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Vergil getting DmC vergils moves

devil_inside123

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Just wondering what the general consensus is on vergil adoptijg moves such as doppleganger and portals from DmC vergil? The portal thing i can understand since yamatos thing has always been cutting between the demon and human worlds (even if it was never this literal) but the doppleganger ability leaves a sour taste in my mouth. Only because its something hes never done before but now its being treated just as his "thing" like summoned swords. Only justification i can see is if you headcanon that neros "stand" dt in 4 is a primitive offshoot of vergils ability to do. Idk what do yall think?
 

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I'm not against it.
 

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It's not a big deal to me, Doppelganger fits him.
 

berto

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Yeah, I saw. I recognized some of them, considering I'm playing the DLC right now. I don't think they've very dynamic looking, though.
 

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I mean, I don't mind the concept too much I guess. I do mind the animations looking similar to DmC Vergil though. They lack that "oomph", that bursty, lethal feel that he had in 3. He also looks more clumsy and inexperienced with those animations, a far cry from the precise, firm swordsman he was portrayed as when he was first made playable.
 

ef9dante_oSsshea

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I am iffy about doppleganger, I was with DmC vergil even

I always felt if doppelganger was to come back then it should have been to dante, along with quicksilver

Since he absorbed the powers and should never have lost them

Even more so in 5 as imagine vergil and dante's doppelgangers fighting each other too

It isn't a deal breaker for me though, ideally I'd love for vergil to have his super judgement cut move from the boss fight at the end of DMC3, and expand on that games moves for him instead

But beggars can't be choosers
 

Lain

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It doesn't bother me.

What does bother me is the lack of new moves.
 

Vergil95

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No problem whit it, i like vergil dmc move, also i don't see why everyone are against his doppelganger move, i don't see why vergil shouldn't use it when his brother dante literally uses doppelganger in dmc 3 but hey that s OK because it's dmc 3 but everything related to dmc it's not ok lol
 
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Foxtrot94

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i don't see why vergil shouldn't use it when his brother dante literally uses doppelganger in dmc 3

Ok, and? Just because Dante could then Vergil automatically is entitled to it as well? It's not an innate ability for the twins, Dante got it from a boss fight. Vergil just had it pulled out of his backside for the sake of a DmC reference with no justification as to how he has it.

I'm not saying I'm against him having it, but implying that it makes sense for him to have it just because Dante had it in the past is not a good argument.

but hey that s OK because it's dmc 3 but everything related to dmc it's not ok lol

No it's not a matter of "DMC3 good DmC bad", it's simply that Dante having Doppelganger in 3 was justified cause we saw him getting it from a boss, whereas there's no canon explanation or reason as to why Vergil has it now. Even in DmC, Quicksilver and Doppelganger were somewhat contextualized.
 

Vergil95

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Ok, and? Just because Dante could then Vergil automatically is entitled to it as well? It's not an innate ability for the twins, Dante got it from a boss fight. Vergil just had it pulled out of his backside for the sake of a DmC reference with no justification as to how he has it.

I'm not saying I'm against him having it, but implying that it makes sense for him to have it just because Dante had it in the past is not a good argument.



No it's not a matter of "DMC3 good DmC bad", it's simply that Dante having Doppelganger in 3 was justified cause we saw him getting it from a boss, whereas there's no canon explanation or reason as to why Vergil has it now. Even in DmC, Quicksilver and Doppelganger were somewhat contextualized.
Vergil acquired this ability after eating the fruit and than combining his demon half and human half again, just like he did whit his sin devil trigger form, it was pretty clear
 

Foxtrot94

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Vergil acquired this ability after eating the fruit and than combining his demon half and human half again, just like he did whit his sin devil trigger form, it was pretty clear

Was it? Cause I see no correlation between eating the fruit and acquiring Doppelganger. Sin DT is more justifiable, cause the fruit gives you a huge power boost, which is manifested in the form of Sin DT, fine. But nowhere does it say or show that it grants new abilities. Urizen himself didn't gain new stuff, just got more powerful.

