Why doesn't DmC's story make any sense? [Spoilers within]

meg5493

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in the original series demons were able to be dealt with by normal human weapons fairly easily
Not every human could you had to pretty much be a demon hunter to actually stand a chance against them or else you'd get slaughtered
 

Drake

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Also in the old series the only human hunter only shown in the games was Lady
 

TheNoHeartedBeing

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I dont think the demons are going to kill anyone. When the hell gate was sealed and the demons were revealed they didnt do anything. They were looking around like "wth" they look more surprised than the humans. The Demons were not there to destroy humans but to control them. Just like Mundus said. He was controlling the humans by debt. There was no need for the demons to kill anyone. The only person they were supposed to kill was Dante.
 

Loopy

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I dont think the demons are going to kill anyone. When the hell gate was sealed and the demons were revealed they didnt do anything. They were looking around like "wth" they look more surprised than the humans. The Demons were not there to destroy humans but to control them. Just like Mundus said. He was controlling the humans by debt. There was no need for the demons to kill anyone. The only person they were supposed to kill was Dante.
So I wonder which side will attack first? Maybe no attacking at all?
The humans were more interested in taking pictures and posting them on their twitter accounts.:laugh:
 

darkmanifest

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Kinda like this.
Oh, I forgot about that scene. I guess head injuries from normal firearms are fatal to demons in this universe, where previously it amounted to a tickle. Maybe that's why demons stay undercover despite being superior to us in most ways? Humans are sheep, but we're incredibly psycho sheep with huge numbers who like to nuke things when we're unhappy. Take away our drugs (Virility) and our television (Raptor News) and then show us that demons are literally everywhere, and...wow, that's sure gonna escalate quickly.
 

Loopy

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Oh, I forgot about that scene. I guess head injuries from normal firearms are fatal to demons in this universe, where previously it amounted to a tickle. Maybe that's why demons stay undercover despite being superior to us in most ways? Humans are sheep, but we're incredibly psycho sheep with huge numbers who like to nuke things when we're unhappy. Take away our drugs (Virility) and our television (Raptor News) and then show us that demons are literally everywhere, and...wow, that's sure gonna escalate quickly.
Brains blown out= death. Makes sense. :laugh: So, totally violent human revolution it is then. Demons, we are on to you. We do not forgive. We do not forget. Expect us. We are coming. :P
Wake the humans up and they'll be beating demons over the head with whatever they can find.....after taking pictures and putting them on twitter like this:

Guy1: Dude, I just saw a demon. Then I caved its head in.
Guy2: That is so random! LOL, WTF.
 

EvilX-81

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Oh, I forgot about that scene. I guess head injuries from normal firearms are fatal to demons in this universe, where previously it amounted to a tickle. Maybe that's why demons stay undercover despite being superior to us in most ways? Humans are sheep, but we're incredibly psycho sheep with huge numbers who like to nuke things when we're unhappy. Take away our drugs (Virility) and our television (Raptor News) and then show us that demons are literally everywhere, and...wow, that's sure gonna escalate quickly.
Basically what I was thinking; eliminate the chaos and annoyance that comes with knowledge. We know about something that's blatantly life-threatening, someone or a lot of someone's are eventually going to start fighting back.
 

Adel

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in the original series demons were able to be dealt with by normal human weapons fairly easily
But in the dmc 2001 the humans developed their weapons while being free, in dmc 2013 they developed their weapons with mundus on their back...So mundus could have easily made the humans unable to develop weapons that would make them able to fight back or even slave them before they have the chance to develop any weapons...

