So, those millions of people Vergil got killed... again.(SPOILERS)

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Urizen is vergil demonic half without his human half V, is vergil human half That restrain him from doing bad bad bad things, that s why vergil split himself so that he can do what he need to do whitout limit... In mission 17 if you look closely you can see that the location of the battle, the house of vergil family, its in reality an urizen memory, his last part of humanity that its still attached to him, Infact when he eat the fruit the location begin to fracture like a glass and dante say that his last part of humanity his now gone, during the battle the location continue too fracture multiple time, demonstrating that Infact urizen had some connection to his memory but that last part of memory is now gone by eating the fruit and he only care about power now...
I'm not denying that Urizen is Vergil's demon half while is V is Vergil's human half, i just think its too simplistic. Especially in a series where there are good demons and bad humans.

A more specific approach is Urizen is the part of Vergil that still thinks power will solve everything while V is the part of Vergil that realizes seeking power at all costs hasn't really worked.

I don't think V is inherently good, he just made the choice to be better/different than he was before. There is also circumstances like his body falling apart that also pushed him into certain paths. You could even make the argument he still wants power as it comes up in a taunt as well as the end of mission 17. So the potential to fall back into old habits is still there.
 
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Vergil95

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I'm not denying that Urizen is Vergil's demon half while is V is Vergil's human half, i just think its too simplistic. Especially in a series where there are good demons and bad humans.

A more specific approach is Urizen is the part of Vergil that still thinks power will solve everything while V is the part of Vergil that realizes seeking power at all costs hasn't really worked.

I don't think V is inherently good, he just made the choice to be better/different than he was before. There is also circumstances like his body falling apart that also pushed him into certain paths. You could even make the argument he still wants power as it comes up in a taunt as well as the end of mission 17. So the potential to fall back into old habits is still there.
Yes Infact v is not 100% good, since in the novel he attack a man to get money for morrison... V is vergil human part bat the human are not 100 % good.. Probably in the dmc universe human are more tended to be good and demon are more tended to do bad things but both of them have good and bad side... While from urizen I can see that he is 99% evil
 

berto

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while V is the part of Vergil that realizes seeking power at all costs hasn't really worked.
I don't know if that's true. There is a possibility that V was manipulating his way back to his other half. That he had no intention of killing Urizen from the start and was just saying everything they wanted to hear to get their help.
 
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Vergil95

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I
I don't know if that's true. There is a possibility that V was manipulating his way back to his other half. That he had no intention of killing Urizen from the start and was just saying everything they wanted to hear to get their help.
I don't think so since he send dante and the other to kill urizen, he probably realize later that too survive i need urizen again... Also when V was talking to Trish he said that he called dante because he hope that he can fix him as he was before but he wanted urizen to die, so he was hoping to return as vergil but doesn't want urizen to kill people
 
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V's patron

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I don't know if that's true. There is a possibility that V was manipulating his way back to his other half. That he had no intention of killing Urizen from the start and was just saying everything they wanted to hear to get their help.
Sure.

The possibility is there but I just thought he was too sincere about his regrets. Or he just changed his mind along the way as reforming with Urizen would help him live longer.
 

berto

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Sure.

The possibility is there but I just thought he was too sincere about his regrets. Or he just changed his mind along the way as reforming with Urizen would help him live longer.
And yet, we see none of that in Vergil as a whole. As a human he might see that and as a Demon he might reject it and when the two are one again the conflict still remains but V would've known that. Vergil must be the man that he is and if V was really concerned with how thing would turn out with Vergil he would've let things go as they did and just let Dante strike him down.
 