And, as far as recombining with his human half, again, why would that grant Doppelganger? Because he was split before? That'd be kind of a stretch compared to how Dante got it, from absorbing the soul of a demon who is literally a doppelganger.
Bottom line is, however you wanna slice it, the way Dante gets that stuff in DMC3 will always make infinitely more sense than whatever explanation you might come up with for Vergil in 5.
 

Vergil95

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Was it? Cause I see no correlation between eating the fruit and acquiring Doppelganger. Sin DT is more justifiable, cause the fruit gives you a huge power boost, which is manifested in the form of Sin DT, fine. But nowhere does it say or show that it grants new abilities. Urizen himself didn't gain new stuff, just got more powerful.

And, as far as recombining with his human half, again, why would that grant Doppelganger? Because he was split before? That'd be kind of a stretch compared to how Dante got it, from absorbing the soul of a demon who is literally a doppelganger.
Bottom line is, however you wanna slice it, the way Dante gets that stuff in DMC3 will always make infinitely more sense than whatever explanation you might come up with for Vergil in 5.
Becoming more powerful = acquiring new ability lol
Sin devil trigger is a new ability in the end
Why is ok for vergil to acquire sin dt (the most powerful transformation in the entire dmc universe) whit the fruit but a mear doppelganger that probably even nero can do is not?
Jesus Christ vergil eaten the most powerful fruit in the entire dmc universe and manage to reach dante power level something dante had to acquire whit a lot of effort and year, but nope doppelganger cannot be acquired whit the fruit XD dude came on
 
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Foxtrot94

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Becoming more powerful = acquiring new ability lol

Once again, I don't see the logic there. A power increase is one thing, acquiring a new ability out of the blue (pun intended) is another. Unless that ability is innate, like Devil Trigger or its forms. Dante also got a power boost in 3, but he only unlocked the DT form, not an "external" ability that he never had the capability to perform before. He only got those by absorbing the souls of foes who possessed those very powers.

Why sin dt is OK but a mear doppelganger that probably even nero can do is not?

Because it doesn't make sense. Getting a DT form after a power boost adheres to what we've seen before in the series, getting something like DG all of a sudden doesn't. Again, the way Dante got it in 3 makes sense, as said above.
 

Vergil95

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Once again, I don't see the logic there. A power increase is one thing, acquiring a new ability out of the blue (pun intended) is another. Unless that ability is innate, like Devil Trigger or its forms. Dante also got a power boost in 3, but he only unlocked the DT form, not an "external" ability that he never had the capability to perform before. He only got those by absorbing the souls of foes who possessed those very powers.



Because it doesn't make sense. Again, the way Dante got it in 3 makes sense, as said above.
It dose make sense, vergil eaten the fruit and acquired new ability like sin dt an doppelganger...
For you it make sense instead for him to perform teleportation and summon sword out of nowhere in past dmc? The answer is simple because vergil or dante can perform ability by simply trying to learn them or do, like dante is trying to imitate vergil power whit Yamato in dmc 4 whitout having to absorb anything
There is no need to acquire the ability lol
Vergil and Dante are the most powerful being in the dmc universe for Crist sake, you think vergil is uncapable or stupid to not perform a mear copy of himself lol

When he became urizen he completely acquired new ability, like firing bullet or other things from his hand, but nope doppelganger is stupid, making an image of himself is stupid lol you seem to think dante and vergil are two idiot that can't try yo perform or do stuff whitout acquiring the ability from other, that simply for gameplay purpose, to let you feel the growing up of the protagonist , like dante not using his quicksilver style or doppelganger in future game or story set after dmc 3
 

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Becoming more powerful = acquiring new ability lol
Sin devil trigger is a new ability in the end
Why sin dt is OK but a mear doppelganger that probably even nero can do is not?

Because becoming more powerful =/= gaining a new ability instantly. With new strenght, one might open up to new possibilities, but you don't just gain it from gaining strength. The way Dante get it in DMC 3 make sense in the game because he fought a demon with this ability, then "absorbed" him, gaining the ability in the process. Vergil eat a fruit, became more powerful, but the fruit isn't related at all to the Doppelganger. That plus the fact that the Doppelganger on Vergil is a reboot idea makes for a unnatural introduction, and DMC 5 choose to not talk about it to avoid focus on that.

