Your reaction to the DMC5 reveal

berto

I Saw the Devil
Staff member
Messages
7,336
Likes
6,686
Points
11,925
DMC was going for a Western style before Itsuno and his staff smeared an anime aesthetic and narrative style all over 3 and 4.
Yeah, that's exactly what I mean. The aesthetics of DMC3 are not anime. Nor the are the ones in 4 but 4 has more cliche archetypes so it's brushed off.

Dante's mannerisms and appeal was largely modeled after Western action heroes,
And one or two '80s manga characters. In fact, very specifically that. Even with that aside, though, doesn't matter if a game takes western influence, how would that suddenly make it a western game? For example: I can tell Guille was made by a Japanese designer, no matter how American the influence of his creation was.

there was a far larger emphasis on guns than swords, the enemies were far more oriented towards mythology and superstition than simply satisfying a 'cool' factor...
Yeah...

Team Little Devils even traveled to Europe to better study castles and churches as to make Mallet Island's Gothic feel even more authentic.
They traveled to Spain. The art style is Art Nouveau and they specifically looked at the works of Antoni Gaudi. More to the point, a lot of Japanese games take place on this side of the world. and they sure as hell don't get called western.

If DMC5 goes closer to being Westernized, that's going back to its roots, not diverging from them.
Yeah, no. Again, just because something takes influence from another part of the world doesn't make it that. Believe me, I can tell that the Keanu Reeves version of 47 Ronin wasn't made in Japan and, aside from the actors, it's not a Japanese movie, nor Kubo, for that matter, in the same fashion Coco is not a Mexican movie just because it's set in Mexico and has an all Latin cast. It's still very clearly an American film. The DMC games have always been clearly Japanese and having western influence does not equate to having western roots. You wouldn't argue that Zelda has Western roots because it was Western fantasy elements over Japanese ones.

You should check out the trailer again. There's a lot of daytime shots of Nero fighting in some church courtyard that very much resembles what we got in DMC4 (which, I'll remind you, people actually complained about not being DARK and GLOOMY as enviornmments seen in 1&3. So if you find this aesthetic to gloomy and colorless (though I don't, personally) you have those people to thank.
In DMC4, what little there was of of Fortuna, looked more Rococo than anything in this trailer. Those looked Baroque to me. Could be wrong, though. If I remember correctly, for DMC4 the team traveled to Turkey or Romania. Somewhere in Eastern Europe.

More to the point, it's not just about the color or lighting, or even the art period, it's about what the world looks like when it's infested with demons. In DMC1 it was contorted, in parts organic, implying that it might be alive in places. DMC2 had it's world slowly become contorted and covered in weird matter. DMC3 had the tower covered in what I can only describe as dark fantasy architecture pieces with more standard old architecture, but with a little set dressing and mechanical clockwork motiff it worked out well to imply a chaotic place and I'd buy that it was a demon infested tower. DMC4 drops anything of the sort and Fortuna, even when it's crawling with the hordes of hell, looked like a lovely place to visit with nice castles, victorian churches and the most pleasant of whether. Maybe I'd still complain that DMC4 was still too bright even when they altered the town and forest but at least I'd feel like they tried to add an air of demonic. With DmC it felt like the world was trolling me and if at some point the walls had said something like 'cool story, bro' or 'that's not what your mom told me last night' I would've not been shocked. The Inception effect was cool but it didn't really scream demonic. DMC5 has the plant but it's not really doing it for me. Plus Redgrave looks like London.

PS: You didn't close your bracket.

This really makes me laugh. Resident Evil is blatantly Japanese?
Why? You saying that RE has no hints to it that it's a Japanese game? Are you telling me that if I showed you RE4 and Gears of War you wouldn't be able to tell me which one was made in Japan just because they both are supposedly geared at a western audience? How about Resident Evil and Alone in the Dark? The Division and Binary Domain? Even better, between DMC1 and DmC are you unable to tell me which was made by the western studio?

You should try forwarding that memo to Capcom, because they have oriented that series towards a Western market harder than any other franchise they own.
Again, Orienting to the west Western a game does not make. FFXIII was very heavily made for western audiences. Pretty sure no one's ever mistaken that game for Western.

They even admitted that movies like Blackhawk Down and Die Hard were inspirations for RE5's writing, which is extremely evident in both that game and RE6's constant need to have its heroes diving in and out of explosions and quipping Stallone-style one-liners.
Yeah, I can see that.

