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Shadow
Shadow
I honestly don't get why people are finding this so funny. The site's run entirely by volunteers--volunteers that now have several times the work they had before on their plates because people couldn't just be mature and use site skins or other features to block a single story that annoyed them. How, exactly, is an utter lack of regard for others, and the work they're doing, funny?
Morgan
Morgan
Because it IS funny. Full stop.
Morgan
Morgan
AO3 earned this by refusing to curtail the tagging issue when Sexy Times With Wangxian was mass reported for its absurd amount of tags. "Mass tagging doesn't violate the TOS" doesn't excuse how big an accessibility issue that is for people with screen-readers. Tag Limits are common sense; near-infinite tags is not a right. Since STWW got a pass because the site couldn't be arsed, here we are. Lighten up.
therogis
therogis
I have to say, I agreed with Shadow as long as I didn't think of the mass tagging accessibility issue.

A good reminder (for myself) to check the facts before judging...
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Reactions: Morgan
Shadow
Shadow
Ao3's an archive. The entire point is for people to be able to post whatever they want, however they want, without fear of random deletion or losing their work. The Archive stated, multiple times, that they couldn't rush through a decision on STiWW, but that they were discussing what to do. People decided to be entitled instead of waiting.
Shadow
Shadow
Sure, the writer was in the wrong. But the site also provides tools to help with people frustrated with the long tags; you can hide tags and also shorten the tag field so you don't have to see them. Using fic uploads to make the site unstable was never the answer. Don't tell me to lighten up because you think harassment is funny. :)
Morgan
Morgan
AO3 is not an archive in the way that matters. Subscriptions, interaction through comments/Kudos, and features like "challenges" and "collections" places it as a social media website through its practical use. It was founded around the same time as Twitter, Tumblr, and Reddit, with similar social features as those sites, because fanfiction and fandom itself is a social activity.
Morgan
Morgan
AO3 consistently refuses to function as an archive where you can "put what you want" when it changes content regularly by redirecting tags and leading to link rot, when posting prompt memes and brainstorming posts violate TOS as much as linking to Patreon or Ko-Fi does. Plagiarism is already accounted for. Authors have had their content randomly deleted from the site through no fault of their own.
Morgan
Morgan
All those features you like to tout now were implemented because people advocated for it, while being told those same features were unreasonable, not feasible, would take too long, were "inherently censorship", would lead to a slippery slope of banning content and Fahrenheit-level book-burning, etc. when the issue with previous sites was their being beholden to advertisers, which AO3 is not.
Morgan
Morgan
AO3 is still evaluating its abuse policies to live up to "maximum inclusivity" in acknowledgment that the OTW in practice is a "safe space" for people to actively harm marginalized groups via maliciously tagged/purposely untagged content + slurs in the comment sections. You know, trending towards "moderation". Like Reddit and Twitter. Without wringing their hands about what's "technically legal".
Morgan
Morgan
The tools to circumvent long tags in STWW are the exact ones people can use to circumvent 1984 tags. The report button exists. Or, AO3 can stop catering to todgers who think a site that self-identifies as "Our" while excluding disabled, neurodivergent, and nonwhite fans is acceptable, just because accessibility tools and basic moderation is too hard.
Shadow
Shadow
As one of those disabled, neurodivergent fans you want to use as a scapegoat, if you're so upset at the site either leave it and go elsewhere or join the board and try to push for changes that you think it needs, but don't you dare act like you care about us while joyfully advocating for a means that makes the site harder for us to use. Don't hide behind us just to justify being an @ss.
Shadow
Shadow
As to inclusivity, yes! That's a huge problem. But it's a huge problem in fandom in general. Blaming a site for what some commenters said doesn't solve it. It's something that needs to be addressed in a wider fandom area. This entire incident? Solves nothing. Teaches fandom jerks nothing. Does nothing except cause more frustrations.
Shadow
Shadow
Ao3 has problems, I never said it didn't, but it's infinitely better than what we had before (do you remember strikethrough? boldthrough? that bs with FFN? enormous swathes of fandom vanishing at the tiniest hint of misguided outrage?) and the staff do actively want to do well by their members. And some of those complaints you had are explained in their FAQ.
Shadow
Shadow
But this childishness people are engaging in? Isn't going to make them be able to change things quicker and for the better. It just makes any fixes they were planning have to go on the backburner as they try to make all this nonsense stop causing site problems. It's doing the exact opposite of what you're claiming to want.
Morgan
Morgan
Not sure why you think I have an account on AO3 to delete that would somehow preclude me laughing at the site's failures despite it asking for people's money repeatedly, but assuming that about me so you can feel morally justified in calling me an "@ss" in my own status was a bigger priority to you than addressing the rest of my commentary. All I have to say is, that took you long enough!
Morgan
Morgan
Like I said, the failures of other fandom spaces were obligations to advertisers/parent corporations. Is AO3 supposedly run by "queer fans"? Yes? Then literally no amount of moderation to account for accessibility, or around racist works or sexually explicit RPF about minors, will make it stop being "queer friendly".
Morgan
Morgan
Conflating "LGBTQ content" with "virulently racist fiction" and "explicit content about minors written for titillation" plus "moderation" with "government censorship" to present AO3 as the Last Bastion of Queerness (with racism as the price of admission) as if gay (and poc) authors don't exist anywhere outside the site isn't a strong Own The Antis remark, it's just a massively brain-dead take.
Morgan
Morgan
You know actual Library Associations curate their content, fight censorship, and focus on Equity, Diversity, and Inclusion with hardline stances against racism and -phobias, yeah? It's actually not that hard to condemn those things instead of hand-wringing about how widespread the problem is and how "well, we'll get to it eventually! It's just so big a problem, you see".
Morgan
Morgan
LAs are certainly not hemming and hawing over how to implement equity/anti-racism in curated content, the way AO3 makes excuses. Not all countries agree on what "consent" and "age of majority" even means, and that hasn't stopped AO3 having the warnings for "underage" and "noncon" anyway. Maybe because implementing a warning doesn't actually need unanimous agreement?
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