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To All You Gamers Blaming The Fans For Poor DmC: Devil May Cry Sales

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EA9Sol

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I think I'll give my two cents on the matter. I don't blame someone for not buying a game. Hell, I might not have gotten DmC if it wasn't for my mom buying it as a birthday gift. I can understand no one wants to drop $60 on a game that they heard was not that good. People want to be informed shoppers now a days and might wait till it drops in price.
 

Rayl

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Are you telling me it didn't all start with a haircut? If I remember correctly, the reveal trailer which showed the brown haired and very roughed up Dante got fanboys to flip their sh!t even though also at that time, they didn't know anything about the game besides the reveal of Dante's new appearance. Don't tell me it didn't all start because of a haircut.

There was a LOT to hate on with the first trailer of Dante, the haircut itself? Surprisingly low on the list. The fact that he smoked was hated on FAR more, especially called out for when Tameemi claimed Dante wasn't cool anymore.

Because the things that made up Dante in that trailed obviously equal coolness ya dig? I'm going to admit to my reaction to this being a pretty solid:

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berto

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*Comes back hoping to see a civilized argument*
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You don't even know... you don't even know.


At this point I'm pretty sure people forgot that there is an article in here somewhere.
 

Tody

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Are you telling me it didn't all start with a haircut? If I remember correctly, the reveal trailer which showed the brown haired and very roughed up Dante got fanboys to flip their sh!t even though also at that time, they didn't know anything about the game besides the reveal of Dante's new appearance. Don't tell me it didn't all start because of a haircut.

Okay. I'm getting tired of this debate because it's detracting from the real topic here and is just annoying people.

So let me prove you wrong with the facts, in chronological order for your easy understanding, Chancey. Because I know where to find the articles on eGamer, I will reference them.

1. TGS 2010, 15 September 2010: Capcom announces DmC:

The trailer was revealed, which showed a game and character that bore absolutely no resemblance to the old franchise. It was a huge shock to fans, and it didn't help that Tameem said this at its announcement:

“We’re taking a younger Dante” that incorporates the youth culture of today, from fashion to music to street art etc.,” said Ninja theory boss Tameem Antoniades.


2. 18 September 2010, the original Devil May Cry creator responds negatively and without enthusiasm to the new game and the new Dante, basically dismissing a fan who asked about Ninja Theory's attempt:

3. 22 September 2010: Tameem Antoniades says Dante was changed so he could be "cool again", and the quote is directly below:

“It’s about Dante being cool and making you feel cool when you’re playing it, and so the combat and the style system and everything is integral to that.”

“But, you know, what was cool 12 years ago, I think that was when the first game came out, isn’t cool anymore,” he said.

Those three (all within a week of each other) were the starting point (not even taking into account all the media, opinions, attention, screenshots, etc etc etc), and from there fuel was repeatedly added to the fire.

Now, do you see it being about "the hair" alone?

Let's get back to a real discussion (about the topic) please.
 

Rayl

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If i may? I personally think the article is still the best part of this thread and i'd like to take the time to ask we get back on it's subject, if we may?

Edit: oops, got ninja'd there. Thanks Tody!
 

Chancey289

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There was a LOT to hate on with the first trailer of Dante, the haircut itself? Surprisingly low on the list. The fact that he smoked was hated on FAR more, especially called out for when Tameemi claimed Dante wasn't cool anymore.

Because the things that made up Dante in that trailed obviously equal coolness ya dig? I'm going to admit to my reaction to this being a pretty solid:

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And all he did was take a drag then went to town killing demons like he usually does. There was literally not enough to that trailer to get the ridiculous reaction it got. I was rather interested in the reason why he was in some kind of asylum. I don't drink or smoke but I also don't care if some video game character does it. The dude said Dante wasn't cool anymore and my response was "lol, when was Dante ever cool?"