Even if Capcom is clueless about how different their product is from actual Western entertainment, they were still trying MASSIVELY to make the RE series as much of a Western action game as possible.
And that is my problem right there. The Inafune approach didn't do them any favors, nor did the RE6 one of trying to please everyone. I like RE6 but from what I know I kinda am in the minority on that one. And to correct the main idea of that statement, they're no longer trying to make RE an action blockbuster. If anything REmake2 is going to be more of a Romero thing.

And as far as people thinking DMC is more 'anime' than Japanese, you have no one but Capcom to thank for that.
Capcom is to blame for not people not being able to tell different forms of Japanese media apart and just bunching everything in to a single category, namely 'anime?' It is literally like slapping D.E.B.S. and Brokeback Mountain together because they're gay movies (Well, one's a lesbian flick, but it's still a dumb romcom of the lowest common denominator), or Pride of Baghdad with Iron Man because they're both comics.

What with DMC3 literally turning into a rain-smattered, melodramatic shonen TV episode and DMC4 cranking the anime aesthetic and sappy writing to maximum,
Case and point. No, DMC3 was not anime style, it was the new Japanese B-movie genre, one popularized by Yuji Shimomura and Ryuhei Kitamura with films like Versus, Aragami, Death Trance, and arguable extension Hell Driver, Tokyo Gore Police and such. Shonen has very different archetypes and style.

and having an ACTUAL ANIME released in between I'm surprised more people don't think the Devil May Cry series is actually based on some anime.
The anime was hardly the most faithful adaptation, canon or otherwise. Dante was a hobo, the action was dull, the stories underwhelming and the demons sucked. Even so, I never saw anyone ever pull up a picture of any enemy or room in DMC 1-3 and nag about how they looked like they came straight out of an anime, nor the characters, either. Why is he dressed like that? Sure. She looks like Japanese school girl, once or twice. But I've never heard anyone say why does this look like Dragonball or Pokemon or FMA, Speed Race, Yugioh, or even DevilMan.

Actually, now that I think about, I know where it came from, It was the InuYasha comparison that started around the time of DMC3. Until then , but, really, how many of those parallels are so uniquely anime, and are the two so indistinguishable from each other? The facial features, the proportions of the characters, and even general physics that govern each world. The comparison is fair since the parallels are undeniable, but the dismissiveness and even condescendance isn't warranted, especially since they aren't unique to one bieng an anime.

The spoilers are only to save on space.
 
Last edited:

WolfOD64

That Guy Who Hates Fox McCloud
Messages
1,888
Likes
4,478
Points
4,315
Yeah, that's exactly what I mean. The aesthetics of DMC3 are not anime. Nor the are the ones in 4 but 4 has more cliche archetypes so it's brushed off.
The character designs and fight scenes in both 3 and 4 are pretty anime-esque to me. With most of Dante and Vergil's rivalry being showcased aesthetically through things like color, hairstyle, and fighting style, to the kind of shonen-esque monologues they wax in the rain and during confrontations, I find it more of an anime-style game than DMC1 or DMC2 ever came close to being.

And one or two '80s manga characters. In fact, very specifically that. Even with that aside, though, doesn't matter if a game takes western influence, how would that suddenly make it a western game? For example: I can tell Guille was made by a Japanese designer, no matter how American the influence of his creation was.
I never said having Western influences automatically made it a Western game. In controls, combat sensibilities, and narrative techniques, the game is very Japanese. But the original two games, and the tone and direction Kamiya and Mikami envisioned for the series from concept to execution was far more slanted towards Western entertainment than Japanese entertainment. This is nakedly apparent to the way Dante was conceived in development, the kind of characters Kamiya wanted to surround him with, the more hard-boiled American action hero persona they wanted to capture, and so on. No, these things don't make it a Western game, but much like Resident Evil---which from inception was designed and catered with Western horror and B-movies in mind---they wanted the game to be more oriented towards a Western tone and appeal. This is a factual aspect of how DMC1 was envisioned and marketed, and to deny it is to feign ignorance.


They traveled to Spain. The art style is Art Nouveau and they specifically looked at the works of Antoni Gaudi. More to the point, a lot of Japanese games take place on this side of the world. and they sure as hell don't get called western.
Yeah. And they didn't re-interpret those aspects in a more Japanese style, a la Persona or Drakengard or Final Fantasy. They wanted to capture the essence of Gothic stylings and European Medieval Architecture. This was a deliberate choice to make the game's setting very Western in tone and atmoshphere. Again, this doesn't make it a Westernized game, but it's a clear indication of what kind of non-Japanese atmosphere and setting that they were aiming for.


