The Snyder Cut
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They're calling it a trilogy knowing damn well that they kneecapped Snyder at every turn with their own poor decision-making and what was supposed to be three Man of Steel/Superman movies turned into "three movies with Superman in them", when BvS was a two-parter they condensed it into one, and JL was supposed to be a three-part film. WB is so stupid.
New information has surfaced concerning the script(s) for New Gods, with an interview between Jonita Davis and Aaron Michel Johnson. AMJ originally wrote a spec script for New Gods and details his experience getting it to WB.
One month prior to any of this, five pages of the purported New Gods script leaked, with AMJ's name on it.
New information has surfaced concerning the script(s) for New Gods, with an interview between Jonita Davis and Aaron Michel Johnson. AMJ originally wrote a spec script for New Gods and details his experience getting it to WB.
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One month prior to any of this, five pages of the purported New Gods script leaked, with AMJ's name on it.
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Scott Mendelson continues his clownery, surprising no one, as he pushes the narrative about being fair and balanced towards ZSJL and its fandom while latching onto any scrap of news that suggests it underperformed or that it failed AT&T's expectations for HBO Max. He posted his article off the back of a CNBC piece that stated in no uncertain terms that "Zack Snyder's Justice League did little to boost HBO Max subscriptions". The CNBC article has since been retitled to be less sensationalist and focus more on hard numbers, which should have embarrassed Mendelson by association. AT&T reported
Still, for people with an agenda, it was somehow important for them to blame a barely-marketed R-rated 4-hour film for not pulling in Huuuuuuuge Numbers for HBO Max when there's a slew of other content placed in the lineup for the first quarter (and more bankable actors behind them) that also didn't boost up numbers, but without the excuse of being R-rated, a tremendously long (relative) runtime, or being "a re-release/Director's Cut of an existing film" from years ago which means the plot was already spoiled to hold them back.
Snyder-Haters are going cross-eyed trying to juggle "Snyder fans are a loud and vocal minority and not even AT&T cares about them" and "AT&T cares heavily about the ZSJL property and not ****ing its fandom off, so they threatened to pull ad revenue from CNBC".
Anyway, here's Zack being a cool dude:
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in the first quarter of the year, bringing up the total to 44.2 million domestic subscribers for HBO/Max; for a service that's mostly in the US and not available worldwide that's still a lot of revenue. Still, for people with an agenda, it was somehow important for them to blame a barely-marketed R-rated 4-hour film for not pulling in Huuuuuuuge Numbers for HBO Max when there's a slew of other content placed in the lineup for the first quarter (and more bankable actors behind them) that also didn't boost up numbers, but without the excuse of being R-rated, a tremendously long (relative) runtime, or being "a re-release/Director's Cut of an existing film" from years ago which means the plot was already spoiled to hold them back.
Snyder-Haters are going cross-eyed trying to juggle "Snyder fans are a loud and vocal minority and not even AT&T cares about them" and "AT&T cares heavily about the ZSJL property and not ****ing its fandom off, so they threatened to pull ad revenue from CNBC".
Anyway, here's Zack being a cool dude:
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Yes. I heard. It's less than that, though. For people with an agenda the rules fold and rize depending on what they need and they tend to fall back on mockery for their own arguments when it doesn't suit them. Honest discussion is currently not something we see amongst the 'professional' circuit.
The truth is, the situation is not as simple as 'they only made 2.7 million subscribers for ZSJL.' Myself, for example. I got HBOMax on a sale that was 20% off for 6 months, which would end on the last day of February, so, even though I only got it for JL, I did so well before the movie released. How many people got it for WW82 on the same sale or decided to keep it till MK? Did they run a survey, because they didn't ask me. Just how many different accounts have accessed the SCut? How many subscriptions did they get after the news of the release and so on and so forth? It's not as simple or dry cut as that.
Ofcourse, people like this Scott Mendelson will not hear of it. He's too busy poppin champagne at his hollow victory, which I'm sure he jumped at posting about it before thinking about it because that would get in the way of his facerubbing.
For this, I'm playing the long game. I am waiting at least 6 months to see the results of this and assume nothing, either way.