If for instance, Urizen was able to duplicate himself during the third fight, it would make sense. Even better, if Urizen gained the ability to create ghost-like reflection of his mind due to cheer willpower and the strength granted by the fruit, it would be even better since it wouldn't just be the reboot Doppelganger slapped on Vergil, but rather a new ability inspired from the reboot and something different from Dante's Doppelganger. That would make for a natural introduction to this new ability for Vergil. But instead, Vergil just pop it out of nowhere during the fight, and we never talk about it again. That's bad introduction for an ability and only create confusion for the player.
 

Vergil95

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Because becoming more powerful =/= gaining a new ability instantly. With new strenght, one might open up to new possibilities, but you don't just gain it from gaining strength. The way Dante get it in DMC 3 make sense in the game because he fought a demon with this ability, then "absorbed" him, gaining the ability in the process. Vergil eat a fruit, became more powerful, but the fruit isn't related at all to the Doppelganger. That plus the fact that the Doppelganger on Vergil is a reboot idea makes for a unnatural introduction, and DMC 5 choose to not talk about it to avoid focus on that.

If for instance, Urizen was able to duplicate himself during the third fight, it would make sense. Even better, if Urizen gained the ability to create ghost-like reflection of his mind due to cheer willpower and the strength granted by the fruit, it would be even better since it wouldn't just be the reboot Doppelganger slapped on Vergil, but rather a new ability inspired from the reboot and something different from Dante's Doppelganger. That would make for a natural introduction to this new ability for Vergil. But instead, Vergil just pop it out of nowhere during the fight, and we never talk about it again. That's bad introduction for an ability and only create confusion for the player.
I think the only stupid things is us talking about an ability
summoned sword, teleportation and other came out of nowhere, there is no need for an explanation lol they are just vergil ability introduced in dmc 1, why should we ask how in the hell he get that? Lol Who gives a **** it doesn't create confusion, you think player where confused by doppelganger when fighting vergil? (nobody gives a ****) ... Dante don't use style in dmc 1 and 2 yet he does in 3 and 4, are you going to ask yourself for an explanation on why he didn't use his style like tryckster or royal guard in that games? Style that could have helped him a lot out there especially in dmc 1...
Also why don't you ask yourself how dante can use that 4 style that come completely out of his ass?

Oh yeah native ability lol (stupid excuse) but magically he don't use them in dmc 1 and 2 XD
It's just a game dude, ability arreintroduced out of nowhere in many games, there is no need of explaining anything it's just for gameplay purpose
 
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Hungry Alien

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It dose make sense, vergil eaten the fruit and acquired new ability like sin dt an doppelganger...
For you it make sense instead for him to perform teleportation and summon sword out of nowhere in past dmc? The answer is simple because vergil or dante can perform ability by simply trying to learn them or do, like dante is trying to imitate vergil power whit Yamato in dmc 4 whitout having to absorb anything
There is no need to acquire the ability lol
Vergil and Dante are the most powerful being in the dmc universe for Crist sake, you think vergil is uncapable or stupid to not perform a mear copy of himself lol

When he became urizen he completely acquired new ability, like firing bullet or other things from his hand, but nope doppelganger is stupid, making an image of himself is stupid lol you seem to think dante and vergil are two idiot that can't try yo perform or do stuff whitout acquiring the ability from other, that simply for gameplay purpose, to let you feel the growing up of the protagonist , like dante not using his quicksilver style or doppelganger in future game or story set after dmc 3

Urizen gaining new abilities from the Qliphoth or just being Urizen doesn't make sense either. To me, it was decided only to try and hide the fact that Urizen is Vergil's demonic part by making him not use Vergil's techniques. But in the end, it is just a bad decision since it damages the coherence of the DMC universe. And again, it could have been avoided by stating that Urizen absorbed the blood of those demons that are near the Qliphoth roots, and from that he learned some of their attacks. If the game shows you that the Qliphoth allow his master to gain power from the absorbed blood, then it make sense. But the game never expand on his universe or try to establish rules to stabilize the coherence of the universe, and even worse often break his own rule by introducing things in contradiction to past things (Yamato open portals in DMC 5, so why did Vergil walk to the top of the tower in DMC 3 ? Sparda makes Dante the representation of Sparda in DMC 1, but not in DMC 5. The list goes on)

