Dante's & Vergil's Styles
- Thread starter Ronin
- Start date
Sieghart
"Plough the lilies"
As far as i can tell, there is no style system in DmC. It was replaced by the stance system similar to heavenly sword. All the moves in the four styles are mashed in together in DmC. The quicksilver is now part of dante's DT form and the darkslayer is still present into vergil as far as i can but with the addition of doppelganger.
There are no other confirmed playable characters besides Dante and Vergil(DLC)
There are no other confirmed playable characters besides Dante and Vergil(DLC)
TWOxACROSS
Hot-blooded God of Guns
You should probably wait until the full game to see what it has in it. We don't know everything either.
KenKen
Gorram Browncoat
Nothing against DMC 3 and 4. And certainly nothing against you, Ronin; but here's a very unpopular opinion:
I don't miss the style system.
The style system could get annoying sometimes. A lot of times.
And most times when someone would bring up the fact that the style system put so many moves at Dante's disposal, I just point at Bayonetta (where almost the same moves were matched to very intuitive button commands) or DmC's new system.
Why moves like Aerial Rave, Guard, Charge Shot, Drive, and Wall-run couldn't just be Dante's abilities is beyond me. What was more annoying is that so many of the moves were all just mapped to one button. Especially in DMC4 where the styles were switched with the D-pad, there was something inherently complicated and non-intuitive about having to remember which style was matched with which direction, and then pull off a bunch of moves with the circle or B button.
For example, following Prop up with High Time, Aerial rave, Rainstorm, and Sky Star involved a lot of messy d-pad presses that can be replicated very easily in DmC with the stance system.
I'm not saying that things like Dance Macabre, Twosome Time, and Sky Star weren't cool or useful, but blocking them off based on which single style you picked at the divinity statue (or which style you pick with the d-pad) wasn't really all that innovative. Most times, it's very restrictive.
I'm also not saying that the stance system is the best thing to happen to gaming, either. But the fact that NT and Capcom created a system where Dante's moves are separated into easy-to-remember categories that are pretty much always assigned to the same button presses--all Demon stance moves are slow, hard, and aggressive; all angel stance moves are faster and evasive; all clear-out moves with the guns are done with this specific button combination no matter what gun Dante's holding--is a giant improvement.
Given that almost all of the same moves from the previous game are still in DmC, the only thing that was really removed were the styles' names.
I don't miss the style system.
The style system could get annoying sometimes. A lot of times.
And most times when someone would bring up the fact that the style system put so many moves at Dante's disposal, I just point at Bayonetta (where almost the same moves were matched to very intuitive button commands) or DmC's new system.
Why moves like Aerial Rave, Guard, Charge Shot, Drive, and Wall-run couldn't just be Dante's abilities is beyond me. What was more annoying is that so many of the moves were all just mapped to one button. Especially in DMC4 where the styles were switched with the D-pad, there was something inherently complicated and non-intuitive about having to remember which style was matched with which direction, and then pull off a bunch of moves with the circle or B button.
For example, following Prop up with High Time, Aerial rave, Rainstorm, and Sky Star involved a lot of messy d-pad presses that can be replicated very easily in DmC with the stance system.
I'm not saying that things like Dance Macabre, Twosome Time, and Sky Star weren't cool or useful, but blocking them off based on which single style you picked at the divinity statue (or which style you pick with the d-pad) wasn't really all that innovative. Most times, it's very restrictive.
I'm also not saying that the stance system is the best thing to happen to gaming, either. But the fact that NT and Capcom created a system where Dante's moves are separated into easy-to-remember categories that are pretty much always assigned to the same button presses--all Demon stance moves are slow, hard, and aggressive; all angel stance moves are faster and evasive; all clear-out moves with the guns are done with this specific button combination no matter what gun Dante's holding--is a giant improvement.
Given that almost all of the same moves from the previous game are still in DmC, the only thing that was really removed were the styles' names.
nightrunner_ks
You are not in control
OP, some good responses in this thread, but there's one more very important advantage of the new system, you can switch weapons during a pause combo! You start off with the Rebellion combo A (Hacker), and during the pause on the second hit, you can switch to a fast advancing "Cleaver" move with the Angel weapon.
ChaserTech
Well-known Member
Honestly, I feel as if this DmC control scheme sacrifices buttons for more moves.
