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What Are You Thinking?

Morgan

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For me, feedback is fuel, but to keep the engine running properly, I need an occasional whip. I need someone to tell me "Well, this really SUCKS for reasons X, Y and Z".

You need a , then? That sounds like a Loud American.
:ROFL:
 

therogis

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Because trying to edit my post with a quote on mobile is a pain in the butt with my clumsy fingers, here's my previous post which I'm gonna delete after this to avoid double-posting :D

"Loud Americans everywhere in our elitist writing club :ROFL:

I just realized I skipped something from your post that needs a proper answer/personal explanation, I'm atm a bit on the go but I'll return to that later. :)"

Now to that "later" part:
You didn't actually need to write hated enemies kissing for clout. You don't magically learn what consent is when you switch from fanfic writing to original writing. That's a You thing. Plenty of fanfic authors have done [checks notes] Dragonball Z fanfic without showing Vegeta getting Mpregged by Goku, or whatever.

If you gave a f#ck about the craft, and writing to hone yourself instead of writing for clout, you would've already been doing it.

So what I wanted to add in here, is that I've never thought any community forced me to write anything or that I magically learned anything just by changing my audience. I learned stuff by falling high to the nest of Loud Americans :rofl: Honestly speaking, without them I wouldn't have anything published to this day.

Here's the thing: For me, though trust me I've seen it happen for some other people as well, the crappy feedback can make you think it's a good piece of art, even though it was really a crappy-written morally gray one glorifying nonconsent kisses and forced gay romance. I call it feedback blindness.

And yes, that's not giving a f*ck about the craft, like you said. That's Entertainer style. You know Artists and Entertainers, I recall we were discussing about it so I bet you get the point. It's basically the same what you told me above.

While the morally problematic and crappy-written fic is not a piece of great writing ("Mona Lisa", to quote you!) it can be a piece of good (ok, maybe not good, but decent in said example) fanfic. I just don't think original writing and fic-writing should be counted in the same category. They're both writing and creative work, but they are very different and, IMO, noncomparable, the same way as my legal philosophy textbooks are not comparable to the best novels I've ever read.

And this is where feedback blindness steps in. The poor ficwriter with their nonconsent forced gay moment has gotten only awws and "wow that was great" for feedback. They think it's a great piece of writing. It's not. It's crap. But there's no one to tell them that. As long as no one does that, even their original writing ends up to be a fanfic-level one, which, in originals, just usually doesn't work.
And the first one to tell them what's wrong in their original is just a bad reader, because "in fanfic world everyone loved it!". (The fact that popularity and quality are definitely not the same thing is another related problem here...)

Of course it's not the community to blame for that kind of blindness. It's a writer weakness, like I said. But that hopefully explains my point a little better... Or maybe I'm just repeating myself :rofl:
 

Rebel Dynasty

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And just like that, I'm writing three short stories at once. This way, if I get stuck on how to proceed, I can switch to another project. Since none of them are full length, it won't be overwhelming to juggle them.

+Had a house inspection for the house we're after (put a deposit on it) and it went well, so now we're waiting on an appraisal. Hopefully financing can hold on until then. Also hope the vermiculite didn't have asbestos in it, or that if it does, the current owners foot the bill on removing it. Please, please, please let us get this place; I can already see our stuff in it. T_T
 

Morgan

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While the morally problematic and crappy-written fic is not a piece of great writing ("Mona Lisa", to quote you!) it can be a piece of good (ok, maybe not good, but decent in said example) fanfic. I just don't think original writing and fic-writing should be counted in the same category. They're both writing and creative work, but they are very different and, IMO, noncomparable, the same way as my legal philosophy textbooks are not comparable to the best novels I've ever read.
Duh, but if you're presenting a poorly told legal philosophy paper of your own making to a crowd of people who can barely understand five+ letter words in a Terms and Conditions text for a website, no amount of "That sounds smart!" should convince you that you sound smart, like no amount of highschool girls and repressed housewives lusting over perpetually-seventeen-year-old Edward Cullen should've convinced Stephenie Meyer that the Twilight series was worth the paper it was printed on. Again, it's a matter of self respect, respect for the craft, and learning to read the room/know the audience and what you want from them that can help you, but there's a surfeit of authors in all levels who simply have no shame and take advantage of passive consumerism and the demand for feelgood schlock.

But yeah, we're in agreement. The culture as-is, isn't conductive to "getting feedback" but sometimes authors need to be a bit more honest about what it is they want and maybe just F off if they can't be honest or deliver anything good without sycophancy backing them up.

See also: Joss Whedon and how much smoke he got blown up his butt about his "feminist works", when he hasn't written anything decent since the 90s. Even in those times he was trying to sell the audience on a creepy forced romance between an adult vampire and a highschooler (as in, a 14-year-old student, not a 17-years-11-months-and-29-days-old student). Buffy wasn't actually good. Neither was Angel. Firefly even less. Yes, it is still disturbing that his idea for the prostitute character in Firefly was to have her be savagely r#ped to death, and the man who continually shamed her for her job would only "treat her like a lady" after seeing her battered body. WTF was his problem?
 

therogis

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authors need to be a bit more honest about what it is they want and maybe just F off if they can't be honest or deliver anything good without sycophancy backing them up.
That's actually a fine way to sum it up.
D...Did I just a fan fic vs original work war?! 0_o In the words of the "Emperor," "Hehehe. Good." I am joking, but Mom and Dad please stop fighting. 0_o
Fight? Where?
IMO this was a pretty good conversation. It opened some new viewpoints for me (which is rare lol). At least I didn't feel it was fighting, nor a fic vs originals war. :D
 
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Goldsickle

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In Finnish language, "dragon" translates to "lohikäärme", which literally means "salmon snake".
Maybe Finnish people knew the truth about dragons...
That they taste good with soy sauce =0~~

I think I mentioned it before but seal in Malay is "Anjing Laut", literally meaning "sea dogs".
So technically, we have been calling them "sea doggos" for decades X33333
 

therogis

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You: Is this a fight?