The report is just for 2.7 million new subscribers in general, which brought their sub count up to their Q4 2023-projected amount in advance by 3 years. No one in their right mind should be calling that a failure nor any movie in that quarter "underperforming" because the subs metric on its own is a success. They won't release specific numbers for ZSJL because subs don't necessarily correlate to views unless they poll users directly (I'd personally love that, I've already sent them customer feedback saying as much) or do something wild like a special release to theaters to get money that way. Or they run some secret algorithm behind the scenes and do know the exact views in relation to subs, but that takes too much thought and not enough transparency. Anyway, the best figures that have come up are view counts from outside of the U.S. and from non-Max streaming services.
I got my subscription the literal evening of ZSJL's debut and I've kept it for GvK and MK. I've left customer feedback with HBO Max saying as much. The amount of people who subbed before the movie are a nonzero amount, but most people are like you (don't buy unless there's a deal) or me (don't spend money until we have to, on the eve or day of). And there are people who are probably waiting for a deal to come up for HBO Max right now just so they can watch ZSJL now that it and critic reviews are out.
I'll just keep track of the news and keep an eye out for a collectible version of ZSJL. Even if I cancel my Max sub, I'll still want to watch the movie, so. I might specifically drop Max to pick up Netflix and watch AotD and related works. And if there's a box in the unsub page asking why, I'll put that as the explanation. Lmao.
Grass... green. Sunrise.... East.
Somehow it sounds like a bigger risk to them to spend money funding the Snyderverse (which doesn't even necessarily mean only works directed by Snyder, but things compliant to his work in the DCEU) than it is to fund projects with unproven side characters, or funding sequels to poorly received films (see: WW84). They pretty much ate a massive L for not funding Joker completely, so Village Roadshow Pictures and Bron Creative got a chunk off the billion-plus the movie made for being an R-rated nonsequel film unconnected to the DCEU. Not that that movie needs a sequel, but WB fumbles everywhere somehow. Even the DC Animated Universe is suffering.
Edit: Well I just found out they released a trailer to the 4K version of Josstice League. Who wants to see that nonsense in 4K?
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Depending on when you see this it might change but as of right now, April 30th, 2021, Zack Snyder's Justice League is at the top of the charts:
My understanding of this is that his is for digital sales, only, which makes sense, considering it's the only way to buy this movie.
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Hehehehhe
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My understanding of this is that his is for digital sales, only, which makes sense, considering it's the only way to buy this movie.
Edit:
Hehehehhe
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Oh wait, but I thought people weren't interested in ZSJL? And GvK outperformed it at everything ever despite coming out in the last day of the quarter?? And even Judas and the Black Messiah had more viewers???
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Speaking of darker, more psychological cuts of previous movies:
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Yeah. They really seem to want to downplay the appeal of these movies. They especially want to tell us that the Snyder Cut did very poorly.
Well, that's one of the things that kept coming up when the movement was going, that directors have a vision in mind, they film it, and more often than not the studio comes in and demands alterations, specially if they feel it will make more money. In Batman's case they want to sell toys.
Honestly. You'd think they'd stop doing that when a) even Tim Burton objected to the initial treatment for Batman coming off as too Donner-ish (quote: "It had the same light, jokey tone [...] while that route was probably fine in the case of SUPERMAN, there was absolutely no exploration or acknowledgement of the character's psychological structure and why he would dress up in a bat suit.") and b) Schumacher's Batman & Robin killed the franchise so hard that Nolan had to revive it
I did not know this. Is that why he stepped off with Batman Forever?
You know, Joel Schumacher is an excellent director. One of my favorites of his is a George Clooney movie called The Peacemakers. How the guy who made that ended up directing B&R is beyond me.
WB seems to have this history, then, of having an idea of how they want things to be and not allowing their creatives to implement their visions. With MoS, I thought it was a perfectly good start, but they should've made a second one before they started adding Batman.
Apparently, it's not just their creatives but their stars, too. Henry Cavill wanted a pay raise and executive producer power with his role in Superman. As he is the face of a franchise you'd think there'd be room to negotiate. Not only that, but from what I've heard, Affleck wrote a lot of the lines for Batman in BvS in costume, and Ray Fisher had constant contact with the writer of JL so they could develop the character together. With that in mind, I think all the actors had a part in shaping their characters. I think Cavill helped in some ways to shape Clark and he wanted to have the executive power to shape him more. I just don't think WB is that kind of company, though. Not from what we've seen of them.
Likely a contributing factor, yeah.