With the style system in DMC3, things were indeed simplified. But it was improved in DMC4 when you were given almost all of Dante's old skills just by using the Dpad (as well as having Vergil's skills). Of course you had only 6 weapons to work with (which was a downgrade from DMC3) but you still had A LOT to work with in terms of having a decent amount of moves. (Around 80-79 for Dante if I recall correctly) So DmC is trying to fix this by giving you more weapons along with having Angel and Demon mode. Which is nice, but at the same time it limits you for what you can do on the ground and in the air. As well as being able to use pause combos and a few directional attacks (mainly forward).
Call me old fashioned, but DMC4's combat system was perfect for me. You could either choose one style that you prefer, and work with it. Or you could try to master all of your styles at once. You weren't really forced to use one particular style for a certain situation either.
TWOxACROSS
Hot-blooded God of Guns
KenKen has great points. Although it could be said that learning the D-Pad style switching is a hurdle of its own and a great mark of skill, it's just not necessary. I loved the Style system, for what it was worth, but playing DmC, I too don't miss it. They made the somewhat convoluted system, and then streamlined it. I love having all my combo moves mapped to the same button, and similarly the same special moves mapped to one. Taking combos from ground, to the air, and then back down if I want is much more fun, just because I don't have to use two different buttons depending on whether I'm on the ground or in the air. It's highly intuitive to make your ground combo button the same as your air combo button, and vertical techniques like launchers and droppers on another - while I was perfectly okay with having my thumb dance around the face buttons in DMC3 and 4, I just plain like this better, because it prevents my thumb from getting confused in all the action. Nero's playstyle was a hint of this, and it sucked when I still love Dante more, and had to revert to those somewhat awkward controls.
And people can complain until they're blue in the face about Heavenly Sword's "stance system" being used in DmC, but it also works. For people to complain that it's dumb to have to hold down a shoulder button during attacks to use a different weapon is insanely silly when these are the same people who want their Hard Lock back, which requires you to consistently hold down a shoulder button to engage. I found holding a weapon swap button better than tapping one, because the tactile response of knowing I'm holding in the button works a helluva lot better than hoping I tapped a button hard enough to switch weapons. And loving Dante in DMC4, cycling through three weapons wasn't really a treat for me. Requiring a Hard Lock to perform certain moves has pretty much been rendered moot since there is enough different inputs that can be done with the way the control scheme is now, although I hope they also make use of directional inputs and the Special attack key too. Bayonetta had inputs just like DmC Stinger's, and even made use of back-to-foward inputs without requiring a Hard Lock, so we know it can be done
DmC lets me play without forcing me to stop and choose what I want, and just gives me what I want, when I want it, at all times.
And people can complain until they're blue in the face about Heavenly Sword's "stance system" being used in DmC, but it also works. For people to complain that it's dumb to have to hold down a shoulder button during attacks to use a different weapon is insanely silly when these are the same people who want their Hard Lock back, which requires you to consistently hold down a shoulder button to engage. I found holding a weapon swap button better than tapping one, because the tactile response of knowing I'm holding in the button works a helluva lot better than hoping I tapped a button hard enough to switch weapons. And loving Dante in DMC4, cycling through three weapons wasn't really a treat for me. Requiring a Hard Lock to perform certain moves has pretty much been rendered moot since there is enough different inputs that can be done with the way the control scheme is now, although I hope they also make use of directional inputs and the Special attack key too. Bayonetta had inputs just like DmC Stinger's, and even made use of back-to-foward inputs without requiring a Hard Lock, so we know it can be done
DmC lets me play without forcing me to stop and choose what I want, and just gives me what I want, when I want it, at all times.
nightrunner_ks
You are not in control
^Exactly. Like NT has mentioned themselves, in DmC, EVERYTHING is at your fingertips. Every weapon, every gun, every move. There's no extra systems or mechanics to access every move. You just need to combine a few button presses together.
Some call it casualising, but its not. You still need to be precise with your button presses, and there's still a dizzying amount of ways you can chain attacks together, but now everythings more...streamlined.
Some call it casualising, but its not. You still need to be precise with your button presses, and there's still a dizzying amount of ways you can chain attacks together, but now everythings more...streamlined.
TWOxACROSS
Hot-blooded God of Guns
I think some people fear that streamlining is a bad thing. I'd say that a game's difficulty should come from mastering the gameplay, not mastering convoluted controls.
