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Venom:Let there be Carnage

Morgan

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They can probably try Man-Wolf after Morbius comes out, because the vampire-werewolf juxtaposition is too good to pass up.
 

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These are obscure Spider-themed villians that you could pit Venom against. These might work as secondary antagonists. These two could even be a father and son duo.

In the Ultimate Comics, Eddie's parents were scientists who worked with Peter's. They also died under mysterious circumstances. I imagined if Eddie popped up in the Garfield movies, they would've played on that connection. So you could have that be a movie plot. Eddie has to find out who killed his parents because of something in the present. He and Spiderman could even work together on it. They bury the hatchet or teamup etc.

You could just have the Tarantula's above be behind it. There's also the Chameleon who had a role in it. The actual culprit was this guy-


I don't see the MCU using him anytime soon although Red Skull ain't the only Skull around.

There's this guy-

And this guy-

And even this guy-

So maybe Sony could work out a deal etc.

So you have a few options etc.

This is my pitch for Venom 3 or Venom V Spiderman.
 
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Morgan

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I don't see the MCU using him anytime soon although Red Skull ain't the only Skull around.

There's this guy-

And this guy-

And even this guy-
What are any of those guys going to accomplish except get people annoyed that they look like Red Skull/Black Mask ripoffs now that better known mask-wearing/skull-headed characters hit the big screen? Well, except for that last guy, who's just going to be confused for a Ghost Rider ripoff and even has his entry say that he shouldn't be confused for Ghost Rider, even when he's was called on one issue. Blazing Skull would have to belong to a period movie set in the 1940s. If they went with him smuggling himself into Nazi Germany , the Captain America (and Red Skull) comparisons would be right there waiting to happen. Or they could involve him in the Second Sino-Japanese War and have the Nazis in the background.

Point is, Blazing Skull has no place in a "vs Venom" movie. He's not even a villain.
 

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@Morgan

I thought the connection with the others skulls would help bolster Albert if they decide to use him.

With Blazing Skull, I was more interested in using the species he came from than the WW2 one specifically.

Having Albert become a Blazing Skull is a way to play with "White Savior" Tropes that got flack in recent years.

Most villians have legacy characters so it gives you more options. If you can't use Kraven you could use one of his kids instead.

I don't know if putting a Sony lead up against a MCU villian is a practical idea but it is a fun one.
 

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@Morgan

I thought the connection with the others skulls would help bolster Albert if they decide to use him.
It just sounds like clogging up the property and turning it into another Spider-Man 3. We don't need this many Skulls just to shoehorn a plot about the parents Eddie never mentioned and the murder that didn't come up until after two movies into the character's run. I mean, it's just like Tony being upset Bucky killed his mom when his character arc revolves around his father, and a Ctrl+F of "Maria" in the scripts to the entire trilogy [ ] [ ] [ ] of Iron Man movies results in literally one result, from Howard in a pre-recorded tape.

With Blazing Skull, I was more interested in using the species he came from than the WW2 one specifically.

Having Albert become a Blazing Skull is a way to play with "White Savior" Tropes that got flack in recent years.
So, this "plays with the White Savior trope", not by simply not adhering to the trope, and not by not portraying the White character as the savior of the "savage tribe" because they're not savages and they don't need saving, and not by omitting the bit about the White character being "the Chosen One",

but by giving the power to an Evil Communist murderer? Implying the tribe of Skull Men are either evil (by association or by design) for abetting a villain, really poor judges of character for teaching him those skills if they didn't know his nature, or otherwise their lore and arts were potentially forcibly taken from them and used against their wishes a.k.a. literal cultural appropriation?

I'm going to politely assume you didn't think that through.
 

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@Morgan
I don't mean to use all 3 of the Skulls at once. I would've just picked one to use as Albert's main supervillian ID. Or just use Black Tarantula instead which is probably simpler.

For the Blazing Skull idea, I didn't think that far ahead but I was leaning towards the last option you mentioned. I was thinking more like Doctor Who where the main villian called the Master just teams up with a seperate alien race in order to do something dastardly. Some times by force, some times by mutual benefit etc.
 