WB is all the answer you need on that one. IMO, Schumacher accepted more responsibility than he should have on B&R's failure, but WB were the ones that fast tracked production on the movie because of Batman Forever's success, and it started principal photography in 1996 for a 1997 release as well as being seriously toned down and distanced from the darker productions like Batman Returns precisely in order to sell toys (
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[...]
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corroborated by Chris O'Donnell's quote: "On Batman Forever, I felt like I was making a movie. The second time, I felt like I was making a kid's toy."). Batman & Robin is the DMC2 of Batman films, give or take
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and pointing blame at himself for the movie failing. In
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. At least
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. On top of people accusing him of slipping his gayness into B&R over the nipple costumes when what he wanted to do was to portray the heroes as like Greek statues of old and pay heed to the clear artistic decision in comics to make skin-tight/form-fitting suits that emphasize the heroic proportions of its wearers. Which isn't unlike the criticism Snyder gets for "objectification" in his movies when he emphasizes the human form.More relevant quotes from the Vice Q&A's: "I never planned on being, that dreadful quote, "a blockbuster king" because my other films were much smaller and had just found success with the audience and not often with the critics, which is really why we wrote them. And then after Batman & Robin, I was scum. It was like I had murdered a baby."
"It's really interesting to me is, because if you see Tim's and my [films], you'd understand how innocent the audience was back then when it demanded to have more of a family-friendly Batman. Then when you see Christopher Nolan's trilogy, the last one especially where he's dealing with real class and economic problems, you see how the audience has changed in the fact that they can accept and want darker and darker subject matter."
And take it from Variety: Schumacher was a "
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". If anything, try wrapping your head around the director for the 1995 cult classic version of Mortal Kombat -- that people still remember fondly, made Techno Syndrome iconic, and was written about as having "broken the Video Game Movie Curse" -- being the same exact dude that directed (and screenwrote) at least half the slate of poorly-received live-action Resident Evil films and the newest Monster Hunter live action movie. Same guy, no lie. Paul W.S. Anderson.But don't you know? It's Batman. He's a household name in terms of comics popularity. His presence alone should earn a billion dollars off the back of the Nolan films, even though the trilogy only broke a billion on/after The Dark Knight, not immediately during Batman Begins. Establishing characters? What's that? Man of Steel sequels with Russell Crowe that were originally planned? Who cares? Dawn of Justice being a two-parter? Naaaaahhhhhhhhh.
I mean, Marvel and WB are cut from the same cloth in that case. There's plenty of behind-the-scenes issues on Marvel's end that resulted in such things as: Edward Norton getting replaced by Mark Ruffalo; Terrence Howard replaced by Don Cheadle; Edgar Wright stepping down from Ant-Man which Jon Favreau tellingly explains as "All Edgar’s films have been studio films, it’s not like he’s never made one before. I think he’s been used to a situation where he can have tremendous creative say around his story and casting," implying Marvel wasn't letting Wright have that; Jon Favreau not directing the version of Iron Man he was going for in the second movie and being skipped over to direct The Avengers in favor of Joss Whedon who was a cheaper hire at the time, as well as Marvel pressuring Favreau to get that sequel out quickly and turn it into an Avengers set-up film rather than a proper sequel to Iron Man; Mickey Rourke slamming Marvel for only wanting to make "mindless comic book movies" and corroborating in his own way that Favreau wasn't in charge of the film, quote: “I explained to Justin Theroux, to the writer, and to [Jon] Favreau that I wanted to bring some other layers and colours, not just make this Russian a complete murderous revenging bad guy. And they allowed me to do that. Unfortunately, the [people] at Marvel just wanted a one-dimensional bad guy, so most of the performance ended up the floor.” “At the end of the day you’ve got some nerd with a pocketful of money calling the shots. You know, Favreau didn’t call the shots. I wish he would have.” ; Lucrecia Martel turning down a directorial role for Blsck Widow because, quote: "Companies are interested in female filmmakers but they still think action scenes are for male directors. The first thing I asked them was maybe if they could change the special effects because there’s so many laser lights. I find them horrible. Also the soundtrack of Marvel films is quite horrendous. Maybe we disagree on this but it’s really hard to watch a Marvel film. It’s painful to the ears to watch Marvel films.”.
WB somehow managed to be worse than that.
