• Welcome to the Devil May Cry Community Forum!

    We're a group of fans who are passionate about the Devil May Cry series and video gaming.

    Register Log in

Vergil getting DmC vergils moves

devil_inside123

The devil in the dark
Joined
Feb 17, 2015
Messages
363
Reaction score
107
Points
1,220
Even dmc 1 and dmc 2 would have gone very differently if dante would have used his style or is double jump lol
In the beginning of the game for example dante and Trish arrive at the island and Trish say: the castle is a is above this cliff came on
And she jump on tol of the cliff, but dante is unable to reach her despite him doing higher jump in dmc 3, isn't this stupid and inconsistent as well?
Dante should not use style in dmc 4 and 5 because it's not coerent whit dmc 1 and 2, yet they make style available because dmc 3 introduced it, but they completely came out of nowhere lol
Everyone talk about vergil, but what about dante and all his inconsistent power that completely came out of his ass? I guess that's OK because dmc 3 cannot be touched lol i think people just love to hate dmc reboot and they completely forget about all the **** done in the previous main game
Even vergil himself should not have been present in dmc 3, since according to dante and Trish, dante never saw vergil again after mundus killed her mother, because mundus took his brother after that incident and already transformed him into his Sergent but dmc 3 Retconned this for the better in my opinion

It's useless to think about all this stuff because dmc as always been inconsistent, game always expand on power and mitology, if we are going to think and try explain every single detail or every single **** about this saga, the dmc castle will crumble upon itself
We excuse inconsistencies with 1 and 2 because they were totally different canon. When itsuno came in it was more or less a soft reboot for the powerscale. But 3 4 and 5 all had the same team work on them and seeing as 3 is when vergil really became fleshed out i dont think its too much to ask for a little consistency from from the people who creater the modern characterizations of these characters and what they can do? Dmc1 was a pilot episode pretty much i personally am a bit more forgiving of inconsistencies from that like vergil not dying in dmc 1 even though that may be what was intended. But everything after 3 i believe should have that consistency. I swear if dante ever gets stopped by a locked door a gate that he needs the rusty key to with how strong he is im going to throw my console
 

Vergil95

Might controls everything, and without strength, y
Joined
Jun 15, 2018
Messages
801
Reaction score
214
Points
575
Age
25
We excuse inconsistencies with 1 and 2 because they were totally different canon. When itsuno came in it was more or less a soft reboot for the powerscale. But 3 4 and 5 all had the same team work on them and seeing as 3 is when vergil really became fleshed out i dont think its too much to ask for a little consistency from from the people who creater the modern characterizations of these characters and what they can do? Dmc1 was a pilot episode pretty much i personally am a bit more forgiving of inconsistencies from that like vergil not dying in dmc 1 even though that may be what was intended. But everything after 3 i believe should have that consistency. I swear if dante ever gets stopped by a locked door a gate that he needs the rusty key to with how strong he is im going to throw my console
Yet that's what happen in dmc 3, 4 and 5 lol dante still have to use key to open door (dmc 3) or take long rout because the passage is blocked (dmc 4, in the castle for example dante can't pass because some ice from a weak demon is blocking the way lol)
Or walking (in dmc 5 he could literally use devil trigger like he did in dmc 2 to fly directly to urizen, yet he still walk around no reason, and climb the whole qliphot tree, but he clearly use devil trigger at the start of mission 13 and 18 to reach lady and Trish both time)
The series have a lot of inconsistency but it's a game, things like this happens, especially because of gameplay, we should simply not overthink
 

devil_inside123

The devil in the dark
Joined
Feb 17, 2015
Messages
363
Reaction score
107
Points
1,220
Yet that's what happen in dmc 3, 4 and 5 lol dante still have to use key to open door (dmc 3) or take long rout because the passage is blocked (dmc 4, in the castle for example dante can't pass because some ice from a weak demon is blocking the way lol)
Or walking (in dmc 5 he could literally use devil trigger like he did in dmc 2 to fly directly to urizen, yet he still walk around no reason, and climb the whole qliphot tree, but he clearly use devil trigger at the start of mission 13 and 18 to reach lady and Trish both time)
The series have a lot of inconsistency but it's a game, things like this happens, especially because of gameplay, we should simply not overthink
I mean we havent seen dante fly since itsuno took over. Ive always thoughthe had wings but could only really glide untill SDT. This is a bit if head canon but i dont really like to consider 1 and 2 dante as the same one from 345, kinda like an unltimate spiderman and amazing spiderman situation. They have two different writers but are the same character. So while dante did beat mundus and such the details would have different if itsuno was writing him at the time. So any ability before 3 i just leave it open as to Wether itsuno is gonna ignore it or not. But to be fair we never really saw dante fly under his own power anywhere other than 2. Any other time hes been channeling the power of a devil arm he didnt have in 5
 

