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Urizen stronger then...Sparda?

Handsome Devil Sparda

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Now you all know what I’m talking about and how Urizen just pimps slaps all of the DMC team, you think that with Sparda he could easily have defeated Urizen with the power of Sparda, dose that mean like in DMC4, Dante was not worth wielding it like Sanctus? Or something else, let me know your guys thoughts
 

Morgan

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Who's "he" who could have easily defeated Urizen? Sparda? Why does the question segue into whether Dante is worthy?

They didn't put much thought into the power scaling except for what would make the story run, best not to think of it. Urizen overpowering the DMC team even with Sparda just by him sitting in a chair harvesting blood because the Yamato split Vergil into Demon and Human which he did out of his human side holding him back even though it's human blood that makes demons stronger therefore Vergil should have been stronger with his human side intact than as Urizen with 0 human parts to him but Urizen got stronger than he ever was and far stronger than Mundus by doing F all, enough for him to disrespect the Sparda (and his birthright power which he as Vergil spent his entire life trying to attain and surpass) by, well, sitting down and harvesting blood, but then reformed Vergil from V being half-dead merging with a nearly-dying Urizen is somehow stronger after reforming those nearly-dead halves than he was when he was whole but... near death.... thus why he split.... all of that makes perfect sense to the writers of the story. Whatever.
 
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Handsome Devil Sparda

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Who's "he" who could have easily defeated Urizen? Sparda? Why does the question segue into whether Dante is worthy?

They didn't put much thought into the power scaling except for what would make the story run, best not to think of it. Urizen overpowering the DMC team even with Sparda just by him sitting in a chair harvesting blood because the Yamato split Vergil into Demon and Human which he did out of his human side holding him back even though it's human blood that makes demons stronger therefore Vergil should have been stronger with his human side intact than as Urizen with 0 human parts to him but Urizen got stronger than he ever was and far stronger than Mundus by doing F all, enough for him to disrespect the Sparda (and his birthright power which he as Vergil spent his entire life trying to attain and surpass) by, well, sitting down and harvesting blood, but then reformed Vergil from V being half-dead merging with a nearly-dying Urizen is somehow stronger after reforming those nearly-dead halves than he was when he was whole but... near death.... thus why he split.... all of that makes perfect sense to the writers of the story. Whatever.
No I meant to say Dante also apparently Urizen has already been consuming blood from the humans becoming stronger but from what I understand, is once he eats the fruit from the Qlipthoth tree dose he come as Strong as Mundas but Dante defeated Mundas and with Spardas sword, it doesn’t make since Urizen wasn’t that strong yet
 

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Right. Yeah, like I said. The powerscaling is wonky in this series. Vergil went from being a scrub that got enslaved by Mundus to eating a fruit and becoming more powerful than a version of Dante that supposedly surpassed the power of Sparda or at least surpassed himself at the point he was using that power, therefore more powerful than his slaver, given that the game treats us with the early-game visual of Urizen shattering the Rebellion and disrespecting the Sparda sword, and Mundus's rise to power is explained as him similarly harvesting the blood of humans for the Qliphoth tree and eating the fruit except no explanation exists for Sparda so we're led to believe he was just naturally more powerful than Mundus even with the initial Qliphoth boost and, uh, he didn't realize it at all until he kicked Mundus's ass I guess, and also no one in Hell ever recognized that power as legitimate nor immediately stopped to worship Sparda instead even though we're told that demons value power and serve the most powerful devil which Sparda would've been at the time and they still hold that grudge 2000 years later, but this addition to the lore does no consideration for the previous history of the game since if Mundus successfully grew to power with the tree once, he literally could just do it again since the Qliphoth makes its summoner functionally invincible by feeding them blood and prepping them for the fruit and helped Vergil enough that the fully-realized Sparda couldn't even touch him so Mundus doing it in 1 would have mopped the floor with Dante who just had the Force Edge and only one half of the amulet and could never have gained a Sin DT in that course of events.