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@V's patron Yeah, the Tarantulas would be a lot easier to streamline. Given their designs, the symbiote could get its own pattern from them and not Spider-Man explicitly.

... You have to think ahead, though. If you know enough about the White Savior trope to want to """play""" with it, it behooves you to consider that the answer isn't Literally Colonialism™ or making the tribe otherwise directly benefit a villain of their own will. These are practitioners of a mysterious art that live under caves in China. It's not that hard to make it non-objectionable. The option is right there: have Mark Todd, not a villain, learn the art of having a friggin' flaming head without saddling him with a Chosen One story or how the forces of destiny led him to that spot so he could get the power to Right All The Wrongs In The World or whatever. Like, why not add Mark Todd? He's a reporter. His coverage of the Sino-Japanese War and WWII in general (including the part where he smuggles himself into dangerous places just to get the news) could have made his reporter persona Eddie's inspiration or something like that.
 

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@V's patron Yeah, the Tarantulas would be a lot easier to streamline. Given their designs, the symbiote could get its own pattern from them and not Spider-Man explicitly.

... You have to think ahead, though. If you know enough about the White Savior trope to want to """play""" with it, it behooves you to consider that the answer isn't Literally Colonialism™ or making the tribe otherwise directly benefit a villain of their own will. These are practitioners of a mysterious art that live under caves in China. It's not that hard to make it non-objectionable. The option is right there: have Mark Todd, not a villain, learn the art of having a friggin' flaming head without saddling him with a Chosen One story or how the forces of destiny led him to that spot so he could get the power to Right All The Wrongs In The World or whatever. Like, why not add Mark Todd? He's a reporter. His coverage of the Sino-Japanese War and WWII in general (including the part where he smuggles himself into dangerous places just to get the news) could have made his reporter persona Eddie's inspiration or something like that.
Lesson learned.

I'm not 100% about the parent thing. I just saw it as something to use if Sony wanted to salvage the Amazing Spiderman stuff. In fact I think Eddie and Peter teaming up to solve the dissapearance but having a fallout over where their research takes them was how to bring Venom in.

that could always be scrapped or simplified.
 

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If you can't use Kraven
They're using Kraven.

It's Aaron Taylor-Johnson. He doesn't do a half-bad Eastern European accent, for a Brit, and there's a good chance he works out/bulks up for Kraven. Now I have to go see Savages and Nocturnal Animals to get an idea of what his villainous or morally conflicted roles look like.
 

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They're using Kraven.

It's Aaron Taylor-Johnson. He doesn't do a half-bad Eastern European accent, for a Brit, and there's a good chance he works out/bulks up for Kraven. Now I have to go see Savages and Nocturnal Animals to get an idea of what his villainous or morally conflicted roles look like.
My post was written before this news and just a hypothetical. ;)

On the Kraven casting-

I rather a Russian actor do it but he's a decent choice. I was hoping for Hugh Jackman or Karl Urban.

I guess they are going Young Kraven?

I think it's gonna be a villian's origin story like Joker, Maleficent, Cruella, Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul etc.

A bigger breakdown-
Kraven felt like a reference to the short story "the greatest game". It centered around around a hunter who sought bigger challenges. So he started to hunt other men for sport.

So you could have Kraven start hunting supernatural beings. Spiderman was considered a Totem in the early 2000s. So just take of a few of Spiderman villians and make them Totems of other animals. It also builds up that mythology in the background etc.

Kraven doesn't have to be that good as a person. These Totems just have to be worse.

Eventually he'll cross a moral line in his quest, becoming a villian in the eyes of the audience. Or that's the goal of the story.

Or maybe Johnson is playing Kraven's son who they could play around with more. They don't have to commit to villiany with his kid.

 

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Or maybe Johnson is playing Kraven's son who they could play around with more. They don't have to commit to villiany with his kid.
What kind of b.s. copout is that? Lmao.

No. They're going full Kraven.