Yeah, no. Again, just because something takes influence from another part of the world doesn't make it that. Believe me, I can tell that the Keanu Reeves version of 47 Ronin wasn't made in Japan and, aside from the actors, it's not a Japanese movie, nor Kubo, for that matter, in the same fashion Coco is not a Mexican movie just because it's set in Mexico and has an all Latin cast. It's still very clearly an American film. The DMC games have always been clearly Japanese and having western influence does not equate to having western roots. You wouldn't argue that Zelda has Western roots because it was Western fantasy elements over Japanese ones.
I meant Westernized in influence, not genre or background. That's what the bulk of people seem mad about with the more Western aesthetic to the environments, setting, and character types.

When those were apart of DMC's identity to begin with.


In DMC4, what little there was of of Fortuna, looked more Rococo than anything in this trailer. Those looked Baroque to me. Could be wrong, though. If I remember correctly, for DMC4 the team traveled to Turkey or Romania. Somewhere in Eastern Europe.
What did this have to do with my point about people complaining about it being "not dark and foreboding enough" to suit DMC?

More to the point, it's not just about the color or lighting, or even the art period, it's about what the world looks like when it's infested with demons. In DMC1 it was contorted, in parts organic, implying that it might be alive in places. DMC2 had it's world slowly become contorted and covered in weird matter. DMC3 had the tower covered in what I can only describe as dark fantasy architecture pieces with more standard old architecture, but with a little set dressing and mechanical clockwork motiff it worked out well to imply a chaotic place and I'd buy that it was a demon infested tower. DMC4 drops anything of the sort and Fortuna, even when it's crawling with the hordes of hell, looked like a lovely place to visit with nice castles, victorian churches and the most pleasant of whether. Maybe I'd still complain that DMC4 was still too bright even when they altered the town and forest but at least I'd feel like they tried to add an air of demonic. With DmC it felt like the world was trolling me and if at some point the walls had said something like 'cool story, bro' or 'that's not what your mom told me last night' I would've not been shocked. The Inception effect was cool but it didn't really scream demonic. DMC5 has the plant but it's not really doing it for me. Plus Redgrave looks like London.[/SPOILER]
PS: You didn't close your bracket.
Fortuna, unlike Mallet Island, Isle de Marle or Dante's City, is a religious city-state run by an Order that functions exclusively to slay and hunt demons. It goes to logic that the city wouldn't look like a demon-ridden apocalpyse since Members of the Order are presumably out and about trying to quell the demon forces in high numbers. The Order of the Sword isn't like some random city government, caught with their pants down at the sight of a demon invasion...they believe in demons, and hunt them regularly. They aren't about to let their own city, their culture, their architecture and religious monuments fall prey to demonic destruction.

Besides, DMC5 seems to be bringing about the demonic apocalypse aesthetic to its visuals, so I don't know what you're complaining about specifically. Is it the lack of artistic influences like the previous games? Because if so, then maybe we should wait for more footage. Besides, it's not like previous DMC games were allergic to showing urban-style cityscape. Plenty of DMC2 has you traversing skyscrapers and city courtyards, and DMC3 has its first two levels in very urban, albeit rundown town areas with bars and schoolbuses.


Why? You saying that RE has no hints to it that it's a Japanese game? Are you telling me that if I showed you RE4 and Gears of War you wouldn't be able to tell me which one was made in Japan just because they both are supposedly geared at a western audience? How about Resident Evil and Alone in the Dark? The Division and Binary Domain? Even better, between DMC1 and DmC are you unable to tell me which was made by the western studio?
RE4, 5 and 6 were created, influenced, developed and produced with Western influences almost exclusively in mind. The setpieces, weapons, characters, conflicts, and strictly American angle on the bulk of its main characters was done to create scenarios and stories with a Western-style tone, for both Western audiences but also to provide something in the vein of Western entertainment for Japanese fans. Capcom has explictly mentioned the former plenty of times, with numerous references to the scriptwriters they've hired from Hollywood productions, to the Western films that have inspired the likes of RE5 and RE6, to outright stating that they wanted RE6 to compete with the likes of Call of Duty.

This was the point I was making. Capcom, as a Japanese developer, was trying to sell their game as a Western product, regardless of how different you or I may see RE5/6 as the polar opposite of The Division, or Alone in The Dark. The attempt was there. And that attempt is still here in DMC5.