Vergil95

Might controls everything, and without strength, y
Joined
Jun 15, 2018
Messages
801
Reaction score
214
Points
575
Age
25
I mean we havent seen dante fly since itsuno took over. Ive always thoughthe had wings but could only really glide untill SDT. This is a bit if head canon but i dont really like to consider 1 and 2 dante as the same one from 345, kinda like an unltimate spiderman and amazing spiderman situation. They have two different writers but are the same character. So while dante did beat mundus and such the details would have different if itsuno was writing him at the time. So any ability before 3 i just leave it open as to Wether itsuno is gonna ignore it or not. But to be fair we never really saw dante fly under his own power anywhere other than 2. Any other time hes been channeling the power of a devil arm he didnt have in 5
Itsuno also directed dmc 2 by the way so

And he fly in dmc 5, also this whole itsuno things is stupid as hell because dmc 1 and 2 are canon anyway
 
Last edited:

devil_inside123

The devil in the dark
Joined
Feb 17, 2015
Messages
363
Reaction score
107
Points
1,220
No itsuno did cleanup. And it wasnt the sane scenerio writer or scene choreographer as the one from 3. Itsuno being slapped on tge devolopment halfway through is not a proper representation of his vision for his version if dante. Theres a reason 3 is the most story heavy. He was letting us get familiar with this universe. If 3 wasnt so tied into 1 im pretty sure 1 Wouldnt have anywhere near the relevance it has. It was original an open and closed story witu alluisions to backstories and such but witubno clear intention to expand upon it. The fact that holy water was even a thing implies the exsistence of holy beings. Im kinda glad they dropped it as i think it was a leftover from before they decided there are no true angels. Point is those are writing inconsistencies from things that were never meant to be expanded upon. The deal with vergil is its all from itsunos mind meaning he should be able to keep from contradicting his own characters abilities. Its like the difference between sam raimi giving spidey organic webs and stan lee suddenly doing it out of nowhere unexplained. If he did that people would be more upset than if another writer did it simply cuz its expected that a writer at least have some idea of how theyre characters develop new traits and such. And who knows. Maybe there is an explanation but its so insignificant that he didnt mentoon it. Maybe vergil did just fight another dooplerganger demon
 

Vergil95

Might controls everything, and without strength, y
Joined
Jun 15, 2018
Messages
801
Reaction score
214
Points
575
Age
25
No itsuno did cleanup. And it wasnt the sane scenerio writer or scene choreographer as the one from 3. Itsuno being slapped on tge devolopment halfway through is not a proper representation of his vision for his version if dante. Theres a reason 3 is the most story heavy. He was letting us get familiar with this universe. If 3 wasnt so tied into 1 im pretty sure 1 Wouldnt have anywhere near the relevance it has. It was original an open and closed story witu alluisions to backstories and such but witubno clear intention to expand upon it. The fact that holy water was even a thing implies the exsistence of holy beings. Im kinda glad they dropped it as i think it was a leftover from before they decided there are no true angels. Point is those are writing inconsistencies from things that were never meant to be expanded upon. The deal with vergil is its all from itsunos mind meaning he should be able to keep from contradicting his own characters abilities. Its like the difference between sam raimi giving spidey organic webs and stan lee suddenly doing it out of nowhere unexplained. If he did that people would be more upset than if another writer did it simply cuz its expected that a writer at least have some idea of how theyre characters develop new traits and such. And who knows. Maybe there is an explanation but its so insignificant that he didnt mentoon it. Maybe vergil did just fight another dooplerganger demon
Yeah but the difference is that Sam raimi spider man and stan lee spider man or marvel studios spider man are different character and universe
Dmc 1 dante is the same character from dmc 2 3 4 and 5 lol
This game are part of the same universe, they are all canon
Also holy water exist in every dmc game except DMC5, also i don't see the connection between holy water and holy being lol holy water is the. Water you find in church there is no connection to other being, even the game description say that it's blessed water nothing more
 