Here,

In the comics, Kraven debuted all the way back in 1964’s The Amazing Spider-Man No. 15, with the character created by Spider-Man co-creators Stan Lee and Steve Ditko. The big-game hunter decided to target the most dangerous foe he could imagine: Spider-Man. During his long tenure in the comics, Kraven is known for appearing in the classic 1980s storyline “Kraven’s Last Hunt,” in which the villain succeeded in defeating Spider-Man, burying him alive and assuming his identity.

News of the Kraven the Hunter casting comes as Sony continues to build out its budding universe, with upcoming installments including Tom Hardy’s Venom: Let There Be Carnage, due out Sept. 24 and Jared Leto’s Morbius, slated for Jan. 21, 2022.

They're not talking about the illegit son that debuted in 1997.

Do general audiences even know who that is without immediately defaulting to the more iconic Kraven the First?

These are the same audiences that lost their minds at Jesse Eisenberg playing Lex, even when the character says in plain English that "My father put the Lex in front of the Corp," meaning Jesse played Alexander Luthor Jr and not Sr, but they still whinged about how OOC his take was, and incessantly fancasted Bryan Cranston to take his place like that isn't the most uninspired vanilla-flavor nonsense ever.

They didn't understand Lex Luthor Jr when Junior's been around since the 80s and was in TV a couple of times, and that's WB. Sony isn't slick enough to think they can get away with "this is Kraven's son" without putting up the first Kraven. That's why they didn't go for Mac Gargan or Flash Thompson as Venom even though they've also hosted the symbiote; it's about the iconic, easily accessible interpretation.
 

absolitude

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It centered around around a hunter who sought bigger challenges. So he started to hunt other men for sport.

So you could have Kraven start hunting supernatural beings.


So how is Kraven actually in the comics? Every fanart i came accros gave this brooding-sad-loner-wise-deep thinker-melancholistic whatever vibe to it..
 

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So how is Kraven actually in the comics? Every fanart i came accros gave this brooding-sad-loner-wise-deep thinker-melancholistic whatever vibe to it..
I just saw him as an proud and arrogant thrillseeker.

Here is some more info-




 
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Morgan

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So how is Kraven actually in the comics? Every fanart i came accros gave this brooding-sad-loner-wise-deep thinker-melancholistic whatever vibe to it..

He's proud, and tends to have a somewhat poetic feel to his speech, but that's just me.

Let me pull up an actual comic. Best to hear it from the man himself.

I am Kraven -- the beast. My mind is rage and glory. My heart is fire and pride. My body is grace and power.

I am Kravinov -- the man. An old man, now -- though few would believe it.

Just a child when my parents came to this country, shortly after the overthrow of the Czar-- some seventy odd years ago.

There was no more room in Russia for aristocrats. For culture. For honor. For human dignity. But all those things were bred in my bones, long before the Trotskys and Lenins dragged my homeland into the pit.

Dignity? Honor? Where are such qualities today? All the world, it seems, has followed Russia's sad example. Were my parents alive today, they would look upon this frightened, wounded animal called civilization without recognition -- and with great fear. And great disgust.

I am Kraven -- the Hunter. I have found dignity, not in the cities, but in the jungles. I have found honor, not in the civilized, but in the primal. I have found morality, I have found meaning -- in the hunt.

But I cannot escape Time forever. Herbs and roots and potions cannot rejuvenate a dying spirit -- or heal a heart crushed by the weight of a corrupted Age.

I will die soon. I must die soon.

But not yet.
 

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I just saw him as an proud and arrogant thrillseeker.

Here is some more info-




He's proud, and tends to have a somewhat poetic feel to his speech, but that's just me.

Let me pull up an actual comic. Best to hear it from the man himself.

I think it's safe to say i was kinda not wrong for nitpicking some bunch of fanarts.


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i mean look at how brooooooding they look..

Anyway, I think this is good casting, especially if i'm referencing ATJ from the movie savage, that was a proud and confident character if i remember correctly.
 

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I think it's safe to say i was kinda not wrong for nitpicking some bunch of fanarts.

i mean look at how brooooooding they look.
I get your point, but you're picking photo manips that trend towards "Jason Momoa looks badass and he should be Kraven because he's big and badass" (and they source Justice League or Aquaman photos where Arthur is depicted as serious and brooding) or "Kraven himself is a badass, and badasses brood" with ATJ depicted as serious and brooding, plus it's easier to photomanipulate a "neutral expression" than anything dynamic.