Again, Orienting to the west Western a game does not make. FFXIII was very heavily made for western audiences. Pretty sure no one's ever mistaken that game for Western.
Good, because I never called DMC a Western game series, just one catered very heavily towards Western audiences.


And that is my problem right there. The Inafune approach didn't do them any favors, nor did the RE6 one of trying to please everyone. I like RE6 but from what I know I kinda am in the minority on that one. And to correct the main idea of that statement, they're no longer trying to make RE an action blockbuster. If anything REmake2 is going to be more of a Romero thing.
I never stated endorsement or disdain for Capcom's decision, I just presented it objectively. This isn't something new that they're doing...and I couldn't care less if, aesthetically or tonally, DMC5 was more Western than God of War so long as the gameplay is up to par.


Capcom is to blame for not people not being able to tell different forms of Japanese media apart and just bunching everything in to a single category, namely 'anime?'
Rolling a bunch of heavy-handed anime influences into the aesthetic, narrative style, and design of its characters is what leads people to believe DMC is similar to anime, not some cultural inability to separate the two.

The anime was hardly the most faithful adaptation, canon or otherwise. Dante was a hobo, the action was dull, the stories underwhelming and the demons sucked.
Doesn't change the fact that almost all of the same writers from the game series worked on it, or that many of the same narrative tropes and stylistic choices endemic to the games made it into the anime. In fact, many people I talk to think the anime actually worked so well because DMC was already so much like an anime already.

Even so, I never saw anyone ever pull up a picture of any enemy or room in DMC 1-3 and nag about how they looked like they came straight out of an anime, nor the characters, either.
The way the characters act, are designed, spew dialogue, and fight is very much anime-inspired. Go onto the DMC Reddit and look at how many people are already spurging at DMC5 for the new game removing the anime-esque elements for a more Western feel. Plenty of people are into DMC because of how anime-like it is. That isn't even up for debate. The fans are the literal example of it.

Actually, now that I think about, I know where it came from, It was the InuYasha comparison that started around the time of DMC3.
And Trigun.
And Hellsing.
And Cowboy Bebop.
And Vampire Hunter D.
And Bleach.
And DragonBall, with the way the characters fought.

Seriously, I still see these comparisons made by fans today. I don't know what you're talking about.
 

berto

I Saw the Devil
Staff member
Messages
7,336
Likes
6,686
Points
11,925
Ok. There is way too much to respond to here and we'll be going in circles. Just a few points.

I never called DMC a Western game series, just one catered very heavily towards Western audiences.
So then when you said 'If DMC5 goes closer to being Westernized, that's going back to its roots, not diverging from them' you weren't saying that those roots it'd be returning were its western roots?

Plenty of people are into DMC because of how anime-like it is. That isn't even up for debate. The fans are the literal example of it.
Oh, well, if they say so then debate over. How dare I?

Besides, you mean the same fans who think these two are the same?

Also, the reason people mentioned Bleach is because the voice actors for Ichigo and Orehime are the same ones who played Kyrie and Nero, not because they had, oh so much in common. There is no other actual long standing connection.

This was the point I was making. Capcom, as a Japanese developer, was trying to sell their game as a Western product
Umm, no, they are Japanese company selling a Japanese product that they made to appeal to western audiences. As far as I know, no Japanese developer has ever claimed, acted or tried to pass off their product was a western one no matter how many times they made it clear that it was stated that they specifically made it for western audiences.

Doesn't change the fact that almost all of the same writers from the game series worked on it
Morihashi Bingo wasn't involved and none of the script writers have any Capcom credits that I can find.

In fact, many people I talk to think the anime actually worked so well because DMC was already so much like an anime already.
They can like it all they want, who am I to tell them what to do with their money? But the show was underwhelming and I can't think of any examples where it was like the games.

What did this have to do with my point about people complaining about it being "not dark and foreboding enough" to suit DMC?
Nothing. It was just about passing information.

The way the characters act, are designed, spew dialogue, and fight is very much anime-inspired.
Japanese inspired, yes, but not anime. Track down a 2000 Japanese film called Versus, or Aragami from 2003 and you'll see the how correlations between DMC3 and the Japanese action b-movie genre are far clore than that of any anime. Specially versus since it was the project Yuji Shimomura worked on right before he did DMC3.
 