KenKen
Gorram Browncoat
My bad about the "being forced to pick one style in one situation" thing. Thanks for pointing that out, ChaserTech.
One thing I will say is that the system inspired very different play-styles in DMC3. One player will use Swordmaster to mercilessly launch and juggle enemies, and another player would use Trickster to run circles around them.
Even with that, it just wasn't the best fit for me. Just having skills at my disposal is fine, but kudos to any DMC-veteran who could pick up and take control DMC4's styles.
One thing I will say is that the system inspired very different play-styles in DMC3. One player will use Swordmaster to mercilessly launch and juggle enemies, and another player would use Trickster to run circles around them.
Even with that, it just wasn't the best fit for me. Just having skills at my disposal is fine, but kudos to any DMC-veteran who could pick up and take control DMC4's styles.
ChaserTech
Well-known Member
lol I'm no veteran, but I have grown quite fond of the DMC4 combat system.
Side note: Using my PS3 controller to type is weird. I have to use my roommate's laptop charger for the semester but unfortunately he left for the weekend, taking it with him. And mine is busted. lol
Soooooooo expect alot of grammatical errors!
nightrunner_ks
You are not in control
lol I'm no veteran, but I have grown quite fond of the DMC4 combat system.
Side note: Using my PS3 controller to type is weird. I have to use my roommate's laptop charger for the semester but unfortunately he left for the weekend, taking it with him. And mine is busted. lol
Soooooooo expect alot of grammatical errors!
I understand your trepidation regarding DmC's combat mechanics and its very understandable if you're a hardcore DMC4 fan. But once your fingers and brain get used to it, it just feels quite natural.
Not saying that DMC4's combat is bad. Its amazing. So is DMC3's. But DmC...to me its a refreshing change.
ChaserTech
Well-known Member
Oh I'm already used to the controls since they are easy to figure out. I just prefer the DMC4 gameplay since:
1) I'm already used to the controls.
2) I don't need to hold onto the trigger buttons so switching between styles feels smoother than switching between angel and demon mode.
3) The buffering system in DMC4 is balanced instead of inconsistent, like DmC.
4) The transition between each attacks, even JC'ed ones, are more fluid.
KenKen
Gorram Browncoat
There are buffering problems in DmC?
Which attacks? Those need to be fixed post-haste! The devs have less than a month...
ChaserTech
Well-known Member
Well for one, if you input inverted rainstorm then attack while he's doing it, he will continue the move like normal. But when he finishes the move, he'll perform the move you inputted despite the normal buffering system.
Then there are problems with charging E&I. You can't charge E&I without holding down another button. (I believe so anyway)
TWOxACROSS
Hot-blooded God of Guns
I'm curious - did you change your control scheme at all? I changed my controls to the Angel and Demon mode to be on L1 and R1, Evade on R2, and I made Gun Special L2.
I wonder if IRS just has the same properties as Hightime - that can't be canceled out early either.
ChaserTech
Well-known Member
I never change my controls. Even for DMC4, lol.
The only time I can recall that I ever changed my controls were for SSBB. But that was only because of an Advanced Tech that requires you to change controls.
TWOxACROSS
Hot-blooded God of Guns
Wow, really? Not even for DMC4? Apparently all the pros have custom schemes that actually makes all the crap they do possible. Did you ever think that if you did change up your control scheme your level would increase? OR are you a stickler like me, and don't like to alter the main scheme too much?
chocolatepanda
Well-known Member
It is nice to have everything usable but i think they should've taken a different approach to the weapons. I think they should've taken a Nero like approach to each weapon. Nero only had one melee weapon but they gave him the inputs for calibur and more than one pause combo. I think they should've taken a similar approach in DmC like giving the axe and fists 2 or 3 ground pause combos to make up for not having any air combos and give the angels weapons 2 or 3 air pause combos and use the calibur input(for all weapons) maybe even the stinger input in midair. Since they have the ice and fire enemies which limits you i think they should've had a larger move list for the weapons you're limited to.
They might've kept some moves hidden for each weapons shown but i doubt it since they would've shown off some new moves instead of new weapons to show off the gameplay.
They might've kept some moves hidden for each weapons shown but i doubt it since they would've shown off some new moves instead of new weapons to show off the gameplay.