Kraven the character has actually looked like this

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and like this

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in comics. Look at the brooooooding on the first one!

I mean, it's not impossible for him to brood or look deep/sad/melancholistic-- the passage I quoted was from Kraven's Last Hunt, and it's legit him deep-thinking and monologuing to himself about his legacy, his parents, his relationship with Spider-Man, and his own impending death, and the panel art is him looking into a coffin dejectedly and gazing on the Symbiote Spider-Man costume with literal tears in his eyes. .

Also note: Think about the impression you'd get about DMC itself if you looked at just the fanart?

Fanartists generally don't concern themselves that much about simply repeating the original work's scenarios, and it's more like they use the characters as "models" for whatever concept they want to explore that's at best tangentially related. It couldn't get any more obvious than when bitching about the reboot hit its peak, and a post on Tumblr made the rounds about "this is the REAL DMC that fans want, not this reboot garbage".

Was it actual screenshots of the games? Was it videos showing flashy combos executed in smokin' sick style? No. It was fanart.

What was the fanart about? Umm.... Vergil submerged in a water tank, looking up with a "My God, why hast thou forsaken me" expression with air bubbles rising from his mouth.... some other piece involving Vergil and blue butterflies, if it wasn't the exact same piece... and I can't actually remember the rest, but like, none of it actually expressed what DMC is, it was just gothic and using the characters as models.

Other notable "What does this have to do with the game?" fanarts I can think of from the top of my head include: any art made prior to DMC5 (and not involving Nero) where Dante, Vergil, Sparda, etc, are depicted with black "avian" wings as if they were Sephiroth or Jin Kazama, instead of the bat-like or draconic-type wings they actually have; Wolfina's art with Dante and Vergil depicted as centaurs... with avian wings; anything with explicit shipping; anything about Vergil being a good dad or being a dad at all; anything with incest, and the incest part is so prevalent that Rae / Off Record had to apologize for not putting incest in her art because she generally isn't interested in Vergil or what he represents in the game or the fandom to begin with, and she gravitates towards Credo instead. That's sad.

Anyway ATJ is good casting.
 

absolitude

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I get your point, but you're picking photo manips that trend towards "Jason Momoa looks badass and he should be Kraven because he's big and badass" (and they source Justice League or Aquaman photos where Arthur is depicted as serious and brooding) or "Kraven himself is a badass, and badasses brood" with ATJ depicted as serious and brooding, plus it's easier to photomanipulate a "neutral expression" than anything dynamic.

Kraven the character has actually looked like this

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and like this

You must be registered for see images


in comics. Look at the brooooooding on the first one!

I mean, it's not impossible for him to brood or look deep/sad/melancholistic-- the passage I quoted was from Kraven's Last Hunt, and it's legit him deep-thinking and monologuing to himself about his legacy, his parents, his relationship with Spider-Man, and his own impending death, and the panel art is him looking into a coffin dejectedly and gazing on the Symbiote Spider-Man costume with literal tears in his eyes. .

Also note: Think about the impression you'd get about DMC itself if you looked at just the fanart?

Fanartists generally don't concern themselves that much about simply repeating the original work's scenarios, and it's more like they use the characters as "models" for whatever concept they want to explore that's at best tangentially related. It couldn't get any more obvious than when bitching about the reboot hit its peak, and a post on Tumblr made the rounds about "this is the REAL DMC that fans want, not this reboot garbage".

Was it actual screenshots of the games? Was it videos showing flashy combos executed in smokin' sick style? No. It was fanart.

What was the fanart about? Umm.... Vergil submerged in a water tank, looking up with a "My God, why hast thou forsaken me" expression with air bubbles rising from his mouth.... some other piece involving Vergil and blue butterflies, if it wasn't the exact same piece... and I can't actually remember the rest, but like, none of it actually expressed what DMC is, it was just gothic and using the characters as models.