Last edited:

moniker

Well-Known Member
Messages
6
Likes
11
Points
85
It gave me a sense of relief. Im glad its finally announced. I didnt have much expectation for it except to feel the gothic atmosphere once again. From the music to surrounding. I didnt see it on the trailer but then again, maybe theres gothic stages/maps besides what was shown since we only saw Nero's gameplay. I never cared about Nero much so the attitude and tone just reminds me of DmC. I playthrough DMC4 just once years ago and didnt really remember anything. So my expectation just correlates to the DMC1 and DMC3. Heres also hoping they gave DMC2's ending attention for continuation here in DMC5.
 

Erian1Mortal

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
Messages
951
Likes
1,356
Points
2,045
I was already ready to go to bed (couldn't sleep anyway due to being deaf on one ear...)
Then a friend said it was just shown at the Conference, I had thought it would be shown at Sony's if at all.
Went back to the PC, watched the trailer.

Immediate reaction: Confused, unsure.
Nero Rev's sword: Realization, it's really DMC5, I'm not already asleep.
Music Kicks in: Dunno why but I'm liking this.
Watched the rest of the trailer with the biggest grin in years.

Yes I'm hyped for this game!
To me the graphical style is a normal evolution, like it was from DMC3 to 4.
I never understood why people said DMC was "Anime", it was over the top as hell but in terms of style, it was always more action movie or comic book movie to me, so the new style fits (in my opinion).
Neros and Dante's re-Designs grew on me after watching the whole thing like 30 times and going through it frame by frame.

I understand the skepticism though, it's been 10 Years. Still the franchise that's largely responsible for making me a gamer and (as dumb as it sounds) pushing me into Game Design and Art is back and it's looking to be a fun ride so far!
 

Dante's Stalker

Mangler of devil arms.
Contributor
Gold Supporter
Messages
7,894
Likes
8,696
Points
15,615
My reaction in this order:

-WHATAREYOUKIDDINGME DMC5 IS FINALLY ANNOUNCED?!?!
Yes, of course, it WOULD be announced the first time I miss E3 in 5 years. :meh:
Why is everyone bashing the trailer? OMG, I don't think I want to watch the trailer after reading all of THAT.

*watches trailer anyway*
*rewatches trailer by screenshotting just about every friggin frame*

So, if the game plays out coherently, Nero loses his arm in the beginning of the game. Kinda like how he got his arm injured in DMC4, only this time Capcom will show us what happens rather than explaining it in the guide book. +1 rep for you, Capcom. That's already a good sign story-wise, anyway. What I don't like is that Nero loses his friggin arm.
I'm not too happy about that. I loved spamming the DB. Capcom sucks. What I want to know is what happened to Kyrie and where she fits into the game, if at all.

I like the new girl (Nico?) She reminds me of Goldstein from the manga. Hell yeah!

And then there's the dude in the beginning of the trailer. Am I the only one who thought 'Rodin' right away? I mean I guess he's more buff in Bayonetta but....anyhow.
The demons in this thing look like mutated chickens, to be completely honest.

Anyway. I like Nero, I like that he's all in black, I like his cut, I like his voice, I like that he's a bit more rough around the edges than he was in DMC4, I like that Red Queen is still in it, I like that it's clear in the trailer what the main plot line for the game is, I like that it's familiar but new, I like that it doesn't have the anime thing going, and even though I'm going to miss the gothic theme in the environment, everything else kinda makes up for it. So. I'm pre-ordering this game.

I have no comment on Dante.
 
Last edited:

Teal

World's First Sentient Vitriolic Vagina
Messages
289
Likes
492
Points
760
Yeah, I don't really get the arm criticism either. It may have some story implications. Maybe his old arm is vital in creating a new race of demon-human hybrids, I dunno, but in terms of gameplay it's only gonna be sn improvement if anything else.
 
Thread starter #90

Foxtrot94

Elite Hunter
Gold Supporter
Messages
6,272
Likes
9,323
Points
12,465
Maybe his old arm is vital in creating a new race of demon-human hybrids, I dunno
By now it's pretty clear that the guy who cut it off Nero was Vergil so I think the only story implication is that he wants his Yamato back. There may be more to it but that seems the most realistic scenario so far.
 