Anyway I lost hope with capcom, every star they had left the boat Shinji Mikami (creator of resident evil), Hideki Kamiya (creator of devil may cry), Keiji Inafune (creator of mega man)...I feel like the only good director they have left are Kenji Oguro and Hideaki Itsuno (at least for non fighting games). The capcom I loved is gone. They will continue to whore their license for foreigner teenager


(this is me every time I think about capcom)
 

Shin Muramasa

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I dont think the demons are going to kill anyone. When the hell gate was sealed and the demons were revealed they didnt do anything. They were looking around like "wth" they look more surprised than the humans. The Demons were not there to destroy humans but to control them. Just like Mundus said. He was controlling the humans by debt. There was no need for the demons to kill anyone. The only person they were supposed to kill was Dante.
I remember that scene where all the demons were not disguised anymore. It was more humorous than anything. The two demons looking at the pole dancer were probably like: "Damn it! And she was gettin' to the good part!"
 

TheNoHeartedBeing

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I remember that scene where all the demons were not disguised anymore. It was more humorous than anything. The two demons looking at the pole dancer were probably like: "Damn it! And she was gettin' to the good part!"
lol. I just now noticed they were staring down the stripper lol. Kinky demons.
 

TWOxACROSS

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I dunno...there's a lot of these questions that really seem born from not paying attention...some of it is stuff that was explained in-game, while others in all the interviews and everything else the devs talked about before the game. But some of it really just seems like saying it doesn't make sense because you already think it sucks.
 

DragonMaster2010

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Time to be a asshole and counter everything you say~:cool:

This post is incredibly long and spoiler filled and I apologize for its length but I'm not even touching up on all the holes within this game's narrative because it's so sloppily strung together.

I've been thinking and I've really been perplexed at how little sense DmC's story actually makes. So much things are just left unexplained or are just devoid of logic.

Like the original series.

I mean let's start out with Limbo. Nothing about it makes any sense.

proceed.

They give such a little explanation about how Limbo works in any way It really leaves me dumbfounded. The opening cut scene establishes that things that happen in Limbo influence physical objects in the human world. Dante's trailer is completely trashed as is the amusement park. However later in the game this is completely contradicted by characters in Limbo being unable to interact with real things. For example Vergil is unable to type in the self-destruct codes to his computer and has to guide Kat through it instead.

That's because Mundus is in control of Limbo and there fore didn't know who Vergil was or that he was Nephilim. Limbo has only been bringing in Dante. Vergil couldn't activate it because people in Limbo can't active real things. The reason Vergil was in Limbo now was because of that one instant that Vergil was targeted because of him working with Dante, and him using magic to craft that shield, which just screamed "possible magic possessor".

Apparently Kat can't be touched by Dante or interact with him when he's in Limbo and she's not as evidenced by the scene where she's taken and he attempts to grab her only to have her hand fade through his , but if he shoots her apparently she'll die according to her. So how does this Limbo non Limbo interaction even work?

Because Kat is "one foot in, one foot out." Kat's a physic, and she only can put half of her body into Limbo. But that half of her being in Limbo is part of her life, and if that part gets stabbed or shot at, she'll die.

How does dragging Dante into Limbo even work? Can the demons do this whenever they want or what? They never explain this, and nor do they explain Limbo itself. Apparently its a living city that can interact with Dante by making the ground spread apart and what not. But if this is the case why doesn't it just completely collapse its floor while Dante is standing on it? The narrative so vaguely explains how Limbo even functions.

Limbo has been calapsing floors and trying to crush him. Limbo is controlled by its malice which IMO is controlled by Mundus. Some demons like demon bosses can drag Dante into Limbo, and as we saw in the intro, Mundus has access to cameras as well thus he can activate them to point straight at Dante where Mundus can activate Limbo himself for that exact area.

How does getting out of Limbo work? I guess Hunter demons and cameras can do this? But if this is the case you'd think there would be camera everywhere, especially where one of their main factories of controlling the humans is. But Dante and Kat waltz into the factory and once in he's not dragged into Limbo at all until they're pretty deep in the factory. Considering how big of a deal they make out of the demons watching everything they're surprisingly not very watchful when it's not convenient to the plot. Even then there are points when there's no cameras or hunter demons that drag him into Limbo. It seems like being dragged into Limbo is just the plot deciding it needs an artificial way to ramp up tension.

cameras don't take Dante out of Limbo. They were trying to take them out so that the camera's won't watch over humans like animals. The hunter demon was in control of that part of town's malice and therefore, it vanished after the hunter's death since he was its controller. Some demons have the ability to drag Dante into Limbo themselves and other times, it's Mundus.