So Urizen being as strong as he was pre-Fruit makes no real sense without shifting everything else around it to hold the following statements as true

1. Dante in DMC1 is not at all more powerful, durable, or faster than he was in DMC3, he pretty much peaked at 19 when he beat his own twin.
2. Mundus overpowered Dante with some eye-spears and Dante's only saving grace was resonating with the Sparda sword and gaining his Dad's DT, but since Urizen with the Qliphoth is stronger than Dante with the Sparda and also broke Rebellion when Mundus at closer to full-power has no literal sword-shattering feat in his name on-screen, Mundus himself is not much stronger than a half-breed teenager. Sparda might also not be more powerful than his own half-breed sons.
3. We should have seen the above bastardization of powerscaling coming given that Arkham "[HAD] THE TRUE POWER OF SPARDAAAAAA" but couldn't defeat two half-breed teenagers when neither of them were even using their DT. That's not even a "just because Arkham is an evil human, he's unworthy" bit, the Sparda is just that useless now. Given that Jester in 3 was concerned with Vergil being able to best him at full power, Jester is now Mundus-tier.
4. That blurb about Dante in DMC4 possibly surpassing Sparda is bogus and a waste of words if not an outright lie printed on paper. His feats in 4 against the Savior are similarly dismissible since, again, he peaked at 19 when he beat Vergil in Hell. The Savior could have been beaten by a DMC3 Dante or a DMC3 Vergil given that it was ultimately put to rest by Nero, who was "as powerful as Dante was in DMC3" (quote unquote whatever director or developer said that, I CBA to look up names) or in Bingo's novel, stronger in raw power than Dante himself.
5. But also Nero five years later (or however much time passed between 4 and 5) gets overpowered by a near-death Vergil who's falling apart and staggering his way into Fortuna, but the guy ripped Nero's arm clean off at the elbow meaning Nero is not all that much stronger than a half-breed near-death teenager.
 

Handsome Devil Sparda

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So I was going to write a lot and even mention some points you gave that enlightened me but it just came down to a simple formula

Sparda vs Mundas = Sparda

Sparda vs Sparda = Sparda

lol either way Sparda wins
 

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Ah yes. I heard Sparda fought on both sides of the war and the other side lost. ;)

Edit:

Using my highly dangerous WMD (Weapon of Math Deduction), I present to you powerscaling in this form:

Devil May Cry 1
Sparda > Post-Qliphoth-Fruit Mundus (h.r.a. "Mundus")
Dante > Nero Angelo (best two out of three)
Dante > Nightmare + Trish
Dante + Sparda < Mundus
Dante + Awakened Sparda > Mundus
Weakened Mundus > Dante
Weakened Mundus < Dante + Trish

Devil May Cry 3
Dante + Rebellion + [A&R/Cerberus] < Vergil + Yamato
Dante + DT + Rebellion + [A&R/Cerberus/Nevan] = Motivated Vergil + DT + Yamato + Beowulf
Dante + DT + Rebellion + [A&R/Cerberus/Nevan/Beowulf] + Motivational Speech > Motivated Vergil + DT + Yamato + FE
Dante + DT + Rebellion + [A&R/Cerberus/Nevan/Beowulf/FE] + Motivational Speech ≥ Mundus?
Except
Mundus > Weakened Vergil
Mundus > DMC1 Dante + Sparda
Mundus > DMC1 Dante + [Alastor/Ifrit]
Mundus < DMC1 Dante + Awakened Sparda
Therefore at the very least
Dante + DT + Rebellion + [A&R/Cerberus/Nevan/Beowulf/FE] + Motivational Speech (h.r.a. "Endgame DMC3 Dante") > DMC1 Dante
If anything,
Arkham/Jester > Weakened Vergil
Not only that, but
Arkham > Weakened Dante + Vergil + Lady
Arkham + Sparda DT > Dante
Arkham + Sparda DT < Dante and Vergil
Therefore
Arkham/Jester > Mundus