Lain

Wandering Musician
Gold Supporter
Messages
2,614
Likes
4,961
Points
5,465
Also why do the military seem to have so much trouble with the demons? It isn't like normal humans can't kill them.
It's the Conservation of Ninjutsu trope. One people fighting demons with nothing but guns is badass, but when you have loads of people...narrative law dictates that they must be fodder. :tongue:
 

WolfOD64

That Guy Who Hates Fox McCloud
Messages
1,888
Likes
4,478
Points
4,315
So then when you said 'If DMC5 goes closer to being Westernized, that's going back to its roots, not diverging from them' you weren't saying that those roots it'd be returning were its western roots?
I meant that it would be returning to its roots as a Japanese game with a larger emphasis on Western influences than Japanese ones, more specifically, anime.

Oh, well, if they say so then debate over. How dare I?
Not my fault you don't talk to more fans. Otherwise, you'd probably find out firsthand.

Besides, you mean the same fans who think these two are the same?
Not the same, but similar. I can't tell you how many people I know who were completely foreign to video games but loved anime like DragonBall, and ended up picking up DMC3 after seeing the DBZ-style fights showcased in the trailers and cutscenes. It's the same reason a wealth of people really got into FF7 back in the 90's: they recognize familiar elements in the presentation, choreography, style and characters from anime they enjoyed, and were thus drawn to it as a product,

Also, the reason people mentioned Bleach is because the voice actors for Ichigo and Orehime are the same ones who played Kyrie and Nero, not because they had, oh so much in common. There is no other actual long standing connection.
Yeah. I'm sure the frinetic, overly-choreographed fight scenes and numerous demons aren't at all compared to Bleach either. I'm sure that it's just the voice actors.

Umm, no, they are Japanese company selling a Japanese product that they made to appeal to western audiences. As far as I know, no Japanese developer has ever claimed, acted or tried to pass off their product was a western one no matter how many times they made it clear that it was stated that they specifically made it for western audiences.
Not specifically, but with a stronger emphasis on drawing in the Western market. And I already detailed all of the Western/American elements that have been present in the Resident Evil series for years, so I'm not retreading that road again. Hell, if you go over to Amazon Japan or old issues of Famitsu, you'll find Japanese gamers who reviewed RE4, 5 and 6 positively because they felt that the games were very akin to Western entertainment, more specifically American action movies, in tone and style.

Morihashi Bingo wasn't involved and none of the script writers have any Capcom credits that I can find.
The show was produced by the anime studio Madhouse and was directed by Shin Itagaki. Bingo Morihashi, one of the writers for the second, third and fourth games, was also on the writing staff.

Look harder.

They can like it all they want, who am I to tell them what to do with their money? But the show was underwhelming and I can't think of any examples where it was like the games.
Dude, you're preaching to the choir. I absolutely hate the DMC anime to pieces, but that doesn't change how many people liked the anime because of how the overly anime-esque nature of Dante and the other characters, and the over-the-top action scenes from the games translated to the anime medium. Many people even call it a perfect transition.

Which, given how painfully anime-esque DMC3 was, I can't really fault them for that assessment.


Japanese inspired, yes, but not anime. Track down a 2000 Japanese film called Versus, or Aragami from 2003 and you'll see the how correlations between DMC3 and the Japanese action b-movie genre are far clore than that of any anime. Specially versus since it was the project Yuji Shimomura worked on right before he did DMC3.
Tokusatsu, Japanese B-movies, Henshin Hero shows, and anime all share a number of the same narrative styles, action motifs, and stylistic approach to they approach the story. Shows like Super Sentai and Garo are practically live-action anime. Besides, half of the weapons and enemies in DMC3 and DMC4 have anime ties. For Christ's sake, Itsuno even claimed that the entire reason Pandora is in the game was because he wanted weapons that transformed into even bigger weapons, in the style of the anime Macross. Reuben Langdon said that his version of Dante in DMC4 was based off the exaggerated mannerisms of Roy Focker from that same Macross anime. And that's to say nothing of Dante and Vergil's rivalry in DMC3, which reeks of so many adverserial confrontations from numerous shows like Trigun, Ruroni Kenshin, Dragonball, Bleach, and a whole host of others that boil down to simply "a bitter past, and wearing opposite clothing and hairstyles." It's the most generic shonen anime motif in existence.

I know you're really, really bent on this "DMC HAD NO MAJOR ANIME INFLUENCES" narrative, but you'll find few in the fanbase, or in Capcom's development staff, who'll come close to agreeing with you.
 

berto

I Saw the Devil
Staff member
Messages
7,336
Likes
6,686
Points
11,925
I meant that it would be returning to its roots as a Japanese game with a larger emphasis on Western influences than Japanese ones, more specifically, anime.
Right... I didn't get that impression from that statement.