Vergil95

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And yet, we see none of that in Vergil as a whole. As a human he might see that and as a Demon he might reject it and when the two are one again the conflict still remains but V would've known that. Vergil must be the man that he is and if V was really concerned with how thing would turn out with Vergil he would've let things go as they did and just let Dante strike him down.
Why would he? He wanted to survive like any other human being, doesn't mean he is evil or good is just human... When vergil return simply stayed few word so how can we judge him? He can be neutral, he can be regreat about what he did or not but since he descend into hell with dante to stop what he did we can assume he regretted, or he would have simply wipe out Nero and continue to fight dante and rule the world and do other bad things
 
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berto

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When vergil return simply stayed few word so how can we judge him?
We're not judging him. We're making observations, examining his actions and trying to interpret them based on his behaviour and general attitude and I think he was aiming for fusion from the start. Vergil returns and he does nothing. He doesn't try to correct what's happening or anything that V might do with all the power Vergil has, like try not to get anyone else killed. He just sits and waits for Dante. We can interpret this in several ways but to me, seeing how everything turned out, how V and Vergil act and what they did, V was manipulating the situation to get back to being Vergil. Whether or not there was any truth to what he said to Trish is debatable but I believe he said it to help make his case to her and, by extension, Dante.
 

Vergil95

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We're not judging him. We're making observations, examining his actions and trying to interpret them based on his behaviour and general attitude and I think he was aiming for fusion from the start. Vergil returns and he does nothing. He doesn't try to correct what's happening or anything that V might do with all the power Vergil has, like try not to get anyone else killed. He just sits and waits for Dante. We can interpret this in several ways but to me, seeing how everything turned out, how V and Vergil act and what they did, V was manipulating the situation to get back to being Vergil. Whether or not there was any truth to what he said to Trish is debatable but I believe he said it to help make his case to her and, by extension, Dante.
I think v intention were genuine he wanted to stop urizen but he also wanted to return as vergil Infact he said this to Trish, That he called Dante in the hope tha he will fix him and help him return as he was once, but he doesn't want urizen to kill people and become king of the underworld, since vergil Is both urizen and V, vergil want to fight dante at all cost, that's why he separate himself in the first place V tell this to Trish, also dante himself goes to vergil instead of destroying hell gate or trying to do anything else, dante even play game whit him during the battle, they laugh, both of them completely forgot about the fact that people is dying even I forget about it, only when Nero remembered to all of us that the ubderworld was taking over, everyone decided to stop it, including vergil, he could have simply stayed there and fight Nero and dante until he died or win but he decided to stop what he did... He said that the underworld taking over is going in is way, but that s just an excuse he simply want help them, he could have continued to let the underworld destroying everything and become king of the underworld, even malphas said that mundus failed tu rule the human world but that Urizen will not, so urizen original plan was to become king and take over the human world, if Vergil wanted to do so he would have let it happen but he decided to stop it, like V wanted... So what I m trying to say is that V wanted urizen plan to conquer the human world and kill people to stop, but he wanted also to return as vergil, but when he returned he decide to battle dante and dante decide to fight him, this was Infact vergil original plan, but when he realize that it was just a stupid brother rivalry just like Nero sayd he decided to stop and do what it must be Done, destroying the three and save the human world like V wanted and not destroying it and becoming king of underworld like urizen wanted, urizen proclaimed himself king many time but vergil never did he decide to stop everything...
 
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V's patron

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And yet, we see none of that in Vergil as a whole. As a human he might see that and as a Demon he might reject it and when the two are one again the conflict still remains but V would've known that. Vergil must be the man that he is and if V was really concerned with how thing would turn out with Vergil he would've let things go as they did and just let Dante strike him down.
There is the possibility V didn't how his remerge would Urizen would go.

I don't think the mechanics of this process are well known. This game seems to be the first time it ever really happened so everyone is grasping at straws. Even Dante thinks he could replicate it with Rebellion. So maybe V was hoping his new perspective would impact Vergil when he rejoined Urizen?

He just happened to be wrong?
 
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Innsmouth

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I think that V did change Vergil at least to certain degree, since after reemerging he started to wonder about his perspective against Dante's somehting he never done before. That being said, I do think Urizen wasn't separate being and was part of Vergil, but he also was part lacking memory and entire life experience, making him simple brutal force. Btw, did Trish once again stirred up crap like she did in DMC4? She basically told V "see it through" which somehow I have feeling pushed him to the decision to merge into Vergil once again....
 

