• Welcome to the Devil May Cry Community Forum!

    We're a group of fans who are passionate about the Devil May Cry series and video gaming.

    Register Log in

Two Dodge Buttons

Ruisu

Of course you don't remember me.
Joined
Jan 26, 2013
Messages
333
Reaction score
224
Points
1,245
Age
29
So, I suppose you know I'm not a fan of the idea of having two button to do the same exact thing, Dodge.

Mostly, I would like to have a block/guard button as well, since that would bring some more advanced combat potential. But stick with me for a moment now. Don't think about how earlier DMC's worked and consider the demon/angel staces system for DmC.
Using the PS3 controller as a example, you keep R2 or L2 pressed down to change your current weapon and move set. Imagine now that you are using your right thumb for normal buttons like square, triangle and X, and the right analog, and your index finger focus on the R2 and R1 like normal, since using the middle finger is awful and get's in the way, and hell, is actually easier to just move your index from R2 to R1.

Let's say you need to dodge while in angel stance. No big deal right? You just move your right index to R1.
But let's say it's the inverse now. To release R2 and go to R1 is easy enough, but when you're actually trying to be stylish and dodge in the last possible second (for a Demon Dodge for example), having to change the position of your index finger is problem, since it get's in the way of your timing.

"Ruisu you noob, why don't you just use your middle finger in R2 and leave R1 to your index?" you might say.
"Mainly because using the middle thinger in a active way AT THE SAME TIME as using the index actively sucks, and also gets in the way of controlling my thumb, since I'm not button mashing and actually being technical with my button presses."

Then again, you did use your middle finger in dmc 4. Right? Yeah but let me say this:

Using finger passively:
That's when you just need to keep holding a button with a unique function, like a lock on.
Stance in DmC would be passive IF you only had one. Since you actually have 3 (human/demon/angel), that becomes active, and you have to constantly change between the 3.

Using finger actively:
That's when you need to press more than one button, usually alternating between two or more, each of those button with similar functions, like the movements buttons as triangle, X, circle, Square

Examples of those are the Styles Buttons for Dante(DMC4), the Exceed for Nero, and the Stances and Weapons switch for Dante(DmC).


So my point is, having just one dodge button in DmC is counterintuitive because of the Stances system.
Having two dodge buttons on the other hand is more fitting in the anatomical sense, because it excludes the need to use your middle fingers actively, since it enables you to use the oposing dodge button for the stance button you are using.
That being (R2stance/L1dodge) (L2stance/R1dodge).

In case you haven't tried using them like this yet, do it and see for yourself. Though I do believe most people reading already use them like this, since it's the intended use designed in the game.
I hope I've made my point clear enough.
And yes, having the stances with a toggle function instead of a hold would theoretically allow for just one dodge button.


And sorry for my bad english, I did not re-readed the text enough to fix it.
 

Terrutas

Well-known Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2013
Messages
1,156
Reaction score
729
Points
1,615
Twitter
Terrutas
Or,you could cleverly do what other DMCs did and combine the lock-on and dodge into one button. using directional inputs.
But yes,You do have a point but I don't think it changes the fact that it's just a poor choice and generally bad design. I never really was a fan of charge shot,which is one of the reasons I don't like playing as Nero.
 

Ruisu

Of course you don't remember me.
Joined
Jan 26, 2013
Messages
333
Reaction score
224
Points
1,245
Age
29
Well, it was a early decision to get rid of the hard lock-on, so they had to work around that while trying to "keep things simple".
And it actually works well in this game except for the pull/lift mechanics that loses quite a bit of precision. And the kablooey, but I don't use it all that much, so I can't say for sure.
 

Terrutas

Well-known Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2013
Messages
1,156
Reaction score
729
Points
1,615
Twitter
Terrutas
My suggestion was implied with that you go with the stance toggles. I really hate holding buttons down in general. I find it annoying and very unnecessary.
 

Ruisu

Of course you don't remember me.
Joined
Jan 26, 2013
Messages
333
Reaction score
224
Points
1,245
Age
29
Yep, I suppose stances toggle would work better for that purpose. Though the stance hold does work quite well for the "free-flow" idea and feel that DmC's combat has.
 

TWOxACROSS

Hot-blooded God of Guns
Premium
Joined
Nov 6, 2012
Messages
5,671
Reaction score
7,616
Points
11,515
My suggestion was implied with that you go with the stance toggles. I really hate holding buttons down in general. I find it annoying and very unnecessary.

And yet, you're okay with holding R1 down to do a lot of abilities in the classic DMCs...

That argument will always, now and forever, be silly to me, when most of DMC's gameplay was about keeping a finger on that (R1) trigger.

