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Why Metal gear Rising can't possibly be DMC5 (Or in place for DmC)

CheeseKao

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I said to a minimum that I liked for gods sake! This is all my opinion!
I hate the amount of QTEs in God of War which you have to use QTEs basically every mini boss and every main boss.
Plus MGR's QTEs are combined with blade mode moments which I actually liked, so the QTE moments in MGR did not annoy me as much as GOWs QTEs do.
I was talking about your claims on the frequency of QTEs. Whether or not you like them is irrelevant.
 

TWOxACROSS

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It is Metal Gear 3 making it a sequel. Look it up if you have to but Metal Gear Solid the third canonical release in the series. It is NOT a spinoff.

It's not Metal Gear 3...because it's not called "Metal Gear 3"...the nomenclature established from the very beginning tells us something completely different. Metal Gear Solid isn't Metal Gear 3 because it's "MGS1," the first in a new series, the same as Ghost Babel is. Plus, Metal Gear Solid actually starts its very own numbered series which does not include Metal Gear or Metal Gear 2 in its established nomenclature.

Metal Gear Solid really is a spin-off series by definition, it just does a great job of continuing from where Metal Gear 2 left off. As does Ghost Babel, for how far it went.
 

Meg

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As someone who wants to play Metal Gear Rising, I'll say this: it looks so ridiculous it's kinda awesome. That's the thing. Sometimes you just need to play an over the top action game. Even if it's not that deep compared to other games. However, while I played the demo for DmC, but not for Rising, I just don't see it. Why do these two games keep getting compared? They are both over the top action games, but....but....AGH! Sorry. >.<

Sharing a genre doesn't make the two the same. Or even THAT similar. It boggles my mind how people keep trying to say that Rising is the true DMC5 or something. Now do I like DmC? No. It doesn't appeal to me. But Rising is even further from DMC from a combat standpoint.

Sorry, I didn't even read the thread. I just saw the title and thought "yes." Just yes. And then I felt the need to thought dump. Because.

*leaves thread*
 

Rayl

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I know i've posted this once before but i think it merits repeating, MGR is, if anything, more like this game:

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It may not seem it but it sort of feels that way to me, it could be the cheesyness of it all or it could be the fact that both main characters feel very OP to play as but regardless i feel this is a better comparison.
 

Chancey289

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It's not Metal Gear 3...because it's not called "Metal Gear 3"...the nomenclature established from the very beginning tells us something completely different. Metal Gear Solid isn't Metal Gear 3 because it's "MGS1," the first in a new series, the same as Ghost Babel is. Plus, Metal Gear Solid actually starts its very own numbered series which does not include Metal Gear or Metal Gear 2 in its established nomenclature.

Metal Gear Solid really is a spin-off series by definition, it just does a great job of continuing from where Metal Gear 2 left off. As does Ghost Babel, for how far it went.
Oh my god. Metal Gear Solid is considered a sequel

If anything, I consider Metal Gear Solid as a reboot of the Metal Gear franchise while also still being a sequel. Similar to something like what Tron: Legacy did. It was a rebooted Tron while being a sequel to the film that came out a long time ago.
 

TWOxACROSS

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That...makes absolutely no sense. Something can't be both a reboot and a sequel. A reboot means to start over...how can you make a sequel to a series that starts the series over...? At least not without some bullshit time travel shenanigans like Star Trek did :/

And Ghost Babel is considered a sequel too...they're both spinoffs of the original Metal Gear series. Even Rising could be considered a sequel to MGS4 because it picks up where MGS4 left off, just like Ghost Babel and MGS pick up where the original MSX series left off.
 

nightrunner_ks

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MGR is DMC's successor to me because MGR had everything I wanted from DMC that DmC failed to deliver.