Devil May Cry 4
Dante > Nero.
Except for when he doesn't. Then
Nero > Dante
while
Nero > Berial
Nero > Bael
Nero > Agnus
until
Nero < Agnus + Sneak Attack + Impalement
Nero + Reformed Yamato = Nero + DT
Nero + DT > Echidna
Nero + DT > Angelo Credo
Nero + DT > Angelo Agnus
while
Dante > Echidna
Dante > Dagon
Dante > Berial
Dante > Angelo Agnus
Dante > The Savior
Dante + Nero >>> The Savior
and especially
Nero > False Savior
Except
Nero + DT = Endgame DMC3 Dante? (dev/director statement)
Therefore
Nero = Endgame DMC3 Dante ≈ DMC4 Dante ≥ DMC1 Dante

which brings us to

Devil May Cry 5
Pre-Qliphoth-Fruit Urizen (h.r.a. "Urizen") > Everyone, when
Urizen = 1/2 Vergil
V = 1/2 Vergil
however
Weakened Vergil = Dying
Weakened Vergil > Nero
But if
Nero = Endgame DMC3 Dante ≈ DMC4 Dante ≥ DMC1 Dante
and
Nero > False Savior
Then
Weakened Vergil ≥ DMC1 Dante or
Weakened Vergil ≥ Mundus
at the very least,
Weakened Vergil > False Savior
therefore
Weakened Vergil ≥ Mundus > Weakened Vergil
But it also turns out that
Urizen > Nero
Urizen > Trish + Lady
Urizen > Dante + Rebellion
Urizen > Dante + Sparda
therefore
Urizen > Mundus, a.k.a. Urizen > Everyone
until
Dante + Rebellion + Sparda = Dante + Sin DT
so
Dante + Sin DT > Urizen
Dante + Sin DT > Urizen + Qliphoth Fruit
until
Dying Urizen + Dying V = Vergil
then
Vergil > Weakened Dante + Sin DT
until
Vergil + Sin DT ≈ Dante + Sin DT
but then
Motivated Nero ≈ Dante + Vergil
Motivated Nero + Bitchslap >>> Weakened Dante
Motivated Nero > Weakened Vergil
Vergil + Dante + Double Pimphand > Nero

and in conclusion
Vergil = Dante
Their Sin DTs > Sparda Sword
until Arkham comes back from the dead with a new powerup and breakdances the boys into oblivion or something.

Don't @ me, I don't make the rules.
 
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Hungry Alien

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The power level in this serie is dictacted by story convenience since DMC 5, that's why it's so messed up. Like Dante with DT is not able to pass Urizen shied, but somehow Nero can without DT. The Sparda is now useless despite being the center of every past DMC games (except 2). Urizen is the demon part of Vergil (therefore he should be weaker than regular Vergil), but by "absorbing blood via the Qliphoth", he not only match Dante, but completely overpowers him because the story need Dante to lose to create tension
 

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The power level in this serie is dictacted by story convenience since DMC 5, that's why it's so messed up. Like Dante with DT is not able to pass Urizen shied, but somehow Nero can without DT. The Sparda is now useless despite being the center of every past DMC games (except 2). Urizen is the demon part of Vergil (therefore he should be weaker than regular Vergil), but by "absorbing blood via the Qliphoth", he not only match Dante, but completely overpowers him because the story need Dante to lose to create tension
Wonky powerscaling started in 3, tbh. This is the series that expects us to believe that Dante's greatest rival and equal was the guy he beat when he was 19 after only having DT in a few hours whereas Vergil had his own DT for 10 years by that point, and Vergil is still a threat/equal to Dante even in his 40s when he looks and fights the same as ever just with a new fruit and guilty conscience give or take some trauma, on top of him spending more time half-dead/"not himself" than alive while Dante consistently gained experience and better fighting skill through the same span of time.

And Dante won in 3 because of Motivation and embracing his humanity even though ultimately his power in DMC5 (Sin DT) comes from reconciling his human and demon sides which he somehow had never done at all until then. This rejection of his demon side until he hit his 40s should've meant that he was handicapped in all of his fights before 5 by not having embraced both parts of his identity properly thus impairing his ability for his demon side to tap into the strength of his human side or vice versa, and he should've lost more battles, but that never ever factored in for any single game including and especially 3, where Lady has A) more human blood in her than Dante does and B) no conflict with her identity due to her blood and by the rules of 5 should overpower everybody, but she still took a backseat to her own journey and quest for vengeance.