devil_inside123

The devil in the dark
Joined
Feb 17, 2015
Messages
363
Reaction score
107
Points
1,220
Yeah but the difference is that Sam raimi spider man and stan lee spider man or marvel studios spider man are different character and universe
Dmc 1 dante is the same character from dmc 2 3 4 and 5 lol
This game are part of the same universe, they are all canon
Also holy water exist in every dmc game except DMC5, also i don't see the connection between holy water and holy being lol holy water is the. Water you find in church there is no connection to other being, even the game description say that it's blessed water nothing more
Blessed by who though? Without some sort of god thered be nothing for anything holy to derive its power from. That implies that just the priest himself has innate power against demons. Its the same as saying a cross can burn a demon even though god doesnt exsist. And i get its all the same canon. But itsuno has discarded alot of kamiyas ideas already to better fit his own vision. Vergil being dead/not seeing dante since they were kids, the sparda sword holding all of spardas power and being a memento to dante from his dad. Dantes own demon form just being his dads and only adopting other demons forms beyond that, he even changed the name of the store back to devil may cry. He chamged alot so its more understandabke for people to acceot the changes between kamiya and itsunos run
 

berto

I Saw the Devil
Moderator
Joined
Oct 15, 2011
Messages
8,909
Reaction score
8,143
Points
14,825
Even dmc 1 and dmc 2 would have gone very differently if dante would have used his style or is double jump
That's not the same in the least. For one, how? That cliff was not Double jump height. I know because I played NG+ with the double jump. More importantly, and to the point, Dante doesn't scream Trickster everytime dashes in cutscenes, he doesn't use Rebellion Combo A or B. Those are gameplay elements that don't appear in the narrative. Vergil, however, did use the sword to create a portal in both games, used Dplgngr in cutscenes. They are powers he that he got from nowhere and are part of the narrative.

the castle is a is above this cliff came on
For the record, you get to the castle by walking around that cliff.
 

Vergil95

Might controls everything, and without strength, y
Joined
Jun 15, 2018
Messages
801
Reaction score
214
Points
575
Age
25
Blessed by who though? Without some sort of god thered be nothing for anything holy to derive its power from. That implies that just the priest himself has innate power against demons. Its the same as saying a cross can burn a demon even though god doesnt exsist. And i get its all the same canon. But itsuno has discarded alot of kamiyas ideas already to better fit his own vision. Vergil being dead/not seeing dante since they were kids, the sparda sword holding all of spardas power and being a memento to dante from his dad. Dantes own demon form just being his dads and only adopting other demons forms beyond that, he even changed the name of the store back to devil may cry. He chamged alot so its more understandabke for people to acceot the changes between kamiya and itsunos run
More than discarding he just expanded upon dmc 1, for example vergil being dead at the end of dmc 1 is not entirely true since his fate was pretty ambiguous, since the first time i saw that cutscene in dmc 1 i always thought vergil did teleported somewhere, other people think he died, official source always listed that as ambiguous
Itsuno simply revealed the answer in dmc 5, that vergil was not actually dead

The sparda weapon too being a memento from dante s father was also expanded in dmc 3 whit good explanation

So Itsuno just expanded on the world, even if things are sometimes incoherent, they can be put together if we use our imagination

Same fore vergil doppelganger

Things like This always happens in fantasy story, like in star wars, Lucas decided only later that Vader was Luke s dad, or when Tolkien retconned gollum ring from being just a normal ring whit power to be the ONE ring where all lord of the rings story is based
Retcon are present everywhere when telling a story, and they are necessary to expand the story for the better, unless you are called j k Rowling and you start writing the story you want by having everything in you're head from start to finish...

Also the holy water is probably blessed by some priest, and priest exist in dmc since we saw normal church in the anime, so Jesus Christ and his father God exist in dmc universe

And one last things, Dante fly at the end of dmc 5 prologue, to fight urizen he use devil trigger and fly directly into urizen face and try to break his shield whit rebellion, he literally stand there flying for a lot of second before urizen destroyes his sword... So dante can fly before acquiring sin dt, and as I say before dmc 2 is Canon so he can fly, but in order to tell a story you also have to not do this sort of things, and let character do stuff in order for the story to progress , same reason why Gandalf didn't fly whit the eagle and burn the ring directly, lord of the rings would not have existed

if dante would have used his power at full in every game actually every game would not have existed or ended pretty quickly, he does use his full power in dmc 2 and look what happens lol
 
Last edited:

DragonMaster2010

Don't Let the Fall of America be Your Fall
Premium
Joined
Jan 29, 2012
Messages
8,957
Reaction score
11,122
Points
17,315
Age
26
It's all canon dudes. It's just an evolution with each new game.
 