Aside from the fact that MGR:
  • Has a story which completely destroys MGS4's well crafted and intricate storyline
  • Contain's uninspired bosses which are basically the Beasts from MGS4
  • Portrays Raiden as a psychotic ninja when Kojima originally wanted him to be a stealth hunter who used stealth more than brute force
  • Portrays Raiden as "Jack the Ripper" only to be edgy and "original," when he was supposed to give up fighting
  • Has little no actual combo tech ie. fighting game mechanics
  • Has frequent frame rate drops during blade mode
  • Has Boss Battle QTEs
Yeah, MGR is totally DMC's successor
/platinumdrone
 

Dominus

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Aside from the fact that MGR:Has a story which completely destroys MGS4's well crafted and intricate storyline
Yah no... ......................................... ........... .........
Contain's uninspired bosses which are basically the Beasts from MGS4
I don't know about you but I haven't seen many bosses that are held together by magnetic forces, or grab you with an staff made out of robotic arms.
Portrays Raiden as a psychotic ninja when Kojima originally wanted him to be a stealth hunter who used stealth more than brute force
Raiden stopped a humungous freight ship with just his legs and cut through enemies in cutscenes like butter, but yah lets go sneak around and kill enemies..
Portrays Raiden as "Jack the Ripper" only to be edgy and "original," when he was supposed to give up fighting
His Ripper personality does get old, but it makes sense that someone with only military and fighting training that Raiden would work as a PMC contractor. What other skills does he really have then kill kill kill? Its like that Mega 64 skit where Raiden is at an employment agency. The stuff after the whole PMC mission gone wrong stuff gets out of whack (in terms of revenge) but I found the beginning pretty believable for Raiden's character. Even the ripper thing can be loosely explained by PTSD which no games really seem to tackle in regards to a soldier's life.. but that could be seen as a streetch..
Has little no actual combo tech ie. fighting game mechanics
Did you play the game? Combat is more close to NG where the combat is focused more so on taking out enemies quick than comboing them.
Has Boss Battle QTEs
DmC also had hidden QTEs, but I will say this game does have a good amount of QTEs.
 

Chancey289

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That...makes absolutely no sense. Something can't be both a reboot and a sequel. A reboot means to start over...how can you make a sequel to a series that starts the series over...? At least not without some bullshit time travel shenanigans like Star Trek did :/

And Ghost Babel is considered a sequel too...they're both spinoffs of the original Metal Gear series. Even Rising could be considered a sequel to MGS4 because it picks up where MGS4 left off, just like Ghost Babel and MGS pick up where the original MSX series left off.
Reboot doesn't always have to mean starting over. An exception can be made when rebooting something would be doing something like Metal Gear Solid did. Not only is it considered a sequel that directly continues the canonical story of Solid Snake here it reinvents Metal Gear from the ground up for the Playstation system. Quit being so black and white about the concept. Like when I heard people complaining about a Resident Evil reboot (which it desperately needs) thinking they would start all over again where if you ask me, I wouldn't care which direction it takes as long as it fixes RE but, Resident Evil 7 could show up and be a reboot in it's own right if the game completely overhauls itself gameplay and design wise.

You can still continue the RE plot a while completely rebooting the formula and therein lies the gray area. Tron Legacy is one of the better examples of what I'm saying. Legacy not only totally rebooted the Tron universe to a more updated look and plot but also managed to be an actual sequel to the original film as well. You don't have to understand a thing about Tron to watch and get Legacy which turns it into a fresh take on the series and being the official sequel.

Now look at something like DC's New 52 which also is not entirely starting over with the idea of rebooting their franchises making New 52 a "soft reboot" so to speak and still a continuation of the DC universe to an extent. The New 52 actually still conserves quite a lot of DC's already established history so this is also a very good example of how reboots don't always have to be a harsh, drastic reinvention.

The concept of rebooting something doesn't always have to lie with restarting over and over again which is why DC is looking rather stupid feeling the need to retell the Batman story again because Dark Knight was stand alone. They need a Batman who links with the DC universe as a whole. DC does NOT have to retell Batman to do this. They don't need to make another Batman movie retelling his origin and all that crap to create a new Batman. Everyone knows who Batman is now. They just need to throw him in the Justice League. DC is really stupid feeling the need to try and keep up with Marvel acting like they need to plan ahead for a JLA film where you know what, all they need to do is put Batman and Superman in the same room and BAM the whole world is watching. They can establish a Justice League without rebooting anything and if you ask me the best option is to make a Justice League film that has all these heroes established already and actually jump off from the Justice League film making solo features using the versions that were established there.

I believe now I'm getting a little off topic but do you see what I mean when there is a gray area that lies in the concept of reboot? Sequels can substitute for reboots just as well. Evil Dead 2 is actually sometimes considered technically a remake of the first film to an extent because of how it took the same basic premise and re-does it to make it a completely different genre from it's predecessor which was just straight up horror. Now the upcoming remake is considered a remake in a more traditional sense yes but it doesn't change the fact that when it comes to franchises the concept of sequels, remakes, and spinoffs are never just black and white.
 

