Broken Jump-Cancelling?

[RebeledgeYamato]

I played the demo, and I've got a little problem in trying to jump-cancel. I swear the way it was created in this game, is so heavily portrayed to be fake, maybe a parody of older games. A child could do this by moving his or her thumb with the same inputs. Doesn't matter what weapon on your arsenal.

In the previous games, the fast movement of the A.I. made it difficult to get the right timing. The frame on frame contact had a much smaller window, and dealt damage on impact. Here, it doesn't take much work to get a blank result. Someone tell me if I'm off, if I'm doing it all incorrectly.

 

[crush]

I played the demo, and I've got a little problem in trying to jump-cancel. I swear the way it was created in this game, is so heavily portrayed to be fake, maybe a parody of older games. A child could do this by moving his or her thumb with the same inputs. Doesn't matter what weapon on your arsenal.

In the previous games, the fast movement of the A.I. made it difficult to get the right timing. The frame on frame contact had a much smaller window, and dealt damage on impact. Here, it doesn't take much work to get a blank result. Someone tell me if I'm off, if I'm doing it all incorrectly.

Erm...I know the jump frames are a bit awkward, but it requires you to enemy step on the "right timing" to "attack" an enemy and then "cancel out". They made a longer frame but precise controls are still needed to execute all of your moves as usual.
Spamming the jump button like in your video will simply award you with zero damage. Which is just crass.
If you manage to make a video with the preciseness and then say it's easy, then I say that's can be a valid point...But then again you trained to do it so it's I might as say it's not easy.
And may I ask you what do you mean by fast AI?
In the previous DMC'S the enemies never scrambled to make formations or tried to shield others from projectiles or snatch. The enemies Ai is much clever.

 

[RebeledgeYamato]

Erm...I know the jump frames are a bit awkward, but it requires you to enemy step on the "right timing" to "attack" an enemy and then "cancel out". They made a longer frame but precise controls are still needed to execute all of your moves as usual.
Spamming the jump button like in your video will simply award you with zero damage. Which is just crass.
If you manage to make a video with the preciseness and then say it's easy, then I say that's can be a valid point...But then again you trained to do it so it's I might as say it's not easy.
And may I ask you what do you mean by fast AI?
In the previous DMC'S the enemies never scrambled to make formations or tried to shield others from projectiles or snatch. The enemies Ai is much clever.

I did not Spam the jump button. Its in the description. I actually leaned my thumb at a constant pace left and right, between the jump and special melee button. In DMC3, the enemies move quick before I can jump and aim my Killer Bee strike using Vergil in order to jump off them. Its just hard to hit because it requires precisely timed impact/contact, a smaller open window to jump back and repeat the process. The enemy A.I.'s (the grim reapers carrying a scythe and the mobile eyes with blue and red energy projectiles) move quick before my attack with the beowolf gauntlets can reach them, at times. Note I played Son of Sparda (hardest difficulty of demo) mode here in DmC, while comparing it to DMC3 SE's hard and very hard mode.

 

[m100t8s]

JC in this game is a little different from previous DMCs, Here's some clips from people doing it correctly

You're probably used to the old DMC JC.

 

[crush]

I did not Spam the jump button. Its in the description. I actually leaned my thumb at a constant pace left and right, between the jump and special melee button. In DMC3, the enemies move quick before I can jump and aim my Killer Bee strike using Vergil in order to jump off them. Its just hard to hit because it requires precisely timed impact/contact, a smaller open window to jump back and repeat the process. The enemy A.I.'s (the grim reapers carrying a scythe and the mobile eyes with blue and red energy projectiles) move quick before my attack with the beowolf gauntlets can reach them, at times. Note I played Son of Sparda (hardest difficulty of demo) mode here in DmC, while comparing it to DMC3 SE's hard and very hard mode.

If this wasn't a DMC thread, your discription could easily be thought as "spamming in rhythm. "
Well actually killer bee/starfall cancel was quite spammish...but forget that. Those are only beginners steps.
In DmC you have to have a timing specific for each move since Osiris and arbiter has a bit of time "extending" their blades. If you get it right you can do it in rhythm as you please. If you don't get it right, you have zero damage and be a sitting duck to all the flying drones. It's quite fair.
And for your starfall combo...It's actually the easiest enemy step combo in DMC3 since you have the lock-on and it's super fast. You can't be serious...
If there is some reasons you fail in doing it, it must be...
1. They are in DT mode. (DmC only has SoS so I say comparing is unfair.)
2. You haven't blasted them in the air first.
3. Your enemy just developed cognitive powers.
And for the problems of your enemies...the reapers or seven hells are actually so slow that I can't find a reason why you are failing, but If you are referring to the enigmas you are dealing with a enemy that sucks so bad that even top-players would like to skip fighting them as possible...their AI is not good, it's just their mechanics sucks terribly like fallen and dullahans.

 

[Sunaka Marién]

I, uh, have a really dumb question (I'm sorry! (>.<)) But, uhm, what exactly is jump canceling? And, like, how do you do it?

 

[AngelMode]

I played the demo, and I've got a little problem in trying to jump-cancel. I swear the way it was created in this game, is so heavily portrayed to be fake, maybe a parody of older games. A child could do this by moving his or her thumb with the same inputs. Doesn't matter what weapon on your arsenal.