And if Urizen can get a power boost simply by pumping himself with human blood before he embraces his humanity properly, then Vergil per se should've always had the upper hand on Dante in every one of their battles because clearly wins can happen in this series regardless of if anyone does any endgame soul-searching whatsoever. The power-ups just come to them. And Mundus who already used the Qliphoth fruit and thus knows the power that human blood gives to demons, should never have created Nero Angelo and instead simply possessed Vergil directly to get the benefits of being a half-breed Son of Sparda on top of his own powers as Prince of Darkness.

But, y'know, Mundus straight-up asks "Has the blood of Sparda been spoiled over the ages?" and in Before the Nightmare or Visions of V or whatever, he taunts Vergil for the weakness of his human blood even though by this point in the timeline it's been retconned that, uh, Mundus used human blood to feed his own power so he shouldn't be making those quotes knowing how much more powerful he got off of the same type of blood he derides, but having characters that properly behave in the world they do is too hard to do now, writing-wise.
 
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Handsome Devil Sparda

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Wonky powerscaling started in 3, tbh. This is the series that expects us to believe that Dante's greatest rival and equal was the guy he beat when he was 19 after only having DT in a few hours whereas Vergil had his own DT for 10 years by that point, and Vergil is still a threat/equal to Dante even in his 40s when he looks and fights the same as ever just with a new fruit and guilty conscience give or take some trauma, on top of him spending more time half-dead/"not himself" than alive while Dante consistently gained experience and better fighting skill through the same span of time.

And Dante won in 3 because of Motivation and embracing his humanity even though ultimately his power in DMC5 (Sin DT) comes from reconciling his human and demon sides which he somehow had never done at all until then. This rejection of his demon side until he hit his 40s should've meant that he was handicapped in all of his fights before 5 by not having embraced both parts of his identity properly thus impairing his ability for his demon side to tap into the strength of his human side or vice versa, and he should've lost more battles, but that never ever factored in for any single game including and especially 3, where Lady has A) more human blood in her than Dante does and B) no conflict with her identity due to her blood and by the rules of 5 should overpower everybody, but she still took a backseat to her own journey and quest for vengeance.

And if Urizen can get a power boost simply by pumping himself with human blood before he embraces his humanity properly, then Vergil per se should've always had the upper hand on Dante in every one of their battles because clearly wins can happen in this series regardless of if anyone does any endgame soul-searching whatsoever. The power-ups just come to them. And Mundus who already used the Qliphoth fruit and thus knows the power that human blood gives to demons, should never have created Nero Angelo and instead simply possessed Vergil directly to get the benefits of being a half-breed Son of Sparda on top of his own powers as Prince of Darkness.

But, y'know, Mundus straight-up asks "Has the blood of Sparda been spoiled over the ages?" and in Before the Nightmare or Visions of V or whatever, he taunts Vergil for the weakness of his human blood even though by this point in the timeline it's been retconned that, uh, Mundus used human blood to feed his own power so he shouldn't be making those quotes knowing how much more powerful he got off of the same type of blood he derides, but having characters that properly behave in the world they do is too hard to do now, writing-wise.
Mundas: Has the Sparda blood spoiled over the ages
*gets wrecked*
me: lol
 

Foxtrot94

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since DMC 5

Make it DMC1. The franchise starts off with the premise that, and I quote, Sparda stood up against and beat the demon army, Demon King himself included, alone.

Then, in the same game, Dante is stated to have gotten even more powerful than Sparda, and yet, despite the ulterior power boost he gets on top of that, still can't finish Mundus off despite the fact that the latter wasn't at full power. Doesn't add up.

Series has been pretty... deliberate, with its power scaling since the beginning. Yet another thing the new games didn't invent.
 

Morgan

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So...

Sparda defeats the legions of Hell and Mundus alone. Leaves a wound on Mundus that still hasn't healed 2000 years later. Commits feats that Dante himself hasn't replicated (elaborated in the third game).

Dante meanwhile, doesn't face a legion of Hell, just handfuls of demons at a time and one-on-one boss fights. Which, if he's already stated to surpass Sparda, would make those bosses actively suicidal, because they're not close to Sparda's level but still think they have a chance against someone alleged to have surpassed that power through the course of the game. And if they were on the level to go toe-to-toe with someone above Mr. Soloed A Legion Plus Mundus, then Mundus keeping devils who would be individually more powerful than he is with nothing but the honor system is stupid at face value.