V's patron

be loyal to what matters
Joined
Sep 14, 2010
Messages
8,206
Reaction score
5,986
Points
12,915
@devil_inside123
to me, DMC3 is more of a retcon than a reboot. They even ended in a way that would've tied into DMC1 which they wouldn't have done otherwise. Granted it might have been easier just to do what Persona did and just create new characters and go from there. I'm hoping DMC6 finally does that.

DMC isn't incoherent to me, it's more inconsistent with itself. Especially 5 because its trying to do a lot more than the other games. So Vergil using Doppelganger is not that big a deal to me.
 

DragonMaster2010

Don't Let the Fall of America be Your Fall
Premium
Joined
Jan 29, 2012
Messages
8,957
Reaction score
11,122
Points
17,315
Age
26
@devil_inside123
to me, DMC3 is more of a retcon than a reboot. They even ended in a way that would've tied into DMC1 which they wouldn't have done otherwise. Granted it might have been easier just to do what Persona did and just create new characters and go from there. I'm hoping DMC6 finally does that.

DMC isn't incoherent to me, it's more inconsistent with itself. Especially 5 because its trying to do a lot more than the other games. So Vergil using Doppelganger is not that big a deal to me.
Exactly. It just feels like this is less about evolving from the last game, and more about not wanting DmC involved with the main series in any capacity because it's the pariah of the name Devil May Cry, which is played out because, seriously. It's been 7 years now.
 

Vergil95

Might controls everything, and without strength, y
Joined
Jun 15, 2018
Messages
801
Reaction score
214
Points
575
Age
25
Dmc 5 is actually an evolution of dmc, he takes all the good things dmc had and expanded upon... Camera angle, narrative (character talking and expanding the story during gameplay for example is taking directly from dmc) even some of the platforming and even when you kill the last enemy in an horde and there s a slow motion, all this things where originally introduced in dmc reboot, so DMC5 just incorporated all dmc good things a d expanded upon , and in my opinion one of this things was also vergil moveset and doppelganger
 

V's patron

be loyal to what matters
Joined
Sep 14, 2010
Messages
8,206
Reaction score
5,986
Points
12,915
Not gonna lie, I wouldn't mind Quicksilver being more like Prince of Persia. Where you can rewind, fast forward etc.

It could be broken but I'm a writer not a game designer. That's someone else's problem to take care off.

@DragonMaster2010 It's basically like DMC3 building on some aspects of 2. After all, Rebellion debuted in that game.
 
Last edited:

Hungry Alien

Well-known Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2019
Messages
115
Reaction score
107
Points
165
Age
24
More than discarding he just expanded upon dmc 1, for example vergil being dead at the end of dmc 1 is not entirely true since his fate was pretty ambiguous, since the first time i saw that cutscene in dmc 1 i always thought vergil did teleported somewhere, other people think he died, official source always listed that as ambiguous
Itsuno simply revealed the answer in dmc 5, that vergil was not actually dead

The sparda weapon too being a memento from dante s father was also expanded in dmc 3 whit good explanation

So Itsuno just expanded on the world, even if things are sometimes incoherent, they can be put together if we use our imagination

Same fore vergil doppelganger

Things like This always happens in fantasy story, like in star wars, Lucas decided only later that Vader was Luke s dad, or when Tolkien retconned gollum ring from being just a normal ring whit power to be the ONE ring where all lord of the rings story is based
Retcon are present everywhere when telling a story, and they are necessary to expand the story for the better, unless you are called j k Rowling and you start writing the story you want by having everything in you're head from start to finish...

Also the holy water is probably blessed by some priest, and priest exist in dmc since we saw normal church in the anime, so Jesus Christ and his father God exist in dmc universe

And one last things, Dante fly at the end of dmc 5 prologue, to fight urizen he use devil trigger and fly directly into urizen face and try to break his shield whit rebellion, he literally stand there flying for a lot of second before urizen destroyes his sword... So dante can fly before acquiring sin dt, and as I say before dmc 2 is Canon so he can fly, but in order to tell a story you also have to not do this sort of things, and let character do stuff in order for the story to progress , same reason why Gandalf didn't fly whit the eagle and burn the ring directly, lord of the rings would not have existed

if dante would have used his power at full in every game actually every game would not have existed or ended pretty quickly, he does use his full power in dmc 2 and look what happens lol

After thinking about the Doppelganger, I realized that it must be linked to Vergil's Summoned Swords. The Doppelganger is blue and transparent like the Summoned Swords, unlike the one Dante us in DMC 3 which is actually another identical Dante appearing. So the Doppelganger must be an advanced use of the Summoned Swords, and it would make sense since Vergil had some time to think before fighting Dante and he ate the fruit, gaining power from it. So the logical way would be that Vergil thought about how to exploit the fruit to enhance himself, and experimented before Dante arrived.