In the previous games, the fast movement of the A.I. made it difficult to get the right timing. The frame on frame contact had a much smaller window, and dealt damage on impact. Here, it doesn't take much work to get a blank result. Someone tell me if I'm off, if I'm doing it all incorrectly.

Yeah, it's sort of easier to jump cancel the wrong way in this game, they probably did it to make newcomers more aware of it. But it's a bit more in-depth than you might think. Since you gotta time the jump properly with the attack.

Note though that the Arbiter's Drop cancel doesn't work, even if it hits... I don't know if that's a problem or they thought it was too overpowered so they removed it. So there is no point in canceling drop unless to look cool.

I, uh, have a really dumb question (I'm sorry! (>_<)) But, uhm, what exactly is jump canceling? And, like, how do you do it?

Jump cancel (or JC) is when you cancel a move in mid-air into a jump. There is this thing in DMC called enemy step as well, where you jump on top of enemy by pressing jump, so people use that as a way to jump forever. In older games you had to be fast to jump cancel (altering from your attack to your jump button really quickly) but as you can see... that doesn't work in DmC.

So yeah, JC is a way to keep your air combos going for a very long time and to do it just press jump in the middle of an attack, then switch back to the same or another attack.

 

[Sunaka Marién]

Jump cancel (or JC) is when you cancel a move in mid-air into a jump. There is this thing in DMC called enemy step as well, where you jump on top of enemy by pressing jump, so people use that as a way to jump forever. In older games you had to be fast to jump cancel (altering from your attack to your jump button really quickly) but as you can see... that doesn't work in DmC.

So yeah, JC is a way to keep your air combos going for a very long time and to do it just press jump in the middle of an attack, then switch back to the same or another attack.

Ah, I see! Thank you :3

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Why do people keep going "no matter what weapon you're using." Jump Canceling was never a weapon-related ability, it was always a core Dante ability, just like it is here. The only point when the weapon matters is which attacks you can cancel, just like it's always been :/

It's interesting how they took JCing away from the "frame slim window of action" and more on timing, like any proper mechanic. To be fair, this is the first game where they actively designed Jump Canceling to be a mechanic in the game, and not a glitch.

 

[SpawnShooter]

To be fair, this is the first game where they actively designed Jump Canceling to be a mechanic in the game, and not a glitch.

Actually JC has never been a glitch and has been refined through the series to make it what it is now. When DMC3 came out people JC a lot and made combo videos and when Capcom saw this they decide to tweak the system to allow for more diverse easier chains in the Special Edition and then this was refined further in DMC4.

The only things that's ever been a glitch was Distortion and possibly Inertia depending on how you look at it.
Also I disagree they designed JC to be a mechanic in this, it's thrown in, unnecessary and hasn't been designed well at all to flow with the rest of the engine.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

What's Inertia...I haven't heard that one at all.

I beg to differ about it being a mechanic. Considering how combos work, if you want to reset a combo, avoid a link-in combo, or do a move a few times before it gets stale but otherwise can't repeat it in the air (like Arbiter's Drop), Jump Canceling seems an applicable choice.

 

[AngelMode]

The only things that's ever been a glitch was Distortion and possibly Inertia depending on how you look at it.
Also I disagree they designed JC to be a mechanic in this, it's thrown in, unnecessary and hasn't been designed well at all to flow with the rest of the engine.

I somewhat agree and disagree with you there. Yes, it is unnecessary in terms of keeping you in the air for a long time like in past DMCs because you got the chains, which reset your combos without losing any height. But on the other hand, it works really well in terms of looking cool and performing stunts that otherwise would be impossible to do.

Enemy step is a great tool in this game to keep you in the air or to avoid dropping into an enemy's attack.

Overall, it just feels like JC could use some refinement in this game. Like for example, Drop not working when JC'ed. And they could simply get rid of the quick canceling thing by making the start of a move impossible to cancel into a jump.

 

[SpawnShooter]

What's Inertia...I haven't heard that one at all.

I beg to differ about it being a mechanic. Considering how combos work, if you want to reset a combo, avoid a link-in combo, or do a move a few times before it gets stale but otherwise can't repeat it in the air (like Arbiter's Drop), Jump Canceling seems an applicable choice.

Inertia is Guard Flying etc basically momentum in the air after certain cancels.

Fair enough but personally I don't feel the combat in this benefits from JC and feel the combat wasn't designed with it in mind, there are too many recovery frames on the jump and most moves have a start up that is too large. The moves also don't have different enough properties to warrant it.
I do agree there are certain moves that benefit from it but it still fills tacked on and not tweaked enough for this games individual mechanics.


EDIT:

Overall, it just feels like JC could use some refinement in this game. Like for example, Drop not working when JC'ed. And they could simply get rid of the quick canceling thing by making the start of a move impossible to cancel into a jump.

I completely agree, the start up of moves needs to be shaved by a few frames and I think if they changed the 'hit stun' of the JC there wouldn't be as many problems like this.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

I guess for the most part, it's really just sorta nice that they give us so many options. If people find different uses for them, that's awesome.

 

[Gbraga]

You're not waiting for the attack to connect lol

You're basically just spamming enemy step.

 

[TyIquan_DmC]

I feel as though people are complaining things aren't exactly the same..so JC doesn't work exactly as it did before, but it still requires precise timing. I don't see how it's a bad thing simply because this DEMO isn't giving you quite the grasp on every possibility.