Other notable "What does this have to do with the game?" fanarts I can think of from the top of my head include: any art made prior to DMC5 (and not involving Nero) where Dante, Vergil, Sparda, etc, are depicted with black "avian" wings as if they were Sephiroth or Jin Kazama, instead of the bat-like or draconic-type wings they actually have; Wolfina's art with Dante and Vergil depicted as centaurs... with avian wings; anything with explicit shipping; anything about Vergil being a good dad or being a dad at all; anything with incest, and the incest part is so prevalent that Rae / Off Record had to apologize for not putting incest in her art because she generally isn't interested in Vergil or what he represents in the game or the fandom to begin with, and she gravitates towards Credo instead. That's sad.

Anyway ATJ is good casting.

Well maybe not so much on the brooding part, it's more the sad looks and melancholic, wind blowing, hair flowing, cold cold weather with a lion-- But yea, i get your point too.

I know nothing bout Kraven, but surely a guy with an outfit like that wouldn't look sad or melancholic all the time like most of the fanarts. Everytime i commented asking, yo how's kraven in the comics actually? nobody answered, they seem to just jump the bandwagon of "Oh, kraven movie is being made, hurraaaaay". They could've at least make him like how they would do a Rambo is what i thought at the time --never knowing how Kraven is.

And i love that you mentioned dmc fanarts, because that is also what i think when i come accros the serious gloomy of em, i just "HAHA! DO YOU EVEN.. YOU FFFFFFFFFFF..". Another case is MCU fanart, especially the spiderman ones, gosh i shook my head one too many times, so damn dark.

But my main problem is, as a drawing enthusiast and hobbyist, this kinds of things gets on my nerves easily, like, maybe do some research before you get on it.

And oh, That second pic you displayed, is how i would be fine with a fanart of a character wearing such outfit called Kraven the hunter .
 

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I know nothing bout Kraven, but surely a guy with an outfit like that wouldn't look sad or melancholic all the time like most of the fanarts. Everytime i commented asking, yo how's kraven in the comics actually? nobody answered, they seem to just jump the bandwagon of "Oh, kraven movie is being made, hurraaaaay". They could've at least make him like how they would do a Rambo is what i thought at the time --never knowing how Kraven is.
So in your opinion, Kraven fanart is to Kraven the character what , then? Yes I am linking to Fact Fiend, because the video on Rambo just came out today. He's a pretty emotive and nuanced guy from what the comic showed. Maybe we'll see that instead of the usual MCU taint reducing villains to one-note caricatures (see: Whiplash).

And i love that you mentioned dmc fanarts, because that is also what i think when i come accros the serious gloomy of em, i just "HAHA! DO YOU EVEN.. YOU FFFFFFFFFFF..". Another case is MCU fanart, especially the spiderman ones, gosh i shook my head one too many times, so damn dark.

But my main problem is, as a drawing enthusiast and hobbyist, this kinds of things gets on my nerves easily, like, maybe do some research before you get on it.

And oh, That second pic you displayed, is how i would be fine with a fanart of a character wearing such outfit called Kraven the hunter.
I stay clear away from MCU Spidey fanart. I'm betting too much of it revolves around him dying to the Thanos Snap and something something Iron Man.
 

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So in your opinion, Kraven fanart is to Kraven the character what , then? Yes I am linking to Fact Fiend, because the video on Rambo just came out today. He's a pretty emotive and nuanced guy from what the comic showed. Maybe we'll see that instead of the usual MCU taint reducing villains to one-note caricatures (see: Whiplash).


I stay clear away from MCU Spidey fanart. I'm betting too much of it revolves around him dying to the Thanos Snap and something something Iron Man.
I actually prefer the first rambo movie, his character, the atmosphere and everything cinematic related in it. Never even bothered with the other two (and three i suppose). But the popular belief is that rambo is just that, one-note caricature of tough macho stoic silent dude bro war veteran like in the cartoons, can't help that, so i won't be mad if somebody made a fanart with that characteristic.

But at least the last Rambo movie was fine.

We're off topic btw.
 

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I thought this was a good list but I disagree with some of their reasoning. I'd probably avoid options #1 but I'd use the others.

Yes even Steel Spider ;).
 
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