But that's not what happened. To note:
- Trish overpowers Dante with a sneak attack before she herself is overpowered easily. She's not Sparda-tier.
- Phantom drops in on Dante, calls him "another small one ... a disappointing catch" and sensed Dante's power was only "a little bigger" than what he turned out to be, not LDK level. He mistook Dante for a human until he was almost dead and hallucinating. Phantom is not on Sparda's level either.
- Griffon faces against Dante and calls him a "human" in the first match. Griffon thought he could kill Dante despite missing a wing so long as Mundus gave him a power boost to "finish him" despite assessing Dante's power as "those of Sparda... no, even more so". Alas, he overestimated Mundus's capacity to give a damn, thought too highly of his own ability to fight impaired, but is somehow totally objective about Dante's power when he was 0 for 3 fighting the guy and 0 for 2 in being an efficient judge of anything else. Needless to say, not on Sparda's level.
- Nero Angelo fought against Dante. Defeats Dante, gets beat, gets beat again even with a power boost. He's not on Sparda's level either.
- Nightmare faces off against Dante in a 1 on 1 except for the last fight which included Trish and was thus a 2 on 1. Again Trish overpowers Dante with a sneak attack but he recovers. Trish and Nightmare were defeated anyway. Neither of them are on Sparda's level.
- Trish can't even dodge a falling rock, and later gets one-shotted by an eyebeam that she thought would kill Dante outright. She's absolutely not on Sparda's level.
- Dante was overpowered by Mundus's spears while wielding the unawakened Sparda and only deflects the eye beam with the awakened sword, no less.
- The game doesn't let Dante use Alastor or Ifrit in the Legendary Battle because "You won't stand a chance against Mundus with this armament!" and only allowed for the Sparda. Alastor and Ifrit worked perfectly fine against all other bosses, though.
- DMC3: Sparda sealed away a tower and multiple demons to serve as guardians using a ritual that Dante doesn't perform to get rid of the tower after it's unsealed.
- DMC3 Manga: Sparda stripped away the names of the seven sins and thus stripped their power/existence from them until their names could be restored 2000 years later. Even then the restoration was subpar: the Sins didn't get their true names, they were ordered to choose new ones. Sealing names is a feat that Vergil states is "impossible!" for anyone except Sparda to pull off. Mad Hatter says it's impossible for demons to regain their names naturally in 2000 years showing how extensive the damage is. Neither Vergil nor Dante have ever done that to any creature they've faced, even in DMCs 4 and 5.

So who's correct about Dante's power level in DMC1, the entire game and other materials that say Sparda has unparalleled ability that Dante hasn't copied, and even the brute strength has to be covered by the Sparda Sword? And even then Mundus taunts him for not being able to solo his crumbling form without the Sparda and the home field advantage of being in Hell to back him up?

Or some feathery douche that fought like an absolute goober, said one line and then got got by his own boss?
 

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Is there anything that prove Dante surpassed Sparda in DMC 1 ? Because from what I've seen, he never surpassed him. Mundus just pin in to the ground with one attack when he enters the room, and Dante is only able to fight back when he awaken the power of Sparda within the sword itself. It just screams to me that Sparda and Mundus are just on another level compared to lower demons, so if Sparda was able to fight Mundus, he would just fend off his army easily. And Dante never reached that level of power alone. He struggle against Mundus's lieutenants, and can't even finish a weakened Mundus when not using the Sparda. Only by combining his power with Trish (who was wielding the Sparda at this time), he managed to banish Mundus to the Underworld once again.

For DMC 3, the power level follow the logic of motivation (litterally). Dante lose the first fight because he has no goal to reach where Vergil, even if misguided, has a goal. For the second fight, Dante finally find some motivation and now fight for revenge and his amulet, but since he isn't better than Vergil, the fight ends in a draw. And for the third fight, Dante finally come to peace with himself and accept his heritage and the legacy of his father. He fight to defend humanity, and this make him far stronger than Vergil since he is still ready for more when Vergil start falling. Basically, the Twins's power depend on what they fight for, and it works in DMC 3 since it is well handled. Also in this game, the power of Sparda is still considered godly, since it gave Arkham so much power despite him not able to handle it.