Dante's backstory and character don't even make sense especially considering how familiar he is with Limbo. At the start of the game they act as if Dante is so familiar with Limbo and the demons. He says it's because as a kid he was surrounded by them at an orphanage or something, even though the story is so vague about this and for some reason the backstory is spliced in with concept art they had lying around that doesn't really have anything to do with what's happening.

Of course he's familiar with Limbo. You even stated it; he was surrounded by demons in orphanage. The story has told about Dante's past through the concept arts, Bob Barbas fight, and narrative. I got Dante's back story pretty much figured out, compared to DMC3 Dante, who's back story was pretty vague except for the fact of his mother's death, but no explanation as to how he got rebellion, when he got it, and (apparently to you since the DMC1 novels aren't canon) how he got his guns.

But how did they even lose Dante? He isn't particularly subtle as his trailer sticks out like a sore thumb and I wouldn't expect a Dante in his early teens having the wisest ability to hide as the demons are supposedly "monitoring everything".

Probably because he was very careful in not letting himself be found. Finally he got bored of all the hiding around. If you count the comic books of DmC coming out *SPOILER ALERT* Dante had just busted out of a hell prison and has been on the run for a year. He thought he was in the clear, and was getting bored of sitting around. There probably wasn't any malice or Limbo at that amusement park until Dante went to the club and came back with two girls. The malice was probably tracking him all the way to his apartment, and thus the hunter demon followed the trail there, ala the beginning of the game.

For that matter, how does Vergil know any of what he tells Dante? His mind was wiped too and there's nobody to explain this to him with long exposition complete with hamfisted graffiti in the background that conveniently tells his story in images. Man, Vergil really must have put Kat to work doing all of that for no real reason.

If you played mission 2, he said that he learned of everything just like Dante did; by going to their house. As to how he entered Limbo is a mystery. Probably by Vergil's downfall, we'll know more.

Also, apparently the pairing between a human and angel was unthinkable and unheard of. But according to Phineas they were an entire race of statue people that don't share any common physiology with Dante or Vergil.

Just because there was a lot, doesn't mean it was uncommon. Mundus probably had them killed for years to come. And before you go to "Vergil said they were the only ones who existed as nephilim", Vergil also didn't know who Phinias was and therefore, didn't know about their being more then one Nephilim. And before you go to the "But why didn't Dante tell Vergil about them not being the only Nephilim" I personally wouldn't tell anyone this, especially Vergil' who already was attempting to leave Kat to die. That would make me suspicious of him, and make me not share this news with him until I know full well of his plans.

Also, what are angels exactly? The game brings them up and apparently they fought demons, but where are they? They clearly still exist, but they don't do anything but be sluts with wings except for Eva. I guess the fact that their weapons can't even damage demons and vice-versa lead to a real stand still.

Angels are seen in the concept art parts Dante's back story moments. Plus the same could be said for the movie Constantine. They talked about angels, but not many were seen in it. I think the angels still follow the rule of not interfering with the human world just like with the original series.

The universe of this game makes such little sense but what makes almost less sense are the characters. Vergil for example, he's painted as an intelligent and strategic guy. But he acts like a complete idiot. He never suggests Dante try to disguise himself while walking casually around the town sticking out like a sore thumb. ( I don't know too many people who walk around with Union Jacks on their arm in the U.S. ). Not to mention that Dante's face is apparently everywhere in the media as a terrorist but absolutely nobody recognizes him or freaks out when they see him. Why does Vergil even cover his face on TV if he's going to casually walk around with Dante unmasked? You know it's really not such a shock that the demons found his secret compound.

Vergil's blinded by his plan too much and doesn't really think about much but it. He's just as dumb as DMC3 Vergil. Both only care about power and nothing else. What would be the point of Dante disguising himself? He'd still be recognized one way or another since Mundus had demon collaborators to scope the streets. Plus demons have seen Dante for years so they could more then easily tell him out from a pack of humans in a crowd.