Yeap. Ray Fisher and Chris Terrio worked on Cyborg's lines if it wasn't Fisher actually talking to Snyder. Jeremy Irons wrote/fixed his own lines for the theatrical release of JL because the script written for him was dumb. Cavill wanting a proportional pay raise and instead getting his head cut off in a Shazam cameo (not literally!) sounds like something they'd do. And then they would wonder why he went for Mission Impossible and The Witcher.
All in all, this is ridiculously dumb for WB to make a fuss over. Even if Cavill was asking for Affleck amounts of money, Dwayne Johnson is literally right over that way, and guess what? He's not any cheaper. His name alone gets people into seats and elevates otherwise shlocky films. If people crowd for Black Adam, he's going to want more money than he's already being paid. He's going to be far more expensive than even Cavill.
Funny you bring that up. The Rock's agent happens to not only be his ex-wife but Henry Cavill's agent, too. The two of them did a thing on social media a while back to promote black Adam and the story goes that The Rock doesn't just want his Back Adam to fight Shazam, he wants him to fight Superman. Cavill's Superman. WB probably isn't stupid enough to pass on The Rock's ticket selling power but the story goes that they're not in a great financial position, either. Snyder movies are not particularly cheap to make so when you take all this into consideration, well, it's an uncertain future.
This being my source on this. Like anything else, take it with a grain of salt.
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Supes vs Black Adam? Sounds like a better way than any to show Superman being weak to magic, outside of a Kingdom Come sequence where Billy gets brainwashed. I can dig it. Or they could do it like that Superman/Shazam animated film.
As far as funding, WB'd have to let him executive produce the rest of the DCEU going forward, but they're too proud for that. We'll see what happens going forward.
The Times:
Article below because the above link is paywalled:
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Article below because the above link is paywalled:
Hm. Is that news reliably sourced? That's the important part.
Edit: @berto Hold up, I gotchu.
The actual Miguvideo page of
Hit the Translate button on that and you get:
and for comparison:
TLDR; It's right.
The source is literally Miguvideo, with the playback stat situated on the full-length feature film versions of these videos, and not a combination of views across trailers and other things.
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Nothing found for Bilibili's views, found it,
These are impressive for a movie that didn't officially release in China, right?
Word on the street is Warner Bros refused to release it there, then China fought for streaming rights since it was already being pirated anyhow, and so WB sold streaming rights to the different Chinese services and still forbade them from releasing the movie in theaters since the plan was to have GvK, WW84, Dune, etc. be successful in theaters over there, meaning that WB isn't seeing whatever additional profit they could get from China's VOD/"pay-per-view" model of streaming, not like HBO Max's monthly fee-for-all.
Edit 2: Yoooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Edit: @berto Hold up, I gotchu.
The actual Miguvideo page of
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(or, Justice League: Zack Schneider Edition).Hit the Translate button on that and you get:
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and for comparison:
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(or, Avengers League 4: Final Battle)
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TLDR; It's right.
The source is literally Miguvideo, with the playback stat situated on the full-length feature film versions of these videos, and not a combination of views across trailers and other things.
Edit:
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shows "27.5 million views".
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reports "11.935 million views" and still counting.
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doesn't have the viewcount where I can identify it, but it does say that 22K people rated the movie, and 84% of them gave it 9-10/10.These are impressive for a movie that didn't officially release in China, right?
Word on the street is Warner Bros refused to release it there, then China fought for streaming rights since it was already being pirated anyhow, and so WB sold streaming rights to the different Chinese services and still forbade them from releasing the movie in theaters since the plan was to have GvK, WW84, Dune, etc. be successful in theaters over there, meaning that WB isn't seeing whatever additional profit they could get from China's VOD/"pay-per-view" model of streaming, not like HBO Max's monthly fee-for-all.
Edit 2: Yoooooooooooooooooooooooooo
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This is, well, sincerely, it's all ridiculous. These numbers are insane. I am honestly hoping that they are playing up all this drama for numbers because WB is sitting on a gold mine and if they are refusing to exploit it then, well, it'd be stupid. They are claiming that they are not so well off and, say what you will, but the 2017 cut of JL is the best thing that ever happened to the movie. Without that we would've gotten a theatrical run that removed too much from the product and it wouldn't have gone down in film history as what it is. I am sincerely wondering if, after seeing how it all turned out, that the studio might be trying to play it all up again.