Was anyone else disappointed with how the story went for DMC5?

meg5493

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This sounds like something more fitting for V than Nero tbh.
I think it was at some point in concept stages.

But it made sense in the story, Mundas decided that if having a human half is what made Dante strong he'd have his own son that would kill Dante. So he does but the Order of the Sword found him and they experimented on the baby with something of Sparda's (i can't remember specifics its been a while lol) and that causes some ****ed up **** to Nero which gets explored in the fan fic. I don't wanna spoil the whole thing in text since it kinda takes away from how good the buildup is in the story, but in terms of how DMC5's story was going to go I thought it would ge along more that kinda tone.
 

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I think it was at some point in concept stages.

But it made sense in the story, Mundas decided that if having a human half is what made Dante strong he'd have his own son that would kill Dante. So he does but the Order of the Sword found him and they experimented on the baby with something of Sparda's (i can't remember specifics its been a while lol) and that causes some ****ed up **** to Nero which gets explored in the fan fic. I don't wanna spoil the whole thing in text since it kinda takes away from how good the buildup is in the story, but in terms of how DMC5's story was going to go I thought it would ge along more that kinda tone.
Was this fic called DMC revelations ?
 

DarkSlayerVergil

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I think it was at some point in concept stages.

But it made sense in the story, Mundas decided that if having a human half is what made Dante strong he'd have his own son that would kill Dante. So he does but the Order of the Sword found him and they experimented on the baby with something of Sparda's (i can't remember specifics its been a while lol) and that causes some ****ed up **** to Nero which gets explored in the fan fic. I don't wanna spoil the whole thing in text since it kinda takes away from how good the buildup is in the story, but in terms of how DMC5's story was going to go I thought it would ge along more that kinda tone.
I get the logic behind Mundus plan(I myself was entertaining some similar ideas) but it doesn't make sense within the context its being presented. Like how would he know Dante surpassed him if he ever only only fought him when Dante was drastically weaker than him and even after Dante got a power boost he still gave him the smoke. If this Mundus fought DMC4 Dante than I'd understand.
 

meg5493

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I get the logic behind Mundus plan(I myself was entertaining some similar ideas) but it doesn't make sense within the context its being presented. Like how would he know Dante surpassed him if he ever only only fought him when Dante was drastically weaker than him and even after Dante got a power boost he still gave him the smoke. If this Mundus fought DMC4 Dante than I'd understand.
It works within the context of Dante beating Mundas 2/3 times and really only needing Trish to buff charge his guns to finish him off. Mundas underestimated Dante's human heritage and thats what got him beat. In the fic if I remember correctly Mundas wanted to try the same to see if its the human component that makes Dante stronger than an actual full blooded demon. I'm rereading the fic right now because the specifics of it are blurry but I'll try to edit this with Mundas' reasoning behind it.
 

ShiningTempest

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DMC's lore does not allow for expanded plots.
You have to prequel and recycle elements like opening portals and mcguffins like Sparda sword to keep things interesting.
There is a reason DmC tried to sequel bait and set up stuff.

Despite that what they did with DMCV was impressive with little lore they could work with.
 

meg5493

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DMC's lore does not allow for expanded plots.
You have to prequel and recycle elements like opening portals and mcguffins like Sparda sword to keep things interesting.
There is a reason DmC tried to sequel bait and set up stuff.

Despite that what they did with DMCV was impressive with little lore they could work with.
I respectfully disagree none of the other games had such extensive retconning like 5 did. 3 comes the closest but mostly in regards to introducing Vergil earlier than 1. 5's changes were things that never had to be retconned but they did it anyway, Mundas eating the fruit, Dante and Vergils childhood, the yamato, 2 being before 4 but Dante can't access his Majin form and so on. There a differences between adding in additional information that we never knew about ie. the Temingru, how Dante got his shop, Vergil having Nero before 3, and changing established lore to make your game fit into the series. 5 does this over and over again to make it the most DMC Devil may cry. Theres a reason DMC4 and 5 feel completely different and its not from the 10 year gap between them.


While DmC actually ends like a normal game, the DLC ends it on a cliff hanger for a sequel yes but at the very least its set up as one.
 

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@ShiningTempest
I don't think the lore is that restrictive or even the problem. Its more about character and Dante is too defined by the trauma of loosing his family.

He got a resolution in the first game but the series never developed the fallout from it, gave him other aspects to his character or find anything new to say about his relationship with his family outside of giving him a dynamic with Vergil.

The light novel did give him a past as a mercenary but they didn't really do anything with it.

The reboot did give a few sequel hooks but it also gave Dante a clearer character conflict to carry over into other games. The classic series could have done that but didn't take advantage of the opportunity. The timeskips didn't help and this is also true for Lady and Trish (especially Trish).

@meg5493 i don't think the retcon with Vergil and Dante was that out of place. It just didn't help to make Vergil that much of a jerk.