And he also shows no foresight. Why did he make the self-destruct sequence of his computers such a long and complicated process? Did he really think that if he had to resort to such a measure that he'd have such time? If he's too lazy to just encrypt his files then he should at least make the self-destruct a relatively easy process. I mean I guess you can say that he wants to make it so it's not so easy to lose his files but why would he let idiots work on his oh so valuable information or not just make a few prompts to prevent someone from accidentally doing it. If they were intentionally doing it its obvious they weren't on his side and were just going to find the information out anyway. Also, why is there no secret exit or escape route? You'd think if the information was the most important thing he'd make an exit route that's not dependent on Limbo.

Vergil didn't care for those people. He was just using them as pawns so that he could keep his plan on track. Not sure why he made the inscription so long, but he was also saving his inscriptions on a separate file if I remember correctly, and when you have a lot of stove on your hard drive and are trying to save it on a separate file or disc, that tends to take a very long time. The self destruct to me, is from Vergil's own fail. But Vergil was prepared, obvious from the steal doors that were closed off a lot of places, and you had no choice but to go through broken floors and walls in Limbo form.

What's even so important about this information? It doesn't help them at all later and the only thing that would be important that I can see is his existence. Why did he even bother putting his own bio in his files? Was he afraid he'd forget it?

You never know when you might need something important.For example, say you had Yugioh deck and you're like, "I don't need it" then you go far away, and meet kids who wanna duel you, and you regret not having your deck and they don't share. Something like that, but I think you get what I'm saying.

His fight with Dante at the end makes no sense at all either, through out the entire game Dante is shown to be better at fighting than Vergil. From Vergil having trouble with enemies that Dante easily takes out, to getting instantly rendered useless in the Mundus fight, to him having Dante do all the physical work. He's apparently shown to be the intelligent one. But in the end when him and Dante disagree his immediate course of action is to try to kill Dante in a one on one fight. And then once defeated he claims he loved Dante despite just trying to murder him at the drop of a hat.

Vergil was trying to not bring attention to himself because of his existence being a secret. Why would you try and do strong attacks, when you're trying to keep yourself hidden from a powerful demon god who can detect a power rise from a mile away? Also with the end with Vergil's "immediate course of action" how's that any different with DMC3 vergil? DMC3 Vergil was asked by Dante what he was gonna do with Sparda's power, and he responds by attacking him. In DmC, I felt Vergil was weakened during the Mundus fight and was sucked into Mundus's environment and therefore was weakened as his power was getting taken away from his body. In th final fight, Vergil always thought Dante was fighting with him and was willing to rule over humanity with him, but that plan was failed. Remember, Dante had a vision of his mother telling him that true freedom comes from letting humans carve their own path, and Dante took that as not letting them be ruled by a dictator. Even if it was his own brother. Vergil truly wanted to not be separated from Dante, and now that he has, he felt betrayed. I don't think Vergil's ever been betrayed before and as such, took it badly.

The ending also makes Dante look like stupid too.

Nice way to start.

Through out the whole game Vergil being stupid and kind of a **** has been telegraphed to him and the audience but he's still so shocked when he turns out to be not such a nice guy. Hours ago ( or days, however this game's timeline works ) Vergil shot Lilith in the back putting them all in danger and provoking Mundus to destroy the city in a rage. He puts them all in such danger and at most all he does is say "What the f---?" as if Vergil had just spilled soda all over Dante's new shirt. Even then it's so clear Vergil barely cared about Kat and was only using her to suit his own ends and Dante is appalled when Vergil implies that's exactly what was doing.

Dante had suspicions. When Phinias asked when Mundus is defeated who'd take his place, when Vergil wouldn't agree to help him save Kat which made him doubt whether or not he's really doing this for the humans, him shooting Lilith. He had suspicions, but each thing Vergil did, made his suspicions rise, and his response to Lilith shooting wasn't one of him being generally shocked of Vergil, but more of he knew Vergil would go far, but didn't think he'd break the promise DANTE MADE, (not Vergil) to let Lilith live in order to save Kat, which is why he was like "What the F*ck?!" Plus, Vergil's whole plan focused on getting Mundus angry so that he'd be reckless, so obviously, what would make Mundus more ****ed off then anything? The death of his heir and future controller of the world.