DMC 5 is overall a prime example on how not to manage a fantasy world. It often contradict the past games, and introduce things without any regard on how it is introduced or if it make sense, counting only on the "wow" effect because it looks cool and stylish. That's like a kid that try so hard to be cool, only to look cringe at the end.
 

Vergil95

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Urizen gaining new abilities from the Qliphoth or just being Urizen doesn't make sense either. To me, it was decided only to try and hide the fact that Urizen is Vergil's demonic part by making him not use Vergil's techniques. But in the end, it is just a bad decision since it damages the coherence of the DMC universe. And again, it could have been avoided by stating that Urizen absorbed the blood of those demons that are near the Qliphoth roots, and from that he learned some of their attacks. If the game shows you that the Qliphoth allow his master to gain power from the absorbed blood, then it make sense. But the game never expand on his universe or try to establish rules to stabilize the coherence of the universe, and even worse often break his own rule by introducing things in contradiction to past things (Yamato open portals in DMC 5, so why did Vergil walk to the top of the tower in DMC 3 ? Sparda makes Dante the representation of Sparda in DMC 1, but not in DMC 5. The list goes on)

DMC 5 is overall a prime example on how not to manage a fantasy world. It often contradict the past games, and introduce things without any regard on how it is introduced or if it make sense, counting only on the "wow" effect because it looks cool and stylish. That's like a kid that try so hard to be cool, only to look cringe at the end.
And dante using style in dmc 3, 4 and 5 while he dosent use it in dmc 1 and 2 it's ok? Lol

It's just a game don't overthink about stupid ability, the series was already incoerent years and years ago lol
 

Foxtrot94

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it's just for gameplay purpose

Yeah which is why I said I don't mind the concept in itself and which is why I also never complained about Dante's Styles from 3 onwards. I was only responding to your point that it makes sense for Vergil to have it because Dante had in DMC3. That point is invalid, imo, because in DMC3 there is actually a good, canon reason shown in a cutscene as to why he gets to have DG. If you wanna argue that you don't necessarily need a justification for a new gameplay ability, fine, it is a good point, all I'm saying is don't use the "Dante had it" argument as a reason why Vergil is automatically entitled to it as well. It's like saying that, I dunno, Earth should have a ring just because Saturn does. I'm not against Vergil having a Doppelganger, I'm only contesting your reasoning as to why he should have it.
 

Hungry Alien

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I think the only stupid things is us talking about an ability
summoned sword, teleportation and other came out of nowhere, there is no need for an explanation lol they are just vergil ability introduced in dmc 1, why should we ask how in the hell he get that? Lol Who gives a **** it doesn't create confusion, you think player where confused by doppelganger when fighting vergil? (nobody gives a ****) ... Dante don't use style in dmc 1 and 2 yet he does in 3 and 4, are you going to ask yourself for an explanation on why he didn't use his style like tryckster or royal guard in that games? Style that could have helped him a lot out there especially in dmc 1...
Also why don't you ask yourself how dante can use that 4 style that come completely out of his ass?

Oh yeah native ability lol (stupid excuse) but magically he don't use them in dmc 1 and 2 XD
It's just a game dude, ability arreintroduced out of nowhere in many games, there is no need of explaining anything it's just for gameplay purpose

Teleportation and Summoned Swords are introduced alongside Vergil, so the player knows that he probably learned how to do it in the past. We never saw him before, so it make sense to have him know some tricks since he is a demonic fighter. For Dante's style, they aren't a direct ability, but more of a martial mastery, so it isn't necessary to show them in cutscene since they are part of how Dante fights.

Also, you might not give a **** about the coherence of the DMC universe, but then why are you still talking about it ? If we talk about it, it's maybe because we actually like the DMC serie don't you think ?
 
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