TWOxACROSS

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Reboot literally means to "start over" or "restart" something. I'm being black and white because the definitions of words are. Concepts of sequels, remakes, and spinoffs that other people have are wrong, because there's a reason why each of those damn words exist - to differentiate what something is by its definition.

The written word is butchered as it is by this generation's vernacular, but I can't abide by people just going "wull, it means this now, too" because that is just utterly imbecilic. Learn the definitions of words if you're going to describe sh!t, it's not that hard! If something restarts something it's a reboot. Reboot cannot mean anything more than starting over, because otherwise it loses all of its meaning :/

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DragonMaster2010

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I love how people are so quick to defend raiden's crazy persona...but Dante's personality in DmC is a "damnation" to how people want him to act.:/
 

TWOxACROSS

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I love how people are so quick to defend raiden's crazy persona...but Dante's personality in DmC is a "damnation" to how people want him to act.:/

To be fair, Raiden's "ripper" personality was something established by his backstory that he struggled with for quite a while, and since MGR is an extension of that existing character and his past, it's a bit more acceptable to some than Dante's personality being warped because of the more downtrodden life he lived and the punishment he received through out his life.

What DmC used for Dante's personality is a concept that I've agreed with for a while now. Even in different universes, there is you, but a you who has lived a very different life that shapes them into someone else. Experiences are what shape us, and DmC Dante had quite a few bad ones, plenty more than classic Dante had.
 

Chancey289

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Reboot literally means to "start over" or "restart" something. I'm being black and white because the definitions of words are. Concepts of sequels, remakes, and spinoffs that other people have are wrong, because there's a reason why each of those damn words exist - to differentiate what something is by its definition.

The written word is butchered as it is by this generation's vernacular, but I can't abide by people just going "wull, it means this now, too" because that is just utterly imbecilic. Learn the definitions of words if you're going to describe sh!t, it's not that hard! If something restarts something it's a reboot. Reboot cannot mean anything more than starting over, because otherwise it loses all of its meaning :/

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I know what the words mean. If you really want to get all anal over this then it doesn't make me wrong when spin-off is also considered a variety of sequel and in the end ultimately pretty much makes it a sequel. I gave examples to the point I'm trying to make. Not to mention Hideo Kojima himself considers Solid to be the direct sequel the Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake but, I just don't f*cking care anymore. Call it whatever you want.
 

DragonMaster2010

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To be fair, Raiden's "ripper" personality was something established by his backstory that he struggled with for quite a while, and since MGR is an extension of that existing character and his past, it's a bit more acceptable to some than Dante's personality being warped because of the more downtrodden life he lived and the punishment he received through out his life.

What DmC used for Dante's personality is a concept that I've agreed with for a while now. Even in different universes, there is you, but a you who has lived a very different life that shapes them into someone else. Experiences are what shape us, and DmC Dante had quite a few bad ones, plenty more than classic Dante had.

But you'd think by the neighborhood Dante's lived in and the fact he's been with Enzo, he'd be raised and act just like that of new Dante's persona. I can't help but feel that.
 

TWOxACROSS

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But you'd think by the neighborhood Dante's lived in and the fact he's been with Enzo, he'd be raised and act just like that of new Dante's persona. I can't help but feel that.

Well that really depends, because classic Dante knew what he was and he didn't have this displaced aggression. For the most part it seems Dante's life up until DMC3 was pretty okay, and he decided to get serious about getting revenge on the demons who ruined his family, and save the world from them in the process. Compare that to DmC Dante who's origin was hidden from him, and he was hunted down relentlessly. As it was said (and I agree with) Dante has this hedonistic, don't give no sh!ts attitude because he feels it's only a matter of time until the demons get the better of him. Not until he finds out who he is, and the true state of the world does Dante toss away that "raw" attitude and take up a more active position in caring for humanity.

DmC Dante's life seems to have a lot more frustration to it.
 