I never shared some emotional attachment to the character but I always just really enjoyed the games so I didn't care whether Dante smoked or decided to get a haircut. He still had two guns and a sword which is about the only distinct feature I can give Dante. Well, his white hair was a part of that but I also noticed the white patch of hair so I just assumed this was going to be Dante's origin story when I saw that. I kind of figured we would see how Dante got his white hair. Overall, there was not enough to that little teaser to get the crazy reaction it did get.
 

Tody

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If i may? I personally think the article is still the best part of this thread and i'd like to take the time to ask we get back on it's subject, if we may?

Edit: oops, got ninja'd there. Thanks Tody!

Thank you! =) I've been unsuccessfully trying to get it back on topic, but I do very much appreciate anyone who did try as well and focus on the article :) Hopefully it's still salvageable.
 

Chancey289

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Okay. I'm getting tired of this debate because it's detracting from the real topic here and is just annoying people.

So let me prove you wrong with the facts, in chronological order for your easy understanding, Chancey. Because I know where to find the articles on eGamer, I will reference them.

1. TGS 2010, 15 September 2010: Capcom announces DmC:

The trailer was revealed, which showed a game and character that bore absolutely no resemblance to the old franchise. It was a huge shock to fans, and it didn't help that Tameem said this at its announcement:

“We’re taking a younger Dante” that incorporates the youth culture of today, from fashion to music to street art etc.,” said Ninja theory boss Tameem Antoniades.


2. 18 September 2010, the original Devil May Cry creator responds negatively and without enthusiasm to the new game and the new Dante, basically dismissing a fan who asked about Ninja Theory's attempt:

3. 22 September 2010: Tameem Antoniades says Dante was changed so he could be "cool again", and the quote is directly below:

“It’s about Dante being cool and making you feel cool when you’re playing it, and so the combat and the style system and everything is integral to that.”

“But, you know, what was cool 12 years ago, I think that was when the first game came out, isn’t cool anymore,” he said.

Those three (all within a week of each other) were the starting point (not even taking into account all the media, opinions, attention, screenshots, etc etc etc), and from there fuel was repeatedly added to the fire.

Now, do you see it being about "the hair" alone?

Let's get back to a real discussion (about the topic) please.
Well maybe other Devil May Cry fans just share a more extreme passion for a character that is just shallow and rather uninteresting in my eyes. Devil May Cry has always been one of my favorite gaming franchises but quite frankly I never cared about it's hero or cast especially since I just saw a shameless ripoff of a bunch of different anime trends that are rather trite. I don't like Dante. I don't hate him but he was never one of my favorite gaming characters.

I don't care if he changes up a bit because Dante has also changed with every game. The reboot is really no different to this trend. I wasn't surprised. I was just interested in seeing another Devil May Cry that wasn't doing the same crap anymore. I'm cool with that. Overall, I still liked DmC but also I never stopped liking the original. I just at least want to see a DmC 2 before reverting back to the previous series because I think DmC did some pretty cool things as well.
 

EA9Sol

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>.> I read it as well. Really good, by the way. Anyway, I think another why reason people dislike DmC so much is not because they hate change. No, it's because NT changed too much. I personally like the new take, but I do miss some of that DMC1 and 3 flare.
 

SugarMoon

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I still couldn't believe journalist tried to blame it's low sales entirely on the fans themselves. Scapegoating all the way.
 

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@Chancy
Fair, but you've got to keep in mind that your attachment (or lack thereof) to the character is your own. From your sig it's revealing that you're a big fan of the Joker. If the Joker's hair, outfit, personality and gear were dramatically changed (for the reasons the DmC creators gave) could you honestly say you wouldn't be concerned or upset? I'm a massive Batman fan myself, and if core things I loved about the character were changed, I wouldn't find myself a happy man until it proves me wrong, and I'd be very harsh if it doesn't or isn't for the best benefit of the material.

You don't care, others do. A lot. That doesn't make them wrong as long as they're being constructive with their complaints and refraining from ugliness or personal attacks.