I've also heard people claim that Dante is more "human" in this one despite him being changed to not be human at all. Even though making him half-angel really adds nothing to the story but making him more sueish than before. I mean the entire theme of these games even in the title was Dante embracing his human side as a strong point but Dante agrees with Vergil that humans are weak and can't really protect themselves he just disagrees on how to deal with the issue.

Just like DMC3 Dante for being so OP and having generally no problem in cutscenes in 2,3, and 4. old Dante is just as Gary Stu as ever in an anime-esques demographic. And new Dante's human feeling is a lot like Sparda from the original. But obviously you won't see that because I'm comparing new Dante with old Sparda, but that's my opinion anyway so take it or leave it.

I also find it hilarious how at the end of the game they act as if they've saved the world by unleashing demons all over it. Slaughtering millions if not billions of people because the only person that can really fight back against it is Dante, and unless Dante uses his time-stopping powers ( that come out of nowhere at all and are never explained nor brought up again other than a lazy and convenient way of getting Vergil and Kat out of Mundus' rage explosion in the V-Mobile ) while traveling all over the world to kill every demon ever.

You mean like how in DMC3, Dante did nothing about Temi-Ni-Gru or trying to seal it back into the ground since that killed millions, or how in DMC4, Dante didn't try and stop all this from happening earlier before demons started popping out of hell gates? Vergil intended for Limbo to collapse into the real world so that the humans could see them and realize they are in danger, so that they would worship him and Dante as kings as oppose to evil terrorist. However, after talking with his mother in a vision, and Phinias explaining who would take Mundus's place (implying who would be the next dictator) Dante wanted humans to see the demons so that they can fight back from their oppressors while he watches over them and fights with them from the shadows, just as the old Dante has been doing for the entire series.

Mundus also makes no sense. Despite his obvious failing at tracking Dante. He's an all-powerful God and his way of going about world domination is economic control? Why? He can destroy entire cities in a second and nobody can even hurt him. What use does he even have to keep the humans around anyway? Why doesn't he just kill them all and let demons roam? Instead his plan revolves around manipulation and debt control.

Same reason why Sanctus didn't just kill off all the in Fortuna; power over all humans and being worshiped as a god through the reality bases. No one will have respect for you or have faith in you if you destroy buildngs and cities just because you can. And as I said, Dante broke out of prison and hid himself off of Limbo until he took two strippers home.

I could go on but I've rambled enough about how full of holes this story is despite its baffling praise.

Baffling? So I baffle about my liking for DmC? So I guess people who praise the old series for it's lack luster anime-esqe story are a free pass? Yeah, okay. Guess I know now.

Thanks for reading this long ramble.

Thanks for making it easy to counter your arguments.^_^
 

AlchemistFromEden

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But in the dmc 2001 the humans developed their weapons while being free, in dmc 2013 they developed their weapons with mundus on their back...So mundus could have easily made the humans unable to develop weapons that would make them able to fight back or even slave them before they have the chance to develop any weapons...

Anyway I lost hope with capcom, every star they had left the boat Shinji Mikami (creator of resident evil), Hideki Kamiya (creator of devil may cry), Keiji Inafune (creator of mega man)...I feel like the only good director they have left are Kenji Oguro and Hideaki Itsuno (at least for non fighting games). The capcom I loved is gone. They will continue to whore their license for foreigner teenager


(this is me every time I think about capcom)
i seriously hate this misconception that if ONE GUY leaves then the other hundreds of people that worked on it are no longer a factor, its insulting to all game developers, sure its ok to name them but to say, OH THIS SERIES IS DEAD WITHOUT THIS ONE GUY, is complete bullshit -_-
 

Triceranuke

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I have some answers, kinda.
Mostly pertaining to limbo, at least the way I saw it. From what I gather the more powerful the demon the more powerful effect it has on the real world. Thus why Mundus could destroy the city while the hunter could only wreck a small site. Lesser demons can't do much. Dante was able to 'kill' Kat at the time because she was projecting her soul to Limbo and during the raid she was pulling Dante's soul without his body so he could help her. Exiting Limbo only worked when he killed a powerful demon who pulled him in or upon reaching a.. Rift? Pretty sure they called them rifts. Area where limbo and real world are closer together.