That means in DMC, a rightous reason to fight can actually make you stronger or unlock a weapon's power (namely the Sparda). Sound good to avoid stupid power level by combining those with the theme of the story

But DMC 5 just throw all of this to the trash can by stating that the Sparda is now irrelevant without actually mentioning anything from DMC 1 (where is the Sparda form ?), and only to serve its own failed plot. The player is just supposed to accept this like an idiot and move on. Then we see Nero destroying Urizen shield when Dante in DT with the Sparda failed, so base Nero is stronger than the power of Sparda ? Dante could not use the full power of Sparda ? Because he lost his motivation ? But Lady and Trish were in the room, he doesn't care about them ? The story doesn't wants you to think about it, so it throw another stupid power up to make you forget what happened. The SDT, which is a side effect of creating the DSD (?), is now far stronger than Urizen. BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE. Urizen manage to eat the fruit, the "you win" Mac Guffin. But he still lose against SDT Dante, because else the story can't move on. Then Vergil is back, but he should be weaker than Dante since the fruit was basically useless and Dante has the Super Saiyan Blue SDT. But then, we can't have our overly forced Dante vs Vergil showdown, so he has the SDT too. And for a reason to fight, well just say they wants to kill each others so badly they don't care about anything else without any build up to this. And finally, we get ONE passable power up with Nero (since it at least got some build up before). Sadly there are no stakes since the twins are fighting over nothing, so the climax can't have much impact because the story is horribly handed.

That's why I said DMC 5 is the game that introduced stupid power up. Those doesn't follow any logic or story themes, and are only here to barely hold the story together
 
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Morgan

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Then Vergil is back, but he should be weaker than Dante since the fruit was basically useless and Dante has the Super Saiyan Blue SDT.
That's Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan to you. We need the extra ridiculous name for a ridiculous situation! :p
Then we see Nero destroying Urizen shield when Dante in DT with the Sparda failed, so base Nero is stronger than the power of Sparda ? Dante could not use the full power of Sparda ? Because he lost his motivation ? But Lady and Trish were in the room, he doesn't care about them ?
But, you see, Berial told Nero in 4 that "You are just like he was..." and he was referring to Sparda, because Berial was super young when Sparda rebelled against the legion of Hell so his direct comparison between Sparda and Nero totally means that Nero is already Sparda-tier as a teen! And then Dante muses that Nero might be more powerful than him (in the 4 novel)! We had to wait an entire other game to see it cashed in, but that's totes valid, because Nero's motivated by the power of deadweight!

/s
 

Hungry Alien

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That's Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan to you. We need the extra ridiculous name for a ridiculous situation! :p

But, you see, Berial told Nero in 4 that "You are just like he was..." and he was referring to Sparda, because Berial was super young when Sparda rebelled against the legion of Hell so his direct comparison between Sparda and Nero totally means that Nero is already Sparda-tier as a teen! And then Dante muses that Nero might be more powerful than him (in the 4 novel)! We had to wait an entire other game to see it cashed in, but that's totes valid, because Nero's motivated by the power of deadweight!

/s
Oh sorry, I failed to see how Kyrie gave power to Nero. After all, the protagonist always get stronger when his girlfriend tells him that he is alright... on the phone... Can't wait for DMC 6 and Nero's new feature : the talkie walkie ! With that, he is able to stay in contact with Kyrie and power up infinitely as long as she keep talking.
 

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The best part is what Kyrie said wasn't even that deep. All she said was "You already know right and wrong, and you're always right, so do the thing" which is the Capcom version of "Run, Barry, Run!" in the CW's The Flash. You'd think a guy whose entire thing is "running fast" wouldn't need someone to tell him to run faster every episode, but there ya go. That's what Kyrie did for Nero. For humorous effect I like to think she was saying anything at all to end the conversation because Nero was being bothersome. He wasn't even specific about the problem he was facing. And the wording was dumb as balls.

"I found out I have a family."

Were Kyrie and Credo NOT his family? What about their parents, who adopted him into their family when he was young, as stated in the novel? They really retconned those parents out to make Nero seem more pathetic and alone than he was, huh? Nice to know they don't think family exists outside of blood relation.
 

