A Better Reason For Vergil's 'Betrayal'

[Demi-fiend]

Instead of Vergil trying to 'take over' the human race 'for their own protection', the writers should have said that he wanted to:

"Hunt down the remaining demonic sympathizers -- no matter who they are (whether human or demon)."

Dante didn't mind Vergil putting down that human 'collaborator' because he was already demonic, and therefore beyond saving. But there are obviously humans out there who were happy with the way things were, even the ones who weren't wealthy.

If Vergil had decided to hunt down humans instead, it would have given him a better reason to 'betray the cause' and it would have given Dante a better reason to 'defend humanity' no matter who they were.

You can argue that this is what he was actually trying to do in the 'real' ending when saying he wanted to 'protect the humans from themselves'. It was implied that he would finish off whatever remaining demonic sympathizers that were left alive.

But it wasn't 100% clear. And there were a lot of people who didn't pick up on that.

That's why I think that this should have been his primary reason for turning his back on The Order, and not just simply a 'byproduct' of taking over humanity.

 

[darkmanifest]

I dunno, I think it would have been a little mad for Vergil to want to eliminate demon sympathizers when he's one of those demons himself. A world full of humans who only hate demons is a fine way to find oneself on the wrong end of a witch hunt.

That said, I feel it would have been quite interesting if the story had actually given Vergil, Dante, and Kat reasons to resent humanity as much as the demons. The demon collaborator idea wasn't exploited enough. Like if Eva and Sparda had been betrayed by collaborators, if Kat's foster father had been one, if the Order had been infiltrated by collaborators. If over and over again it had been heavily emphasized that they're trying to save people who don't want to be saved, are fighting hard to stay enslaved. Then Vergil's decision to rule would have been much more sympathetic and defensible, rather than "lol power bite me Kat".

 

[LysseC]

The demon collaborator idea wasn't exploited enough. Like if Eva and Sparda had been betrayed by collaborators, if Kat's foster father had been one, if the Order had been infiltrated by collaborators. If over and over again it had been heavily emphasized that they're trying to save people who don't want to be saved, are fighting hard to stay enslaved. Then Vergil's decision to rule would have been much more sympathetic and defensible, rather than "lol power bite me Kat".

Kat's foster father was a demon, if I remember correctly, but you're right, there is little attention brought to the issue of demon collaborators. It woud be interesting to se what would be the reaction of a normal human in discovering his/her friend/lover/relative is a demon collaborator...

And, in general, I will never get tired of repeating that it would have been downright awesome, in terms of plot, if Vergil wasn't shown as simply the bad guy who wants to take Mundus's place and looks down upon humanity.

 

[Dante47]

I don't see how it was a "betrayal" and I'm getting a tad annoyed at the use of the term compared to how relevant it is to the situation. Vergil thought that Dante shared his views of humanity, and wanted the throne as much as he did, only to be shocked that Dante fought for independence. It was a simple difference of opinions and ideologies that resulted in the most pivotal moment of the story and an event that will forever shape the future conflicts of the series.

 

[Demi-fiend]

That said, I feel it would have been quite interesting if the story had actually given Vergil, Dante, and Kat reasons to resent humanity as much as the demons.

Good point. I was actually trying to find a plausible reason, but it's hard to come up with something solid, you know?

I don't see how it was a "betrayal" and I'm getting a tad annoyed at the use of the term compared to how relevant it is to the situation.

Well, that's why I put the word "betrayal" in quotation marks -- it wasn't so much a betrayal as it was hiding your intentions and then sharing them at the last minute -- um...

Well, I'm sure there's a better term for it. I just have no idea what it is.

Also... yay! People finally responded to the thread. owo

 

[MigsRZXAStylish]

I agree with all the previous posts here. The demon collaborators lacked some depth; we need to get into them more on how they became one (maybe similar to the way in They Live?). Now DmC have its own fair share of plotholes too like DMC...

 

[Stylish Nero]

I agree with all the previous posts here. The demon collaborators lacked some depth; we need to get into them more on how they became one (maybe similar to the way in They Live?). Now DmC have its own fair share of plotholes too like DMC...

You clearly seem to lack the understanding of what "plot holes" means.

A plot hole is something that contradicts the plot or a conflicting story element such as two or more coincidences in a narrative that downright contradict the other or is an omission of relevant information usually crucial to the plot and thus it contradicts itself.

Plot Hole: Something that goes against logic or the previous events in the fiction.
Not a Plot Hole: A small unexplained event in the story.

There might be some plot holes in DmC but the demon collaborators aren't one. They're just an unexplored concept and that is not contradicting anything established in the DmC plot now is it?

The only plot hole in DMC I ever noticed (well when it came to the games only) where when Trish stated that Eva and Vergil were both killed 20 years ago but Vergil is alive and kicking in DMC3 (10 years before DMC1) but that is debatable.

 

[Dante47]

Good point. I was actually trying to find a plausible reason, but it's hard to come up with something solid, you know?


Well, that's why I put the word "betrayal" in quotation marks -- it wasn't so much a betrayal as it was hiding your intentions and then sharing them at the last minute -- um...

Well, I'm sure there's a better term for it. I just have no idea what it is.

Well, I guess you could label it pure ignorance. Vergil just assumed that Dante lusted for power after being oppressed for so long like he did, but what Vergil didn't realize is that Dante had been humbled by his oppression, unlike Vergil who wallowed in self pity in his posh life style.