Mister Z

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This point has probably been made already, but frankly, the only people who were promoting MGR as "the true DMC5" so fervously were the passionate anti-DmC crowd who just couldn't keep their outrage on check so they seemingly needed a game they could use to antagonize on the game. So they found MGR, a game they most likely never had any real interest on for what it was, but when they realized it was set to compete against DmC they supported it so passionately, along the way projecting their own wishful thinkings on the game, not to show "how much we like this game", but to show "how much we hate this other game".

If you ask me, scrutinizing every DmC supporter as a stupid, ignorant NT/Capcom/Temeem humper is just as bad as hating a MGR supporter as a hateful, elitist Platinum/Kamiya worshipper. Lots of people from both sides had irrational, dumb reasons for supporting what they supported and were equally bad at not being childish and picking up fights against people from the other band. Just like that, however, both sides had people with sensible, understandable reasons for deciding which game they wanted to support. Heck, and that's not even accounting for all the people who supported both nor those who didn't like either.

Point is, people keep making the same mistake: generalizing an entire side of an arguement and all of the people behind it, instead of discriminating particular cases between reasonable people with good reasons for their choice and unreasonable people who act passionately and don't even really know why they made their choice to begin with.

As for MGR, I'm fairly sure the kind of people who looked forward it mostly included:

a) Hack and slash fans who just didn't like DmC and chose MGR merely as an alternative to satisfy their wish for a good game of the genre
b) Hack and slash fans who did like DmC but also saw MGR as a good addition for their collection of games of the genre
c) Hack and slash fans who never cared less about DmC and simply looked forward to MGR for being a good entry to the genre
d) Fans of MGS who were intrigued by a new game of the series, but with different gameplay and focus on the story (a spin-off)
e) Gamers in general who saw the game announced, read about it, watched it and decided they wanted it, without having anything to do with the DmC issue.

And probably many other kind of people, but you get the idea.
 

Chancey289

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Well that really depends, because classic Dante knew what he was and he didn't have this displaced aggression. For the most part it seems Dante's life up until DMC3 was pretty okay, and he decided to get serious about getting revenge on the demons who ruined his family, and save the world from them in the process. Compare that to DmC Dante who's origin was hidden from him, and he was hunted down relentlessly. As it was said (and I agree with) Dante has this hedonistic, don't give no sh!ts attitude because he feels it's only a matter of time until the demons get the better of him. Not until he finds out who he is, and the true state of the world does Dante toss away that "raw" attitude and take up a more active position in caring for humanity.

DmC Dante's life seems to have a lot more frustration to it.
The previous Dante was a cartoon stereotype. No one in their right mind would ever truly act like Dante and I don't even buy how stupid he got in DMC 3. Even if he was younger. He's 19. Why does he act so much like just a 12 year old who watched a bunch of corny action flicks before the game starts. It was just more annoying than anything. My favorite version of Dante is the very first version because I got the sense he was cocky and a little cheesy but also he was more subtle about it. Good enough because he never got on my nerves.

DmC Dante however, considering on his upbringing and the overall intention of DmC's more contemporary feel, I can buy it and it makes sense. Dante had it very rough and doesn't understand the events that unfold around him and when it happens so much he got to the point where he was just fed up. Drop all priorities. He's alone so you can't really blame the guy for not developing any emotional attachments to anyone (but he does desire it) and stuff like going party and getting laid was him just dealing with how sh!tty his life is. A life he has yet to understand because of the memory wipe. It's all rather natural. When he meets his brother he gets context of the situation and we have Dante on the path of becoming the hero he's pretty much destined to be.

Dante was about as deep as a kiddie pool though and people give him way too much credit. He was never the golden boy people think he is. DmC still preserves what makes Dante Dante. Cocky, spouts occasional one liners, a little brash, and with a sense of justice. That's Dante. There's not much to him. DmC's Dante is virtually what makes Dante Dante but instead of being a cartoon character he's more believable. Which was the intention all along. I like this comparison, DMC Dante is like Earth 616 Spider-Man and DmC Dante is Ultimate Spider-Man.
 

Chancey289

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This point has probably been made already, but frankly, the only people who were promoting MGR as "the true DMC5" so fervously were the passionate anti-DmC crowd who just couldn't keep their outrage on check so they seemingly needed a game they could use to antagonize on the game. So they found MGR, a game they most likely never had any real interest on for what it was, but when they realized it was set to compete against DmC they supported it so passionately, along the way projecting their own wishful thinkings on the game, not to show "how much we like this game", but to show "how much we hate this other game".

