Decided to Compare DmC Guns across the games.

[EvilX-81]

Anyone seen hardcoreviolenceshow's DMC/DMC 3 Gun Damage Comparison? It showed that the guns are pretty damn effective in DMC3, something I'd never realized, and with all the controversy surrounding Dante's guns, I decided for the hell of it to try checking out the guns in the other recent games to see how they also stack up.

The flaw of HCV's video though was that he compared damage between a DMC3 Hell Pride and DmC Stygian. Hell Prides only take three normal slashes from Rebellion on Normal, meaning they probably have smaller health bars. So I did some sword attack damage comparisons too to get an idea of the energy bar. All enemies were attacked with one Rebellion normal slash repeated until death.


# of Sword slashes
-------------
Game: DMC3SE
Mode: Normal
Enemy tested on: Hell Lust
Normal Slash #: 8

Game: DMC4
Mode: Devil Hunter
Enemy tested on: Scarecrow(arm)
Normal Slash #: 6
Enemy tested on: Scarecrow(leg)
Normal Slash #: 9

Game: DmC(Demo)
Mode: Devil Hunter
Enemy tested on: Stygian
Normal Slash #: 8

I used a Hell Lust instead Pride, because the damage they take from swords seem more even in line with the other test enemies. From there I counted how long it took to kill enemies with the guns. DMC4 was the toughest because range determines the damage done so I did a comparison from near and far range.

DMC3 and 4 were of course done without use of Gunslinger options in general, and DMC3's Ebony and Ivory were Level 1. Times are rough estimates, so give or take a second.


Pistol kill times
---------
Game: DMC3SE
Mode: Normal
Enemy tested on: Hell Lust
Gunshots time: 11 seconds

Game: DMC4
Mode: Devil Hunter
Enemy tested on: Scarecrow(arm)
Gunshots time: (close range) 8 seconds
Gunshots time: (far range) 42 seconds
----
Enemy tested on: Scarecrow(leg)
Gunshots time: (close range) 13 seconds
Gunshots time: (far range) 71 seconds


Game: DmC(Demo)
Mode: Devil Hunter
Enemy tested on: Stygian
Gunshots time: 27 seconds

Update:
DMC3SE E&I Max:
-------------
Enemy tested on: Hell Lust
Gunshots time: 7 seconds


DmC E&I:
------------
Enemy tested on: Lesser Stygian
Normal Slash #: 9 (not upgraded)
Gunshots time: 16 seconds

DmC E&I Max:
------------
Enemy tested on: Lesser Stygian
Normal Slash #: 9 (not upgraded)
Gunshots time: 12 seconds

So TL;DR, the guns definitely suck as is in DmC, but I have some hope. DMC3's guns are the overall best, but DMC4's seems to almost equal damage... if you're standing considerably close, which kinda defeats the point. Go make yourself a sandwich if you're trying to kill something from long range with pistols only, but I guess that was what the super rapid honeycomb fire was for.

But from what I hear they can be upgraded to fire faster for more rapid damage, which wasn't an option in DMC4, and I didn't see much of a change in damage on a level 3 Ebony and Ivory in DMC3 (though I haven't tested them yet to be fair.) If on maximum upgrade, they manage to shoot at least twice as as many shots, they could wind up being close to par with DMC3 and DMC4's close range power. Big if though. In the end even if the upgrades suck, I don't care too much; Ricoshots are where it's at. But it was fun looking into this stuff.

Yes, this would probably be better in the form of a video... but eh.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Interesting work man, and much more informative than HCV's video. Prides have very little health compared to other enemies, so it's unfair to try and compare the two.

I didn't know that range altered the damage in DMC4, either, interesting~

Maybe you should share your findings with HCV?

 

[TyIquan_DmC]

That's definitely interesting. So they can be better than DMC4's guns from a distance, eh...? I too never noticed that.

 

[Frantix]

You should wait till you get the upgraded firearms before doing something like this. It just seems skewed in favor of the previous games from the outset.

 

[EvilX-81]

That's definitely interesting. So they can be better than DMC4's guns from a distance, eh...? I too never noticed that.

Apparently nerf guns hit better than DMC4's E&I from a distance. But they're pretty good up close, I was kinda shocked.

Check out "DMC4 pistol study" for a damn awesome rundown on the effectiveness on DMC4's weaponry. That's where I learned about the distance factor.

You should wait till you get the upgraded firearms before doing something like this. It just seems skewed in favor of the previous games from the outset.

Well the controversy is that DMC3's pistols at their weakest are better than DmC's pistols from the demo, so I wanted to explore that. Dunno if DmC's pistol upgrades will even things out, we'll see. But even if they're regular fire sucks even after, there's still richoshot+multiple enemies for great justice.