 

[MigsRZXAStylish]

You clearly seem to lack the understanding of what "plot holes" means.

A plot hole is something that contradicts the plot or a conflicting story element such as two or more coincidences in a narrative that downright contradict the other or is an omission of relevant information usually crucial to the plot and thus it contradicts itself.

Plot Hole: Something that goes against logic or the previous events in the fiction.
Not a Plot Hole: A small unexplained event in the story.

There might be some plot holes in DmC but the demon collaborators aren't one. They're just an unexplored concept and that is not contradicting anything established in the DmC plot now is it?

The only plot hole in DMC I ever noticed (well when it came to the games only) where when Trish stated that Eva and Vergil were both killed 20 years ago but Vergil is alive and kicking in DMC3 (10 years before DMC1) but that is debatable.

Thanks for clarifying things, SN. Still, those collaborators needed more exploration.

Well, DMC Dante lacked some depth too. We know he lost Eva and Vergil 20 years ago. Yes, it's debatable about Vergil between DMC3 and DMC1. I mean, how did Dante carry on in his life for the past 10 years prior to the DMC3 Manga?

 

[Stylish Nero]

Thanks for clarifying things, SN. Still, those collaborators needed more exploration.

Well, DMC Dante lacked some depth too. We know he lost Eva and Vergil 20 years ago. Yes, it's debatable about Vergil between DMC3 and DMC1. I mean, how did Dante carry on in his life for the past 10 years prior to the DMC3 Manga?

The DMC1 novel confirmed that he was adopted but pfffftttt that sh*t isn't canon anymore but like Nero he was probably adopted or lived on streets...in fact the DMC3 manga hinted to him living on streets before he was taken in by Enzo.

 

[MigsRZXAStylish]

The DMC1 novel confirmed that he was adopted but pfffftttt that sh*t isn't canon anymore but like Nero he was probably adopted or lived on streets...in fact the DMC3 manga hinted to him living on streets before he was taken in by Enzo.

Let's get back on topic, SN. I don't wanna drown in plotholes galore too much here.

I was still shocked as to why DmC Vergil stabbed both Dante and Kat in the back with his beliefs towards humanity...

 

[Demi-fiend]

in fact the DMC3 manga hinted to him living on streets before he was taken in by Enzo.

What aggravates me is the fact that some people out there still call DmC Dante a "hobo" while it was clearly implied that DMC3 Dante went through the same thing.

 

[MigsRZXAStylish]

What aggravates me is the fact that some people out there still call DmC Dante a "hobo" while it was clearly implied that DMC3 Dante went through the same thing.

WTF? That is hypocrisy!

EDIT: I also remember that you said DMC1 fans hate DMC3 because of DMC3 Dante. Maybe I can be safe to say that the fanbase has already been divided way before DmC was announced. We could continue that in PM.

 

[Stylish Nero]

What aggravates me is the fact that some people out there still call DmC Dante a "hobo" while it was clearly implied that DMC3 Dante went through the same thing.

Well I don't know when Enzo picked up Dante but when Dante was 18 he clearly had a house or pad of his own to live in and so with the start of DMC3 he had home and place to live, eat, call, get calls, take showers, play pool, play instruments, jam to music on his jukebox, and etc. DmC Dante was either DMC3 Dante's age or older and lived in a trailer house in the middle of a pier which was thrown into a river so technically they may have similar upbringings but one found a home and got his life together (somewhat) quicker than the other person.

It is that aesthetic instinct that draws people to say DmC Dante is a hobo and not say the same thing about Dante since we never seen Dante's child years living on the streets but we saw DmC Dante's adult years living on the streets or in a trailer.

I usually don't consider DmC Dante a hobo since he lived in a trailer.....he is borderline hobo. I only consider people without homes technically as "hobos" but when I do its on the basis he dresses like one.....well a fancy hobo.....as fancy as a hobo can get.

 

[MigsRZXAStylish]

Well I don't know when Enzo picked up Dante but when Dante was 18 he clearly had a house or pad of his own to live in and so with the start of DMC3 he had home and place to live, eat, call, get calls, take showers, play pool, play instruments, jam to music on his jukebox, and etc. DmC Dante was either DMC3 Dante's age or older and lived in a trailer house in the middle of a pier which was thrown into a river so technically they may have similar upbringings but one found a home and got his life together (somewhat) quicker than the other person.

It is that aesthetic instinct that draws people to say DmC Dante is a hobo and not say the same thing about Dante since we never seen Dante's child years living on the streets but we saw DmC Dante's adult years living on the streets or in a trailer.

I usually don't consider DmC Dante a hobo since he lived in a trailer.....he is borderline hobo. I only consider people without homes technically as "hobos" but when I do its on the basis he dresses like one.....well a fancy hobo.....as fancy as a hobo can get.

He's one hobo with style!

 

[Demi-fiend]

WTF? That is hypocrisy!

EDIT: I also remember that you said DMC1 fans hate DMC3 because of DMC3 Dante. Maybe I can be safe to say that the fanbase has already been divided way before DmC was announced. We could continue that in PM.

Yes, we most certainly should. And it's not just DMC. It's ninja turtles, New 52, James Bond, and blablabla lfkjngvaf;ljnv;salnva;sfnva;sfjnvas;jfnvas;fvnafs;vlknzdsf;vnasfd;vlnjsvn'slaf

He's one hobo with style!

You got that right.

See? Even pretty boy here agrees with us.