Vergil95

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I think that V did change Vergil at least to certain degree, since after reemerging he started to wonder about his perspective against Dante's somehting he never done before. That being said, I do think Urizen wasn't separate being and was part of Vergil, but he also was part lacking memory and entire life experience, making him simple brutal force. Btw, did Trish once again stirred up crap like she did in DMC4? She basically told V "see it through" which somehow I have feeling pushed him to the decision to merge into Vergil once again....
I don't get how can people think it's a sapreste entity since in the game is pretty obvious that Urizen is his demon half and manifestation of his desire of power while V is his human half embodiment of his emotion feeling and also of his pain since he control the familiar who are stated to be vergil tough during the time as nelo Angelo is regreat and suffering
 

V's patron

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I think that V did change Vergil at least to certain degree, since after reemerging he started to wonder about his perspective against Dante's somehting he never done before. That being said, I do think Urizen wasn't separate being and was part of Vergil, but he also was part lacking memory and entire life experience, making him simple brutal force. Btw, did Trish once again stirred up crap like she did in DMC4? She basically told V "see it through" which somehow I have feeling pushed him to the decision to merge into Vergil once again....
I rewatched that scene and i don't think she manipulated V. Ironically she acted like a mom and told him not to give up.
 

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I rewatched that scene and i don't think she manipulated V. Ironically she acted like a mom and told him not to give up.
no I don't meant she "manipulated" him. But she kinda give him support so he decided not to give up and disappear like he originally planed to. So it's like DMC4 where she tried to integrate herself into order which gave Sanctus Sparda sword.
 

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no I don't meant she "manipulated" him. But she kinda give him support so he decided not to give up and disappear like he originally planed to. So it's like DMC4 where she tried to integrate herself into order which gave Sanctus Sparda sword.
Sure but i don't think its the same as she did in 4. Trish just told him not to give up versus 4 where she took matters into her own hands.
 

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Sure but i don't think its the same as she did in 4. Trish just told him not to give up versus 4 where she took matters into her own hands.
yes, what I meant to say, she's kinda though unwillingly contributed to the endfight once again.
 

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It could be worse, but apparently Dan as VA interfered and avoided Vergil come as a totally out of character (as in case of Vergil suggesting Nero's mother was just a toy for his pleasure) and turn it as it was a quick fling or maybe a romance (Dan considers Vergil is not a person who'll get easily in bed with anyone without a reason/connection), so it could be much worse.
Please tell this isn't real.

I'll gladly settle for Vergil's sort of lukewarm motivations and arc if it meant avoiding that dumpster fire.
 

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Please tell this isn't real.

I'll gladly settle for Vergil's sort of lukewarm motivations and arc if it meant avoiding that dumpster fire.
It is, mate! There is an interview with Dan where he told just that. It's not the first time DMC VAS come out talking how they somewhat refrained certain things to happen, inappropriate situations and all.
 

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It is, mate! There is an interview with Dan where he told just that. It's not the first time DMC VAS come out talking how they somewhat refrained certain things to happen, inappropriate situations and all.
joining the convo late here xD
i thought the original line suggested that Vergil was sleeping around and nothing serious,which Dan didnt like....not that she was his toy.
and i dont see how thats out of character tbh,if anything its more of Vergil's character to use others for his needs and then never give them a second glance.especially that he was a teenager at the time,if anything its out of character that he would actually have an emotional connection with someone...
i get the whole redemption arc,but Vergil was a huge douchbag.Dan has been his VA for a long time and i imagine he would want Vergil to be portrayed in a better light.
 

Gel

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i thought the original line suggested that Vergil was sleeping around and nothing serious,which Dan didnt like....not that she was his toy.
She wasn't HIS toy, but sure she was a toy for his pleasure. He was a douchebag alright, but most of the fans hoped he was a little better than that ( Dan included). That's why I felt in DMC5 ending, Vergil was the same idiot he was in DMC3: all V's arc seems so empty now that I know DMC5's ending.
 
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