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Ah yes. I heard Sparda fought on both sides of the war and the other side lost. ;)

Edit:

Using my highly dangerous WMD (Weapon of Math Deduction), I present to you powerscaling in this form:

Devil May Cry 1
Sparda > Post-Qliphoth-Fruit Mundus (h.r.a. "Mundus")
Dante > Nero Angelo (best two out of three)
Dante > Nightmare + Trish
Dante + Sparda < Mundus
Dante + Awakened Sparda > Mundus
Weakened Mundus > Dante
Weakened Mundus < Dante + Trish

Devil May Cry 3
Dante + Rebellion + [A&R/Cerberus] < Vergil + Yamato
Dante + DT + Rebellion + [A&R/Cerberus/Nevan] = Motivated Vergil + DT + Yamato + Beowulf
Dante + DT + Rebellion + [A&R/Cerberus/Nevan/Beowulf] + Motivational Speech > Motivated Vergil + DT + Yamato + FE
Dante + DT + Rebellion + [A&R/Cerberus/Nevan/Beowulf/FE] + Motivational Speech ≥ Mundus?
Except
Mundus > Weakened Vergil
Mundus > DMC1 Dante + Sparda
Mundus > DMC1 Dante + [Alastor/Ifrit]
Mundus < DMC1 Dante + Awakened Sparda
Therefore at the very least
Dante + DT + Rebellion + [A&R/Cerberus/Nevan/Beowulf/FE] + Motivational Speech (h.r.a. "Endgame DMC3 Dante") > DMC1 Dante
If anything,
Arkham/Jester > Weakened Vergil
Not only that, but
Arkham > Weakened Dante + Vergil + Lady
Arkham + Sparda DT > Dante
Arkham + Sparda DT < Dante and Vergil
Therefore
Arkham/Jester > Mundus

Devil May Cry 4
Dante > Nero.
Except for when he doesn't. Then
Nero > Dante
while
Nero > Berial
Nero > Bael
Nero > Agnus
until
Nero < Agnus + Sneak Attack + Impalement
Nero + Reformed Yamato = Nero + DT
Nero + DT > Echidna
Nero + DT > Angelo Credo
Nero + DT > Angelo Agnus
while
Dante > Echidna
Dante > Dagon
Dante > Berial
Dante > Angelo Agnus
Dante > The Savior
Dante + Nero >>> The Savior
and especially
Nero > False Savior
Except
Nero + DT = Endgame DMC3 Dante? (dev/director statement)
Therefore
Nero = Endgame DMC3 Dante ≈ DMC4 Dante ≥ DMC1 Dante

which brings us to

Devil May Cry 5
Pre-Qliphoth-Fruit Urizen (h.r.a. "Urizen") > Everyone, when
Urizen = 1/2 Vergil
V = 1/2 Vergil
however
Weakened Vergil = Dying
Weakened Vergil > Nero
But if
Nero = Endgame DMC3 Dante ≈ DMC4 Dante ≥ DMC1 Dante
and
Nero > False Savior
Then
Weakened Vergil ≥ DMC1 Dante or
Weakened Vergil ≥ Mundus
at the very least,
Weakened Vergil > False Savior
therefore
Weakened Vergil ≥ Mundus > Weakened Vergil
But it also turns out that
Urizen > Nero
Urizen > Trish + Lady
Urizen > Dante + Rebellion
Urizen > Dante + Sparda
therefore
Urizen > Mundus, a.k.a. Urizen > Everyone
until
Dante + Rebellion + Sparda = Dante + Sin DT
so
Dante + Sin DT > Urizen
Dante + Sin DT > Urizen + Qliphoth Fruit
until
Dying Urizen + Dying V = Vergil
then
Vergil > Weakened Dante + Sin DT
until
Vergil + Sin DT ≈ Dante + Sin DT
but then
Motivated Nero ≈ Dante + Vergil
Motivated Nero + Bitchslap >>> Weakened Dante
Motivated Nero > Weakened Vergil
Vergil + Dante + Double Pimphand > Nero

and in conclusion
Vergil = Dante
Their Sin DTs > Sparda Sword
until Arkham comes back from the dead with a new powerup and breakdances the boys into oblivion or something.

Don't @ me, I don't make the rules.

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