Not my fault you don't talk to more fans. Otherwise, you'd probably find out firsthand.
I am a long standing member of the DMC.org fan forum, I post in every DMC thread in 4chan when I get a chance, I was also an established member of the DMC section of IGN and I was well known in Devil's Lair forum and you are claiming that I don't talk to DMC fans. What are we then? Does none of that statement strike you as odd or just jabby for the sake of it? Because if it's true then who in the hell have I been talking to all these years?

Also, I was also being facetious, as I'm sure you can tell. I wasn't asking you if I may debate, or what you seem to consider the authority of the fandom for their permission. I am debating and I will continue to do so as it is my right as much as it is yours.

Not the same, but similar. I can't tell you how many people I know who were completely foreign to video games but loved anime like DragonBall, and ended up picking up DMC3 after seeing the DBZ-style fights showcased in the trailers and cutscenes. It's the same reason a wealth of people really got into FF7 back in the 90's: they recognize familiar elements in the presentation, choreography, style and characters from anime they enjoyed, and were thus drawn to it as a product,
DragonBall is mostly flying battles with balls of energy and calling out the name of the attack with one single character that owns a sword and uses it less than .001% of the show's length, DMC is very much swords, guns and demons that look nothing like a Toriyama demon. if you know people that play DMC for its similarities to DragonBall, of all animes, then they must've not look very hard because as long as there's been Dragon Ball there has been Dragon Ball games, and seeing how no one would confuse Dragon Ball FighterZ or Xenoverse for DMC I find their tastes and reasoning suspect.

Yeah. I'm sure the frinetic, overly-choreographed fight scenes and numerous demons aren't at all compared to Bleach either. I'm sure that it's just the voice actors.
Again, I don't know anyone who could confuse a fight in DMC with one in Bleach.

Not specifically, but with a stronger emphasis on drawing in the Western market. And I already detailed all of the Western/American elements that have been present in the Resident Evil series for years, so I'm not retreading that road again. Hell, if you go over to Amazon Japan or old issues of Famitsu, you'll find Japanese gamers who reviewed RE4, 5 and 6 positively because they felt that the games were very akin to Western entertainment, more specifically American action movies, in tone and style.
The issue was that the idea that Resident Evil was an obviously Japanese game made you laugh. That them being heavily geared at a western audience made it so it wasn't obvious that they were made in Japan. I'll respond as I did back then, if you put the controller in someone's hand they won't mistake the any of those games as being made by an american developer.

Oh, I did. And it took me forever to find something more concrete than wikipedia, which provided no source. The man is not credited for it almost anywhere, not even his or the show's IMDB.
On the bright side, I refuse to let something like a debate get in the way of the truth. I found the website for the show, which is still running, strangely enough, and sure enough there he is. 森橋 ビンゴ under staff. So, yes, I was wrong about that. But it still doesn't change my position on it. Dante is bored, sleepy and charmless in that show, and as a side effect, boring. In the games he's active, energetic, eager. I don't care if it's the same writer, the show is not in the spirit of the game, in more than just character.

but that doesn't change how many people liked the anime because of how the overly anime-esque nature of Dante and the other characters, and the over-the-top action scenes from the games translated to the anime medium.
If that's true then I am concerned about people's ability to tell things are different different just because of the same outfit. Over the top is not how I would describe the anime.

Many people even call it a perfect transition.
Really? Because here's a recap of every episode. Dante gets job, Dante does trivial stuff to find demon, demon shows itself, Dante attacks, cutaway to save on animation, then on the next shot Dante's already won, along the way Dante gets s*** on, nags or sleeps. We're lucky if any fight lasts as long as a minute. The cat fight was the longest one in the show! I don't remember any of that being how the games went. The fight with Vergil on top of the tower, Dante pulls out his gun 'so you want a piece of me, literally. Well come and get it,' pulls trigger, cut away to a distant shot with sound of one round fired and on the very next shot Dante is impaled to the ground. Truly, one of the most iconic fights in the francise.

Which, given how painfully anime-esque DMC3 was, I can't really fault them for that assessment.
Painful and silly, yeah, acquired taste, not really for everyone. Still not an anime.

