narrative abilities, I think Capcom used NT primarily as a Flame shield. Capcom were obviously aware that they were reaching the bottom of the barrel when they gave us Nero, an out-of-nowhere character with a half-assed backstory, one which is still disputed. I honestly think DMC 4 was actually when Capcom wanted a new Dante, which was originally Nero, but got cold feet at the last second and simply threw a DMC 3-esque clownish, inconsistent Dante in to run back through Nero's portion of the game, to keep the masses happy.

Bringing in NT essentially enabled Capcom to realise their dream of a 'New Dante' but with minimalised backlash from their fans. (They already get enough backlash from their on-disc DLC bullshit)

Could not agree more! It seems like that was the point of DMC4 and if they had the guts to do it then and there, that game could have been really good. I think NT gets too much hate for the direction change of the series. It's pretty common knowledge at this point that NT wanted to have Dante at least look very similar to the original but with more of a slight punk flair and Capcom did not want that, they wanted something new and a complete tonal shift. NT gave them exactly what they wanted and got tons of death threats for it while Capsom who orchestrated it got minimal blow-back.

I love the new direction and think they both should be applauded for being brave enough to make a change in an industry notorious for putting out the same thing over and over again, just wish some fans did not ignore Capcom's role in the this when they scream about the evil awfulness of NT

 

[aoshi]

Meh.

You're entitled to you opinion, but I just can't see the appeal of it at all.

 

[Ether0]

It's speculation on your part what NT did and what Capcom did when it comes to the gameplay of DmC. But i know that Capcom helped out with the gameplay of DmC. What i don't know is how much, but if you don't believe me then believe this quote:


I think it's unfair to Capcom developlers, and to Capcom as a company, that your looking away from the contribution they made regarding the gameplay of DmC. Whether they were tutoring or not, their contribution has helped. It's a ignorant attitude to say "They just guided/tutored, so they didn't create the gameplay". I know where i study, my teachers help me alot in progressing. So i owe my thanks to my teachers for the success with my studies.

Personally i don't see DmC's gameplay as a huge achievement for Ninja theory. The gameplay was defined by Capcom, and Ninja theory received help in producing it on the Unreal Engine. And they managed that. But it's not a individual achievement, but a team achievement. Therefor it has less meaning to me as a achievement.

Any team with same or roughly same skills as Ninja theory in Hack and Slash can make roughly the same gameplay that Ninja theory did with help from Capcom.

Vigil games managed to pull it off with Darksiders 2 without help from Capcom's experience. And they said they were inspired by the chaining combo of DMC games:

I can give you Darksiders, the combat in that is really fun and awesome but still does not have the depth of this DmC game or any DMC game, it's fun but it's obvious that was not the main focus in that game. As for Blades of Time.....well I have trouble even calling that mess a game lol. I'm being overly harsh but the combat in that was boring and the actual game was just not good. Anyway It's obvious NT had plenty of help from Capcom, it was not co-develolped however and they have even said as much stating that Capcom taught them a lot but the nuts and bolts of that combat engine was their design and although not as deep as the previous games was still a lot better than most other hack and slash games and significantly more accessible. The other thing is that we forget that NT pretty much existed in a hate filled, death threat laden vacuum of people hoping they fail miserably. It would suck if for years people who never even touched your game just wanted you dead or your family dead and your hard work for 3 years to be for nothing. Would make a lot of people not even want to do it but they pushed through and made a really good product.Ignoring the game entirely and just looking at that factor, they deserve a lot of credit.