@EA9Sol
Thank you! =) That's actually a good point, and it's one I raised in the article referenced in this article (articleception). The objective analysis I link to. I recall speaking about the fact that too much was changed, leaving the franchise unrecognisable to its predecessors, breaking the familiarity and spirit of the series, which was very dangerous, as fans need constants (things that remain the same to help keep the material spiritually the same) and DmC effectively had none.

@SugarMoon
Me either, that's why the article I wrote was a bit harsher or direct in tone than I would have liked, as I was pretty riled at the time of writing it. It was hard to believe that a journalist, who should know better, would defend a game/publisher/developer to the extent that they'd actually show contempt for consumers for not buying a product. Scary, it's bordering on propaganda.
 

Winterfrost

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Did anyone else forget Bayonetta's sales? It started off slow, eventually hit 1mil.
Eventually.
Time is important, and those who want to wait..then just wait.
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and be nice to each other. Love being nice to each other.
 

Chancey289

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>.> I read it as well. Really good, by the way. Anyway, I think another why reason people dislike DmC so much is not because they hate change. No, it's because NT changed too much. I personally like the new take, but I do miss some of that DMC1 and 3 flare.
Also, the drastic change was the intention. It still preserves what's vital to the Devil May Cry formula but instead of looking like an anime they wanted a more contemporary setting. Dante's not that different at all and neither is the rest of the cast. Thing is also, they were working with characters who hardly had anything to them anyway and were about as deep as a kiddie pool. I think the fans perception of these characters are better than what they actually are.

I enjoy my head-cannon Dante more than the one in the game because I would like to think Dante isn't a complete dork and actually can mouth off some smack talk with a comedic sense of humor that's actually funny rather than cheesy. I look at DmC as the Ultimate Devil May Cry and DMC is Earth 616.
 

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Is all the cursing and rudeness necessary?
I don't won't this thread locked, considering the article posted was actually very well done.
 

Rayl

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>.> I read it as well. Really good, by the way. Anyway, I think another why reason people dislike DmC so much is not because they hate change. No, it's because NT changed too much. I personally like the new take, but I do miss some of that DMC1 and 3 flare.

I both feel this way and feel like the new Dante could be salvaged with a few changes to his character and to the overall combat system, points i've already gone over in other threads.

Hell at this point rather then going fully back to the old style, i'd like to see a balance struck between the two as i don't actually outright dislike what NT did. If that's not possible, i'd at least like to see some overall improvements so everybody (and by everybody, i mean everybody in the fanbase that aren't just spewing forth irrational hatred regardless of what "side" they're on.)

So essentially, change is good, too much change is risky but perfecting that change would be ideal but i don't feel like anybody in the industry would actually want to listen to us at this point because we all apparently are spiteful asshats.
 

Tody

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Did anyone else forget Bayonetta's sales? It started off slow, eventually hit 1mil. Eventually.Time is important, and those who want to wait..then just wait. and be nice to each other. Love being nice to each other.

This is true Winterfrost, but what put the nail in the coffin was that the game did reach 1 million units sold, but just two weeks after it launched Capcom reduced the sales target from 2million down to 1.2 million (an 800 000 reduction) which is extremely worrying as it revealed they didn't have the confidence to sell more, or rather the stats didn't look promising.

To miss your sales target by that much is definitely a concern.

@EA9Sol and @Rayl
I talked a lot about the changes and why they were taken so harshly by fans in this write-up:

It came before the OP's article, and was an analysis of the sales performance, reboot and reasons fans didn't take to it. It was far more objective than subjective.
 

Chancey289

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@Chancy
Fair, but you've got to keep in mind that your attachment (or lack thereof) to the character is your own. From your sig it's revealing that you're a big fan of the Joker. If the Joker's hair, outfit, personality and gear were dramatically changed (for the reasons the DmC creators gave) could you honestly say you wouldn't be concerned or upset? I'm a massive Batman fan myself, and if core things I loved about the character were changed, I wouldn't find myself a happy man until it proves me wrong, and I'd be very harsh if it doesn't or isn't for the best benefit of the material.