Nero's whole thing about brothers working out their differences fell flat because of it.
 
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meg5493

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I@meg5493 i don't think the retcon with Vergil and Dante was that out of place. It just didn't help to make Vergil that much of a jerk.

Nero's whole thing about brothers working out their differences fell flat because of it.

See the whole thing with that whole "subplot" in 5 is stupid and adds nothing besides telling us Eva is a terrible mother, because when V says Eva loved Dante more than him he's right, we have literal file entries saying as much.

Now if say 5 had taken V confessing he felt Eva loved Dante more than him and Dante having the dream of Eva looking for Vergil due to being back in Redgrave city culminating in a heated Vergil 3 fight where Vergil basically pours this out on Dante and him snapping back saying Eva loved him to the point of dying for him; then yeah I wouldn't mind it as much but honestly why Eva would be in this game at all baffles me.
 

ShiningTempest

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5's changes were things that never had to be retconned but they did it anyway, Mundas eating the fruit, Dante and Vergils childhood, the yamato, 2 being before 4 but Dante can't access his Majin form and so on.
What Mundus eating the fruit shows that he was just a fodder demon before eating the fruit, which makes him look weak.

Also Sparda never ate anything yet he Mundus level. What gives?
What makes Sparda so speshul?
When did Sparda get on Mundus level?
Does that mean Sparda was always stronger than Mundus and Mundus had to eat the fruit just to get on Spardas level?

The content from 2 was never considered canon due to its un popularity. Its neat that Itsuno managed to salvage all the good concepts from that game.

What bothers me is that Dante is not getting a family. Since Vergil having a child can be used a plot point to drive two games, Dantes child can carry the series forward now that there is nothing to do for Dante anymore.
 

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See the whole thing with that whole "subplot" in 5 is stupid and adds nothing besides telling us Eva is a terrible mother, because when V says Eva loved Dante more than him he's right, we have literal file entries saying as much.

Now if say 5 had taken V confessing he felt Eva loved Dante more than him and Dante having the dream of Eva looking for Vergil due to being back in Redgrave city culminating in a heated Vergil 3 fight where Vergil basically pours this out on Dante and him snapping back saying Eva loved him to the point of dying for him; then yeah I wouldn't mind it as much but honestly why Eva would be in this game at all baffles me.
I saw it as a way to explore why Vergil wanted power in the first place. It's like Dante's "I don't have a father" line but more fleshed out.

Granted i guess you could've focused more on Vergil getting resentful after Dante beating him in 3.
 
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Vergil95

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See the whole thing with that whole "subplot" in 5 is stupid and adds nothing besides telling us Eva is a terrible mother, because when V says Eva loved Dante more than him he's right, we have literal file entries saying as much.

Now if say 5 had taken V confessing he felt Eva loved Dante more than him and Dante having the dream of Eva looking for Vergil due to being back in Redgrave city culminating in a heated Vergil 3 fight where Vergil basically pours this out on Dante and him snapping back saying Eva loved him to the point of dying for him; then yeah I wouldn't mind it as much but honestly why Eva would be in this game at all baffles me.
It's not true That Eva loved dante more than vergil, this was never stated... She died because he was trying to save vergil....


This forum is also becoming boring, people can only complain about everything in the dmc universe, every single line, every single cutscene, character ecc... How boring
 

meg5493

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What Mundus eating the fruit shows that he was just a fodder demon before eating the fruit, which makes him look weak.

Also Sparda never ate anything yet he Mundus level. What gives?
What makes Sparda so speshul?
When did Sparda get on Mundus level?
Does that mean Sparda was always stronger than Mundus and Mundus had to eat the fruit just to get on Spardas level?

The content from 2 was never considered canon due to its un popularity. Its neat that Itsuno managed to salvage all the good concepts from that game.

What bothers me is that Dante is not getting a family. Since Vergil having a child can be used a plot point to drive two games, Dantes child can carry the series forward now that there is nothing to do for Dante anymore.
That whole thing really undermines Sparda "awakening to justice" since growing the fruit in the first place requires insane amounts of human blood so like this clearly wasn't the point yet since Mundas wasn't even king yet so what could Mundas have possibley done then if thats the case, plus the point about Sparda being more powerful without the fruit its just that whole thing wasn't thought through and makes no sense when you try to understand it.

2's always been canon just placed at the very end of the timeline due to how jaring it became after 3 and 4's releases. Its only a recent change that 2 became the piriaha its known as on release it was met with ok reception. The fact that instead of making it noncanon they just switch it with 4 and really makes no sense if you know about Dantes power level in that game.

Dante's been really put in a corner since they made sure every female character doesn't have a chance with him, and he's a giant hobbo man baby when he's not "serious" so my best guess is they'll make a character in a future game for him to get with and it'll be really sudden but no one will care.

I saw it as a way to explore why Vergil wanted power in the first place. It's like Dante's "I don't have a father" line but more fleshed out.