Interesting work man, and much more informative than HCV's video. Prides have very little health compared to other enemies, so it's unfair to try and compare the two.

I didn't know that range altered the damage in DMC4, either, interesting~

Maybe you should share your findings with HCV?

Was considering it, but I don't really see much a point as his point still stands IMO, and I don't feel like stepping into the pro-anti war zone. I dunno how *truly* accurate any of this is though; Pathos take about the same number of hits as a Hell Pride on normal(3), and go down seemingly just as quick as a Pride to gunfire. Maybe some enemies have buffs or nerfs against gunfire? I dunno.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Was considering it, but I don't really see much a point as his point still stands IMO, and I don't feel like stepping into the pro-anti war zone.

*shrug* Mostly just about keeping people informed correctly. As you've pointed out, though, GCV's video is misleading, because Prides and Stygians don't have the same amount of health. So even if both versions of E&I are level 1 with no Style modifiers, the testing is still lopsided :/

I think they could stand to be a little stronger, too, though. Not too strong. I liked the balance of gun and sword damage in DMC1 the most, actually >.<

I dunno how *truly* accurate any of this is though; Pathos take about the same number of hits as a Hell Pride on normal(3), and go down seemingly just as quick as a Pride to gunfire. Maybe some enemies have buffs or nerfs against gunfire? I dunno.

That's possible that they do, like the aerial enemies being more resistant to gunfire because it's the easiest way to attack them, because the Pathos pretty much just crumble when you hit them with Rebellion.

I wonder now if DmC also has a range-based damage modifier now, too >.<

 

[MegaMad9]

From what I've heard, DmC is all about upgrading your weapons and guns, so you could probably boost the damage anyway

 

[EvilX-81]

Guess this will wrap this up; so I went and tested out E&I's power at maximum on the DmC game, and also record DMC3 E&I's maximum just to be complete; while the results are basically what I expected for both, but there are significant discrepancies to address; the Stygians I tested on this time took 9 hits instead of 8 with the first hit of Hacker on level 1. Also, the gun damage for DmC's E&I has changed even for their level 1 power compared to the demo.


DMC3SE E&I Max:
-------------
Enemy tested on: Hell Lust
Gunshots time: 7 seconds



DmC E&I:
------------
Enemy tested on: Lesser Stygian
Normal Slash #: 9 (not upgraded)
Gunshots time: 16 seconds


DmC E&I Max:
------------
Enemy tested on: Lesser Stygian
Normal Slash #: 9 (not upgraded)
Gunshots time: 12 seconds

Damn, DMC3's guns are just awesome. But I guess they had to be considering the whole "pick a style and stick with it" thing that was going on. Can see why they nerfed DMC4's guns, though they went CRAZY overboard with the distance mechanic.

Meanwhile DmC's guns are apparently not the demo's guns. I expected the upgrades to chop the time down significantly, but they have apparently been outright buffed up, even on level 1. Maybe they caught wind of the criticisms? Gun damage seems to be worthwhile now in any case.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Nice to know. Thanks man.

What you said makes sense, too. DMC3 had to you relying on four weapons max, so damage had to be comparable. Do you think DmC's versions is a better balance to the "having it all" weapon system compared to DMC4's distance mechanic?

 

[DragonMaster2010]

I was always under the impression that E & I were for keeping enemies in the air or subduing them for a few seconds.

 

[EvilX-81]

Nice to know. Thanks man.

What you said makes sense, too. DMC3 had to you relying on four weapons max, so damage had to be comparable. Do you think DmC's versions is a better balance to the "having it all" weapon system compared to DMC4's distance mechanic?

Well, I think I can see what they were going for in DMC4, that they wanted you to use honeycomb fire if you wanted to deal rapid damage with the pistols (come to think of it, I might try testing out a long and short range honeycomb fire sometime soon) to make up for for the slack in range damage. Still, the distance mechanic should've came with somesort of cap; taking over a minute to kill a regular enemy from across the room is pretty ridic.

I dunno what to think about balance vs available weapon options, but think the guns in DmC are fine now atleast, though I would've preferred a little stronger. Sure they're within range of DMC3 and 4's gunpower, but several regular enemies have rather high hp beyond the lesser stygians, and I think they only get stronger on the higher levels making gun damage a potentially questionable again. But there's the fact that the guns also have alternate uses here in comparison to the previous games (IIRC), namely in speeding up enemy cooldown when they get fired up or bringing down harpies, the ricoshots, etc. So even then one can't say the guns are "useless".

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Yeah, I like the uses E&I have, but them being a little more powerful would have been nice, especially to scale with the endgame enemies. Although it all sorta plays into emphasis on using more of the weapons. Everything has a use, it seems.