For Dante flying, in DMC 5, he is able to fly upward only by using the SDT as showed when he rush into Urizen's room and in the end where he and Vergil go to Hell by using the SDT form to fly. Also in DMC 1, he is flying while in the Sparda's form and in DMC 2, he use the Majin Form when flying. So to recap, Dante seems to be able to fly only when using one of the 3 forms which share some familiarity in their design. So my bet is that all of those form are similar in some way.
 

devil_inside123

The devil in the dark
Joined
Feb 17, 2015
Messages
363
Reaction score
107
Points
1,220
After thinking about the Doppelganger, I realized that it must be linked to Vergil's Summoned Swords. The Doppelganger is blue and transparent like the Summoned Swords, unlike the one Dante us in DMC 3 which is actually another identical Dante appearing. So the Doppelganger must be an advanced use of the Summoned Swords, and it would make sense since Vergil had some time to think before fighting Dante and he ate the fruit, gaining power from it. So the logical way would be that Vergil thought about how to exploit the fruit to enhance himself, and experimented before Dante arrived.

For Dante flying, in DMC 5, he is able to fly upward only by using the SDT as showed when he rush into Urizen's room and in the end where he and Vergil go to Hell by using the SDT form to fly. Also in DMC 1, he is flying while in the Sparda's form and in DMC 2, he use the Majin Form when flying. So to recap, Dante seems to be able to fly only when using one of the 3 forms which share some familiarity in their design. So my bet is that all of those form are similar in some way.
Actually in 2 he flys in a cutscene to save lucia from an explosion using his regular dt. All the other times he flew with alastor and nevan can be chalked up to gameplay only. But this was in a cutscene and without it lucia would have died. Thats what i mean though when i say its a little clear that the abilities of dante were tweaked when itsuno came in. Making his non dt stronger than it use to be but heavily nerfing the capabilities his DT gave him. Treating it as just a powerup rather than him actually transforming. One thing 2 did improve upon 1 imo is that turning into a full demon completely changes him. Giving him totally new combo strings he could only do while DT and wing you could freely use along with his guns transforming into gattlings in his wrists. In 3 4 and 5 dt doesnt add anything to your toolkit but a damage and speed boost and a few powered up versions of moves. Until 5 when his sin dt turns you into a full fledged demon instead of the human demon hybrid looking dt weve been getting since dmc3. Not that i dont think its cool.
 

Vergil95

Might controls everything, and without strength, y
Joined
Jun 15, 2018
Messages
801
Reaction score
214
Points
575
Age
25
To everyone who were complaining about vergil using doppelganger, they explained it in his file in dmc 5 special edition, go take a look at his doppelganger for info about it
 

Thestormthatisapproaching

Well-known Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2021
Messages
61
Reaction score
9
Points
50
Age
20
Just wondering what the general consensus is on vergil adoptijg moves such as doppleganger and portals from DmC vergil? The portal thing i can understand since yamatos thing has always been cutting between the demon and human worlds (even if it was never this literal) but the doppleganger ability leaves a sour taste in my mouth. Only because its something hes never done before but now its being treated just as his "thing" like summoned swords. Only justification i can see is if you headcanon that neros "stand" dt in 4 is a primitive offshoot of vergils ability to do. Idk what do yall think?

is that a jojo refrance
 

Thestormthatisapproaching

Well-known Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2021
Messages
61
Reaction score
9
Points
50
Age
20
well you see how dante got "sword formation" because he got sin dt (or might be because he got dsd ) and how his doppelganger looks like his sind dt and not like his base form like it does in DmC dante got sword formation for his sin dt and verfil gets doppelganger
 

Goldsickle

Well-known Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2009
Messages
1,487
Reaction score
1,348
Points
4,565
In order to balance things out, they made it so that Vergil's Air Trick has far more range than Dante's Air Trick.
Sure, you need to peg the enemy with a Mirage Blade first but once its on, there's almost no escape.

I can't exactly measure the length of Vergil's Air Trick but I feel like it's three times the length of Dante's version.
Just sucks that the Mirage Blades counts as a "Gun" attack, so enemies like Baphomet and Lusachia can deflect it with their shields, from what I remember.
 
Top