Granted i guess you could've focused more on Vergil getting resentful after Dante beating him in 3.
See it would be if it was Vergil saying these things. V says a lot of things that Vergil physically backs out on; he regrets the choices he's made in his life, he doesn't want to hurt Dante, doesn't want to kill innocent people, but at the end of the day it doesn't mean anything and is a poor attempt at making Vergil a deeper character. And I mean he's right tho Eva did love Dante more than Vergil and its the whole reason she got killed so the game gets no sympathy from me about it.


It's not true That Eva loved dante more than vergil, this was never stated... She died because he was trying to save vergil....


This forum is also becoming boring, people can only complain about everything in the dmc universe, every single line, every single cutscene, character ecc... How boring
In the Old Mans diary in the game it mentions how Vergil would come to the citys library quite often alone for periods of time, along with playing at the park (we don't know if it was with Dante or alone) Especially since their houses location is more secluded away from the town its not a stretch to say its a bit of a walk especially for at the very oldest, a 10yr boy. V thought Eva loved Dante more because she babied him more and maybe not intentionally she did since it was on one of those days he slipped out to play at the park and Eva couldn't find him. She thought he was in the house but he was at the park so its safe to assume it wasn't the first time he'd slip out without saying anything. She loved Vergil and Dante both yeah, but Dante clearly got more attention going by in game files.

And if you think its boring just don't reply to the thread, its literally discussing the flaws of DMC5 so its clearly a complaining thread.
 

Foxtrot94

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What Mundus eating the fruit shows that he was just a fodder demon before eating the fruit, which makes him look weak.
Fodder? What makes you say that? That's just assumption on your part, for all we know Mundus might have already been a really powerful demon, and he just ate the fruit to be THE most powerful (so much so that not even Sparda, or Dante, could actually kill him, just seal him away), and the Demon King.

Urizen himself didn't eat the fruit until the end of the game, and before he did he was able to kick the living crap out of Dante without even getting up from his throne.

What bothers me is that Dante is not getting a family.
More power to you if that is how you feel but personally, I thank God for that. Vergil having a son was cringe enough for me, I don't want the series to become a soap opera.

Also Sparda never ate anything yet he Mundus level. What gives?
It's not complicated actually. Some demons are simply more powerful than others inherently. No inconsistency there, no crazy mental gymnastic necessary to figure that out.
 
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Vergil95

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That whole thing really undermines Sparda "awakening to justice" since growing the fruit in the first place requires insane amounts of human blood so like this clearly wasn't the point yet since Mundas wasn't even king yet so what could Mundas have possibley done then if thats the case, plus the point about Sparda being more powerful without the fruit its just that whole thing wasn't thought through and makes no sense when you try to understand it.

2's always been canon just placed at the very end of the timeline due to how jaring it became after 3 and 4's releases. Its only a recent change that 2 became the piriaha its known as on release it was met with ok reception. The fact that instead of making it noncanon they just switch it with 4 and really makes no sense if you know about Dantes power level in that game.

Dante's been really put in a corner since they made sure every female character doesn't have a chance with him, and he's a giant hobbo man baby when he's not "serious" so my best guess is they'll make a character in a future game for him to get with and it'll be really sudden but no one will care.



See it would be if it was Vergil saying these things. V says a lot of things that Vergil physically backs out on; he regrets the choices he's made in his life, he doesn't want to hurt Dante, doesn't want to kill innocent people, but at the end of the day it doesn't mean anything and is a poor attempt at making Vergil a deeper character. And I mean he's right tho Eva did love Dante more than Vergil and its the whole reason she got killed so the game gets no sympathy from me about it.




In the Old Mans diary in the game it mentions how Vergil would come to the citys library quite often alone for periods of time, along with playing at the park (we don't know if it was with Dante or alone) Especially since their houses location is more secluded away from the town its not a stretch to say its a bit of a walk especially for at the very oldest, a 10yr boy. V thought Eva loved Dante more because she babied him more and maybe not intentionally she did since it was on one of those days he slipped out to play at the park and Eva couldn't find him. She thought he was in the house but he was at the park so its safe to assume it wasn't the first time he'd slip out without saying anything. She loved Vergil and Dante both yeah, but Dante clearly got more attention going by in game files.

And if you think its boring just don't reply to the thread, its literally discussing the flaws of DMC5 so its clearly a complaining thread.
The fact that vergil thinked Eva loved dante most dosent mean that it was the true, the file you mentioned let us see vergil point of view, we can't know what Eva was thinking... And Eva died for vergil if she didn love him she would have locked her along whit dante in locker and she would have survived...

Yeah I think this forum is becominf boring, because there is no more discussing here, but simply complaining about everything on dmc 5 or other aspect of dmc series ... I think people should also talk about good stuff about it, since the game I made by mostly good point the bad point are few... In my opinion its becoming boring every post I'm reading on this forum is about complaining , I will probably stay out of this forum a bit and return is some month...
 
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