I never really cared about the whole "waaaaaaaaaah two dodge buttons is a waaaaaaaste!" because I understand the reason for it, but more so because I can bind the keys however I want, and I took away a dodge button to act as my Gun Special. And I STILL effectively Demon Dodge whenever I need to.

I actually didn't like the the R1+X=Roll in the old DMCs all that much, because it's rather restrictive and the Lock-On system has screwed me over on several occasions where it locks onto the wrong guy and I don't evade, and instead jump right into the hit I was trying so deftly to avoid. Trickster can alleviate that somewhat, but then I'm out an entire Style, just to have a working evade. This is all DMC3 thoughts, bee-tee-dubs. DMC4 was a bit better, but I'd still like it better if the dodge, even as R1+X, let you dodge in any direction you saw fit.
 

Terrutas

Well-known Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2013
Messages
1,156
Reaction score
729
Points
1,615
Twitter
Terrutas
And yet, you're okay with holding R1 down to do a lot of abilities in the classic DMCs...

That argument will always, now and forever, be silly to me, when most of DMC's gameplay was about keeping a finger on that (R1) trigger.

I never really cared about the whole "waaaaaaaaaah two dodge buttons is a waaaaaaaste!" because I understand the reason for it, but more so because I can bind the keys however I want, and I took away a dodge button to act as my Gun Special. And I STILL effectively Demon Dodge whenever I need to.

I actually didn't like the the R1+X=Roll in the old DMCs all that much, because it's rather restrictive and the Lock-On system has screwed me over on several occasions where it locks onto the wrong guy and I don't evade, and instead jump right into the hit I was trying so deftly to avoid. Trickster can alleviate that somewhat, but then I'm out an entire Style, just to have a working evade. This is all DMC3 thoughts, bee-tee-dubs. DMC4 was a bit better, but I'd still like it better if the dodge, even as R1+X, let you dodge in any direction you saw fit.
I dunno. It's just done right I guess.
 

ZeroLove

Well-known Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2011
Messages
3,084
Reaction score
1,649
Points
3,815
I like the two Dodge buttons. When I hold in the R2 button to activate a weapon, it's nice to be able to use the L1 Dodge, and the other way around when using the other weapon. Yeah, it may seem a bit pointless, but I make use of it alot because the opportunity is there.
 

TWOxACROSS

Hot-blooded God of Guns
Premium
Joined
Nov 6, 2012
Messages
5,671
Reaction score
7,616
Points
11,515
It's not pointless at all, though, that's the thing. You have two modifier buttons, that require the use of the same fingers for evasion, so they make it comfortable enough to still evade no matter which modifier you're using.

Two dodge buttons totally has a point, given the rest of the control scheme. People complain about it being a waste of a button, but don't take into account how it fits into the rest of it all :/
 

Judgement

The skeptical, open-minded, conservative, pacifist
Joined
Feb 5, 2013
Messages
249
Reaction score
187
Points
190
Age
32
I think it wasn't a bad idea. It helped me very much at the beginning of the game when I was getting used to all 3 types of dodging . Even though I liked it I eventually just changed my bindings so I only use the left dodge now. I changed my right dodge to guns so I can charge them while fighting and then I turned my guns button to gun special. If I couldn't change my bindings I still wouldn't really mind it at all since having two easily accessible buttons can be very helpful depending on how you use your other trigger fingers and what comes naturally.
 

ZeroLove

Well-known Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2011
Messages
3,084
Reaction score
1,649
Points
3,815
It's not pointless at all, though, that's the thing. You have two modifier buttons, that require the use of the same fingers for evasion, so they make it comfortable enough to still evade no matter which modifier you're using.

Two dodge buttons totally has a point, given the rest of the control scheme. People complain about it being a waste of a button, but don't take into account how it fits into the rest of it all :/

Well, they could have put the Dodge button as Circle (PS3) and then used L1/R1 for Special moves, because then you wouldn't use the same finger for it. So in that sense, it is kinda pointless. In the way the key-binds are now then it does make sense, but if they had rearranged the key-binds a bit, it wouldn't be necessary.
 

Ruisu

Of course you don't remember me.
Joined
Jan 26, 2013
Messages
333
Reaction score
224
Points
1,245
Age
29
And yet, you're okay with holding R1 down to do a lot of abilities in the classic DMCs...

That argument will always, now and forever, be silly to me, when most of DMC's gameplay was about keeping a finger on that (R1) trigger..

That is completely different. The lock on was an unique feature for the R1 button that required a passive imput. Like I said in my first post.
 

ChaserTech

Well-known Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
Messages
862
Reaction score
722
Points
925
Age
28
And yet, you're okay with holding R1 down to do a lot of abilities in the classic DMCs...

That argument will always, now and forever, be silly to me, when most of DMC's gameplay was about keeping a finger on that (R1) trigger.