Tokusatsu, Japanese B-movies, Henshin Hero shows, and anime all share a number of the same narrative styles, action motifs, and stylistic approach to they approach the story.
Yeah, but they're not interchangeable. Japanese stage productions have the same cultural foundations, archetypes, speech patterns, and levels of cringe but they don't qualify as stage anime for it. Even in that regard, think about any of those power ranger type show and how and how their action scenes go. I've never seen an anime where all five color coded heroes have small pyrotechnics go off in front of them and they all jump back in an exaggerated manner and fall down a few centimeters back or ran around doing acrobatics just for show off of it. It's silly, yes, but it only works with actors because in animation things would look very different, if a set up like that existed, at all. The action is so ludicrous already so how come there are no anime sentai shows? Why are they only referenced in anime? Within the boundaries of what it can't do because it's not animated they created their own style and motifs, their own way of doing things that don't exist in anime and vice versa. Sailor Moon didn't work as live action, Sentai shows wouldn't work as anime. If you did the same scene in both mediums they'd look nothing alike unless they were intentionally copying the style.

Shows like Super Sentai and Garo are practically live-action anime.
Yeah, and comic book movies are practically comic books, but they're not, are they? Exaggerated proportions, dramatic poses every page, overly dramatic facial expressions and entire paragraphs spoken in the length of a single punch wouldn't work on film and equally the presentation of a film wouldn't work on panel. Both would have to be changed to accommodate how the other medium works. Same here.

Besides, half of the weapons and enemies in DMC3 and DMC4 have anime ties. For Christ's sake, Itsuno even claimed that the entire reason Pandora is in the game was because he wanted weapons that transformed into even bigger weapons, in the style of the anime Macross. Reuben Langdon said that his version of Dante in DMC4 was based off the exaggerated mannerisms of Roy Focker from that same Macross anime.
Yeah, we've established that they have anime influences. So did the Matrix, Black Swan, Looper and Inception. Them anime?

And that's to say nothing of Dante and Vergil's rivalry in DMC3, which reeks of so many adverserial confrontations from numerous shows like Trigun, Ruroni Kenshin, Dragonball, Bleach, and a whole host of others that boil down to simply "a bitter past, and wearing opposite clothing and hairstyles." It's the most generic shonen anime motif in existence.
None of that is an anime exclusive concept, though. Sabertooth vs Wolverine, Spy vs Spy, Sherlock vs Moriarty, Dracula vs van Helsing, Batman vs the Joker, Tom vs Jerry. Rivalry is nothing new to anyone. Not even color coded ones.

I know you're really, really bent on this "DMC HAD NO MAJOR ANIME INFLUENCES"
I don't recall ever saying that. In fact, I was the one who posted the fact that Dante was heavily influenced by a character named Cobra here years ago and I mentioned it again just a few posts ago, and that Shinji Mikami continued to reference that title in his proceeding works, all the way to Vanquish so it's not just DMC4 and I've never denied it.

What I've been saying is that the heavy Japanese tones of the games isn't anime, that there are other medias in Japan that they are closer to those all around than to anime. DMC1 is like other Shinji Mikami games, like RE1/REmake, RE2, and Dino Crisis, none of which remind anyone of Gundam or Dragonball. DMC3 is reminiscent of the Japanese B films of Ryuhei Kitamura and Yuji Shimomura and DMC4, tragically, reminds me more of Sengoku Basara than it does to anime in general. It doesn't matter, though, because once you started to claim something as outlandish as claiming that DragonBall and DMC's fights look the same I realized that this will lead nowhere.

As far as I'm concerned this back and forth has derailed the topic long enough. I've said what I had to, you know where I stand and I you. If you want to respond, you are, of course, welcome to it, but for me this debate will lead nowhere.
 
Last edited:

wallenb

Humanoid Typhoon
Messages
2,373
Likes
1,028
Points
3,725
My first reaction was how friggin good it looks and I hope it's not all the same stuff from dmc4 just wrapped up pretty. I also saw invisible walls.... No taunts.... And not a single full hack combo... But I'm still over excited. I just hope I don't have to defend another DMC game because more importantly than anything is we are STILL getting DMC games after 15 years!
 

Maxman

Well-Known Member
Messages
665
Likes
674
Points
1,615
Was pretty surprised by the aesthetic change but i guess they do what they gotta do to appeal to wider base but i like it i wonder how they will explain it in game though.
 

SwordofSparda

Active Member
Messages
9
Likes
12
Points
35
Most people first was shoked because they think Nero was DmC Dante or even Dante. For me it was so clear that it was Nero. Not because of the leaks. I just feel it. The only thing I didnt like was. Oh he uses Red Queen again. Seriously? No new weapon for him? The arm is cool but really no new sword?
 
Top