You don't care, others do. A lot. That doesn't make them wrong as long as they're being constructive with their complaints and refraining from ugliness or personal attacks.

@EA9Sol
Thank you! =) That's actually a good point, and it's one I raised in the article referenced in this article (articleception). The objective analysis I link to. I recall speaking about the fact that too much was changed, leaving the franchise unrecognisable to its predecessors, breaking the familiarity and spirit of the series, which was very dangerous, as fans need constants (things that remain the same to help keep the material spiritually the same) and DmC effectively had none.

@SugarMoon
Me either, that's why the article I wrote was a bit harsher or direct in tone than I would have liked, as I was pretty riled at the time of writing it. It was hard to believe that a journalist, who should know better, would defend a game/publisher/developer to the extent that they'd actually show contempt for consumers for not buying a product. Scary, it's bordering on propaganda.
I can see where you're coming from. I mean I still sometimes get a little on the fence with Nolan's Batman trilogy because while I enjoy it, I don't like what he does with the characters. Especially what he did with Bane which is one of my favorite Batman villains next to Mr. Freeze.

But we're talking about Dante who was never that great character fans think he is. Be honest, you can't say Dante is some masterful trip into character exploration and depth where Dante is a VERY weak character. Which I think it's mostly the fans personal interpretation of him that makes him so special to them. The Joker is a character that throughout the years has established such an identity that straying away from the what is vital to Joker is absolutely out of the question and taboo. Dante doesn't have that kind of prowess. He's a very inconsistent character that overall is a ripoff of trite anime trends and is just a borderline cardboard cutout. Whether they are a massive fan of the character or not, Dante is not the golden boy they think he is. See where I'm coming from?

Like I know you're also a huge Metal Gear fan like me but are you going to say Dante matches up in comparison to the rich and well developed characters Kojima has created? I hate Raiden with a passion but even I will say Raiden is a better character than Dante. And dude I like NEVER talk good about Raiden because I really really really hate that character lol.
 

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Again, you're making a fair point, but for Dante and his fans I don't think it really had anything to do with depth so much as it had to do with style. Devil May Cry has never featured a complex story or complex characters. Fans loved Dante for capturing "bad ass", for his traits, for being an unsympathetic arrogant cool dude. Especially fans of anime would identify with and love the character. I can't speak for their passion because I'm not an enormous Devil May Cry fan, I just like the series.

As a writer myself and as someone who has spent years studying storytelling, narrative and all its elements, it's easy to see Dante isn't deep or complex. But not every character needs to be. This wasn't Dante's purpose. It was a lot about style.

And as far as that is concerned, I think Dante was pretty great at being cocky, bad ass, fun and cool. Add in all his idiosyncrasies and it's easy to see why fans were attached. That's the character he was trying to be, and I think that's what fans loved and felt was pulled off well.

It's like Uncharted's Nathan Drake. He isn't exactly deep, but I adore the character personally and so do many others.

On a separate note, I found it remarkable how they redeemed Raiden in MGS 4 :p
 

SugarMoon

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As a writer myself and as someone who has spent years studying storytelling, narrative and all its elements, it's easy to see Dante isn't deep or complex. But not every character needs to be. This wasn't Dante's purpose. It was a lot about style.


It's like Uncharted's Nathan Drake. He isn't exactly deep, but I adore the character personally and so do many others.

Not sure if this is relevent but here goes:

Like you said, basically a character doesn't have to be deep and complex to be likeable. Childish yes, but I'm still a very huge fan of Mario and all he did was go around saving a bimbo who was captured every other day (love ya Peach ^_^)

Seriously, you know you have a great character design if it's simple but loved by the masses. That may be another reason why fans didn't like DmC too much. It tried to take itself too seriously *shrugs* that's just a guess though.
 
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