I never really cared about the whole "waaaaaaaaaah two dodge buttons is a waaaaaaaste!" because I understand the reason for it, but more so because I can bind the keys however I want, and I took away a dodge button to act as my Gun Special. And I STILL effectively Demon Dodge whenever I need to.

I actually didn't like the the R1+X=Roll in the old DMCs all that much, because it's rather restrictive and the Lock-On system has screwed me over on several occasions where it locks onto the wrong guy and I don't evade, and instead jump right into the hit I was trying so deftly to avoid. Trickster can alleviate that somewhat, but then I'm out an entire Style, just to have a working evade. This is all DMC3 thoughts, bee-tee-dubs. DMC4 was a bit better, but I'd still like it better if the dodge, even as R1+X, let you dodge in any direction you saw fit.

If the DMC games had a lock on system like Kingdom Hearts, where you only needed to press the lock on button once to initiate it rather than holding it down, it would have made things a bit easier for people to deal with. Especially since you could run in KH while being locked onto your opponent, as opposed to the DMC games.

The reason why I don't like the fact that two dodge buttons are a waste is because . . well, it really was a waste of a button. I normally used just 1 dodge button and I was pretty fine with it. It kinda reminded me how Nero had one button which wasn't assigned to the controls.


At least it's not as bad as Super Smash Brothers Brawl where you have:

4 different inputs to taunt
3 different inputs to grab
3 different inputs to jump
2 different inputs to shield

Although, it still works since controls are heavily oriented around using the Control stick, C stick, A and B buttons, and L/R/Z buttons.
 

Rayl

Pain and pleasure... I've got it all.
Joined
Feb 14, 2013
Messages
747
Reaction score
733
Points
1,505
Age
36
Haven't read the thread as i only came here to say one thing.

Replace one of the dodges with DT access and there's already a massive improvement. I hated DmC mapping DT to L3 and R3, it's a dumb idea and whoever put it in that way is a huge twat.
 

DankestDarkness

Wondering sprit from hell
Joined
Jan 30, 2013
Messages
238
Reaction score
45
Points
155
Age
28
I think it was pretty dumb to put two dodge buttons most of the time people will be using one button but it's not a big deal you just customize your controller I took out the l1 dodge and put it as my devil trigger
 

Noel

Well-known Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2012
Messages
129
Reaction score
64
Points
230
Age
34
This is off topic but I found out that if you press both dodge button while in angel stance, you can angel dodge without pressing the dodge button twice.
 

Ruisu

Of course you don't remember me.
Joined
Jan 26, 2013
Messages
333
Reaction score
224
Points
1,245
Age
29
Haven't read the thread as i only came here to say one thing.

Replace one of the dodges with DT access and there's already a massive improvement. I hated DmC mapping DT to L3 and R3, it's a dumb idea and whoever put it in that way is a huge twat.
Disagree.

Considering the use of Devil Trigger in DmC as a "F*ck You, I Win" mode, the idea of releasing your thumbs from the regular buttons to press the analogs make sense.

I can't really explain why it does, but it does. And read the original post, come on D:
It was hard making it so big, I hate writing more than 3 paragraphs.

This is off topic but I found out that if you press both dodge button while in angel stance, you can angel dodge without pressing the dodge button twice.
That's because the game registers the imput from both buttons.
 

WorkenOnMaLeft

Well-known Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2013
Messages
308
Reaction score
169
Points
220
Age
28
Ive actually changed my configuration to make it L2 be angel mode and L1 be demon mode then made the extra button my gun special. I stand by my point that Demon Dodge should have been replaced with a variant of royal guard in which Dante, after three perfect guards in a row with no damage, would slowly release the energy and get that damage boost (since he is not yet powerful enough to store and release it all at once ala DMC3-4).
 

Rayl

Pain and pleasure... I've got it all.
Joined
Feb 14, 2013
Messages
747
Reaction score
733
Points
1,505
Age
36
Ive actually changed my configuration to make it L2 be angel mode and L1 be demon mode then made the extra button my gun special. I stand by my point that Demon Dodge should have been replaced with a variant of royal guard in which Dante, after three perfect guards in a row with no damage, would slowly release the energy and get that damage boost (since he is not yet powerful enough to store and release it all at once ala DMC3-4).

Anybody who advocates the use of Royal Guard is alright by me and that already does sound more fun to use.

Disagree.

Considering the use of Devil Trigger in DmC as a "F*ck You, I Win" mode, the idea of releasing your thumbs from the regular buttons to press the analogs make sense.

How broken DT is in this game isn't the point at hand, even though you are right, the point being is that it's annoying to activate it when there's already two buttons doing the same function. However from what i did read, yeah a guard button would be nice, especially if you could double it up with royal guard functionality! It would improve the game by several steps.
 
Top