Us, at each other:
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To be honest, I have sometimes trouble seeing if I've been too aggressive in my opinions, so I actually worried a bit about this. I've got through a lot of my social problems in the past year, but opinion sharing still needs some work.

You should see me debating at the university though. It's a real war there :D Aggressive and carefully prepared argumentation is my way to cover my terrible stage fright... and so far it has been successful. It's like a survival battle for me :ROFL:
But I guess it's an advantage in my profession.
 

Goldsickle

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When will people learn that cutting off the mic in the middle of a speech will give that speech even more attention?
International attention even, when news about these interrupted speeches get covered on internet news.

There are some speeches from overseas I would never have known about if some idiot didn't cut off the mic while the person is talking.
Thanks, stupid mic cutter person.
Now more people know.
 
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therogis

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I've done the dishes, cleaned up the kitchen, and just made sandwich cake for my husband just because he loves it.
Now I'm gonna do some laundry and dry them in the garden.

My husband is coming back from work in about 4 hours and is gonna see a sparkling house, just washed and sun-dried clothes, one of his favourite foods, and an exhausted wife.

What am I thinking then? Pretty much "Help me, I'm becoming a middle-aged housewife"
 

Morgan

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When will people learn that cutting off the mic in the middle of a speech will give that speech even more attention?
International attention even, when news about these interrupted speeches get covered on internet news.

There are some speeches from overseas I would never have known about if some idiot didn't cut off the mic while the person is talking.
Thanks, stupid mic cutter person.
Now more people know.
If it's the speech I think you're talking about:
They had the gall to say that a specific part of that speech "wasn't relevant" and needed to be edited out. The speech about the origins of the holiday people were celebrating. Told by a veteran. The amount of disrespect needed to censor a veteran's microphone while he taught true history to the crowd is unbelievable.

These same censors are the ones crowing about "respecting the troops" and "freedom of speech".
 

Angel

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Firefly was awesome (runs and hides)

CT: Back from the seaside...beautiful blue skies, warm waters, miles of sandy beach, just the right amount of sun and breeze to not make it unbearably hot...

Best part was, minimal masks. It felt like pre-pandemic times after what seems like an eternity of zero fun. It was also the first holiday where the kids coped without fighting, without internet and without screens. Youngest son even nagged to play board games!

Of course, now everything is back to normal less than 24 hours after coming home. Both boys are now xbox zombies once more...
 

Goldsickle

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If it's the speech I think you're talking about:
It's that speech and another speech, where a student was speaking negatively about the school they were in and the mic got cut.
One after another.
 

Morgan

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It's that speech and another speech, where a student was speaking negatively about the school they were in and the mic got cut.
One after another.

“When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say.”​

― George R.R. Martin,
 

Xeroxis

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“When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar, you're only telling the world that you fear what he might say.”​

― George R.R. Martin,
It's also better to mark a liar not by removing his tongue, but splitting it to strip the snake of his camouflage.

I really really want to write the story I've been crafting for the last year and a half, but I'm worried my writing won't be sufficient enough to properly describe the themes and ideas I want to get across, I'm not convinced I'm competent enough which is frustrating.
 

Morgan

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I really really want to write the story I've been crafting for the last year and a half, but I'm worried my writing won't be sufficient enough to properly describe the themes and ideas I want to get across, I'm not convinced I'm competent enough which is frustrating.
Honestly?

Same.

But at least you're not the scriptwriter(s) that wrote.... [checks notes] the episodes to all the "mature reinterpretations" of children's shows that keep popping up in this or the ranting thinking thread as conversation points. They don't believe they're incompetent, but also have no shame whatsoever. That level of confidence is enviable.

Best tip I have is

a) write your thing anyway. Don't publish, just write. If there's a bit you can't write because you don't "know enough", put in brackets what it is you're trying to convey, and keep writing. Get it done from start to finish first.
b) read. Read from authors who do convey what it is you're trying to go for, even if this means going into different genres. Or get the information from other sources. (Want to write a character giving a rousing speech? Look up speeches done by influential people. Watch videos, read transcripts, w/e).
c) get your mind blown by the above step, but instead of cribbing the really good parts directly from the source, think "how would I have written this if it came up in my story?"
d) profit. do that sh#t in the story.
e) if you're already doing the above steps? Do more of it.
 

V's patron

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@Angel
I liked the show back in the day. It just never became a favorite like Angel did. Maybe if it went on longer?

@Xeroxis
I'm in the same boat. I think writer's block is just stage fright run amok.

Morgan is right. It's better just to do it anyway. If anything you could always fix it in a rewrite.

See what works, what doesn't etc.
 
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