If you ask me, scrutinizing every DmC supporter as a stupid, ignorant NT/Capcom/Temeem humper is just as bad as hating a MGR supporter as a hateful, elitist Platinum/Kamiya worshipper. Lots of people from both sides had irrational, dumb reasons for supporting what they supported and were equally bad at not being childish and picking up fights against people from the other band. Just like that, however, both sides had people with sensible, understandable reasons for deciding which game they wanted to support. Heck, and that's not even accounting for all the people who supported both nor those who didn't like either.

Point is, people keep making the same mistake: generalizing an entire side of an arguement and all of the people behind it, instead of discriminating particular cases between reasonable people with good reasons for their choice and unreasonable people who act passionately and don't even really know why they made their choice to begin with.

As for MGR, I'm fairly sure the kind of people who looked forward it mostly included:

a) Hack and slash fans who just didn't like DmC and chose MGR merely as an alternative to satisfy their wish for a good game of the genre
b) Hack and slash fans who did like DmC but also saw MGR as a good addition for their collection of games of the genre
c) Hack and slash fans who never cared less about DmC and simply looked forward to MGR for being a good entry to the genre
d) Fans of MGS who were intrigued by a new game of the series, but with different gameplay and focus on the story (a spin-off)
e) Gamers in general who saw the game announced, read about it, watched it and decided they wanted it, without having anything to do with the DmC issue.

And probably many other kind of people, but you get the idea.
And like DmC isn't a good entry into the genre. I don't give a sh!t if P*'s name is attached because P* kind of sucks. They never push out anything beyond the decent mark. Always coming up middle of the road and settling for the lowest common denominator in different aspects of their games. Good but never great. Quite frankly, Metal Gear fans have better reason to be upset with Rising more so than Devil May Cry fans with the reboot.

Metal Gear fans didn't file a petition to the White House or make a massive deal about something as trivial as a haircut. Don't even defend them. Devil May Cry is now holding one of the worst gaming fandoms out there. Good going guys.

P* doesn't get Metal Gear and the Cyborg Ninja game should have been better. Despite it starring the character that nobody likes, it still should have been better. I'm not a fan of Bayonetta but Rising's overall combat is not as deep as Bayonetta and it has a rather simple formula to success. And the Metal Gear charm in deliverance is lost. It's like P* took a peek into the Metal Gear door and just made a game from what they saw through a narrow crack in the door.

The "style over substance" is a theme that is carried through out every aspect of this game. I've recently started replaying Ninja Gaiden and Shinobi and I'm having more fun with those hack n slashers than I did with Rising. It's not even just my hatred of Raiden, it's how I expected the Cyborg Ninja game to be that Metal Gear Awesome Cyborg Ninja game. What I got was P*'s bullcrap on my Metal Gear not giving me the Metal Gear Awesome Cyborg Ninja game. Before you start saying I'm bias just because of my hatred of Raiden, I'll have you know I was actually hyped for Rising when it first appeared even though I KNEW it was going to be a Raiden centric game. And that's saying something because my hatred for Raiden burns with a fiery passion and runs very deep.
 

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But you'd think by the neighborhood Dante's lived in and the fact he's been with Enzo, he'd be raised and act just like that of new Dante's persona. I can't help but feel that.
To be far, you do lack context for Dante's life after his mom died and before DMC3 begins with no idea how he got there so his backstory could be anythng.
 

HatredIsJoy

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Aside from the fact that MGR:
  • Contain's uninspired bosses which are basically the Beasts from MGS4
  • Portrays Raiden as a psychotic ninja when Kojima originally wanted him to be a stealth hunter who used stealth more than brute force
  • Portrays Raiden as "Jack the Ripper" only to be edgy and "original," when he was supposed to give up fighting
  • Has little no actual combo tech ie. fighting game mechanics

So we are already at the point when you people stoop low enough to just outright lie. 'tis cool, 'tis cool.

Oh, and thanks for the laugh. "MGS4's well crafted and intricate storyline" is pretty funny. And I say it as someone who liked MGS4.


I love how people are so quick to defend raiden's crazy persona...but Dante's personality in DmC is a "damnation" to how people want him to act.:/
I, too, am shocked by people paying attention to context and execution.
 
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