As to the slowing down time thing, it's shown that Dante's devil trigger has some effect in limbo to slow down time and that Nephilim are able to 'move between worlds more freely' and largely have more control. I feel like that chase scene was Dante coming into some nascent nephilim powers and tapping into them to save his brother and Kat.

On the rest of it, I don't know.
 

Nekodark

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No long answer from me besides then ending as well as the full story made sense to me because I am RPG/JRPG minded and tend to follow the story more then the battles so I followed this story and it was not hard to do so and I enjoyed it which is the only thing that truly matters.
 

Adel

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i seriously hate this misconception that if ONE GUY leaves then the other hundreds of people that worked on it are no longer a factor, its insulting to all game developers, sure its ok to name them but to say, OH THIS SERIES IS DEAD WITHOUT THIS ONE GUY, is complete bullshit -_-
you have no idea how important directors are, thats what capcom and other publisher want you to think...
 

TWOxACROSS

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I will say this - Mundus controlling the world through debt and subterfuge is a decent way to go about domination. Humans feel they're the victims of real world circumstances that are nearly out of their control; the world runs on finances, and to renounce that would be to live a sad life in a shack in the middle of the woods or end up a homeless bum that no one listens to. If Mundus just took over the world as "Raaaawr! I'm an immortal demon king Mundus!" and started farming people left and right, he'd have more rebellion on his hands, and it'd just generally be a greater hindrance in trying to rule. Sure he's immortal and he, himself, has little to worry about, but goddamn the inconveniences of consistent rebellion would be staggering, and counterproductive to soul harvesting.

Let's take two real world examples - if conspiracy theorists are to be believed, the States could be controlled by a select few using debt to enslave us (sound familiar :P), and systematically passing laws to divorce us from our rights. Fighting against something like that is extremely difficult, because it's very difficult to prove. Try gathering up some armed forces and raiding the "headquarters" of your oppressors and you'll be seen as terrorists to the greater public that thinks you're batshit insane conspiracy theorists. HOWEVER! Take a look at places that are or were ruled by tyrants, like Syria. Syria's leaders are atrocious human beings, and we all know this, ordering their military to fire upon peaceful protests and even medical providers just trying to help anyone, mostly civilians, injured in the uprising. A group of armed forces fighting back against Syria's government are seen as freedom fighters, and are widely supported by most of the Syrian population, and to other countries around the world.

In the case of Syria, everyone is rightly siding with the freedom fighters. In the case of the States, the people in charge are at least reluctantly accepted to at most highly praised, because they still, in a way, are keeping people alive and comfortable. Granted, alive and comfortable through debt and living in a society that greatly requires money in order to do or be anything society deems worthwhile, but to try and rise up against a proposed secret society would make you look like a terrorist.

If you were going to take over, which one would you pick? I'd go with the one that makes me look like a savior and my enemies look like the bad guys.
 

Paexie

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They also never get into much deep about Sparda. When the demons attacked the mansion, we know that only EVA was killed during that time and Sparda and his sons was able to get away. He then proceeds to block their memories then after that we don't have much details.

The only thing we know is that Sparda was imprisoned. How? Is it because he surrenders himself to Mundus and make him promise that he won't hurt his child in exchange of imprisoning him?
He probably stays far from the kids to fight him, but remember Mundus is immortal thanks to his hell gate and tons of demons like the Drekavacs where probably fighting him until (two chain him up but who knows how that actually turned out) they managed to imprison him.
 
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