So, those millions of people Vergil got killed... again.(SPOILERS)

Exejpgwmv

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,181
Points
2,075
Spoilers obviously: Similar to what happened in DMC3, in DMC5 Vergil is directly responsible for destroying a city(ies) full of people. And save for maybe 1 or 2 parts of the shorter cut-scenes, no character is really angry at him about it and Vergil isn't really sorry by the end. (And I've already started to see jokes about how Dante is basically having playful banter with a multi-mass murderer and terrible father by the end.)

Now this isn't a big problem for almost any player, people like Devil May Cry for it's combat. But it does make question why would they focus on it so much if it wasn't going to be a major point of contention for any of the characters or outside of the prologue?

They go through the trouble of showing civilians getting impaled in the prologue, soldiers getting butchered in Mission 1, and you can see the standing/kneeling corpses of people drained by the Qliphoth. But then they just end up not doing anything with it.

Why not just have the game take place on an uninhabited island like in DMC1 at that point?
 

DarkSlayer54

Well-Known Member
Messages
570
Points
1,700
Well, to be fair... it wasn't truly Vergil causing so much destruction. If anything, I disliked how Dante wanted to immediately kill Vergil... sure, he destroyed a city in DMC3, but Dante hardly cared back then either. I thought Dante would have been less angry, and more... "Hey dude, you still a power hungry murderer or you cool?".

Ultimately, it's just a Vegeta arc... except Vegeta potentially murdered billions of beings as opposed to thousands. If Vergil stops caving into his lust for power, then Dante and Nero have another ally against demons. Pretty easy to forgive when they poses the power to eradicate millions of demons.
 

Vergil95

Might controls everything, and without strength, y
Messages
534
Points
295
Yeah that s a bit weird but in the end I dmc 3 vergil was not the only responsabile but arkham too... And actually the demon doesn't follow his order in dmc 3, beside the one you see going to vergil at the end of mission 2, the other simply are by themsefl protecting temen ni gru or other places... Infact in vergil intro in dmc 3 and in the manga vergil himself is seeying fighting the same demon as dante... In dmc 5 urizen killed many people using the quliphot three but many other demon besides malphas are simply following theyre desidere to take the fruit before urizen, and V the human side of vergil helped people during the one month gap, and also helped Nero and dante destroyed cliphot lesser three... When they reunite vergil is not simply urizen but v too, so he maked many good action, but in the end its a bit weird... Also dante say : you have some pretty big cocones for coming back?

Whaaaaaaaat? Really? Dante cryed in dmc 3 for him, and also after he fight him in dmc 1 he was a bit spossed, but in dmc 5 want to kill him as soon as possible, strange
 
Last edited:

Lain

Earthbound Immortal
Supporter Gold
Messages
3,057
Points
6,615
Whaaaaaaaat? Really? Dante cryed in dmc 3 for him, and also after he fight him in dmc 1 he was a bit spossed, but in dmc 5 want to kill him as soon as possible, strange
To be fair, even as far as the final mission in DMC3, Dante still says he's going to "stop" Vergil and not necessarily "kill" him. Perhaps he thought that if he beat down Vergil enough he'd stop his evil plans and that's why he cried when Vergil seemingly died. But then in DMC5, after coming back from the dead twice and still bent on amassing power at the cost of millions of lives, Dante must've decided that there's no saving Vergil and it's finally time to put him down. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
Last edited:

Vergil95

Might controls everything, and without strength, y
Messages
534
Points
295
An arc implies that Vergil's character has changed. But he's stayed the same since 3.(Stirs up a bunch of **** trying to get power, and only reluctantly takes down something he helped create once it becomes inconvenient.)
He changed, v himself say this... Only when he separate his human half from demon half he realize how important the human half and sentiment were end realiz how awful were the crime he committed as vergil... when he reunite whit urizen and give birth to vergil again he take this new knowledge whit him and accept his human half realizing it s importance
 

LordOfDarkness

The Dark Avenger © †
Staff
Supporter 2014
Supporter Diamond
Supporter Gold
Messages
11,314
Points
21,075
There is a pretty big difference to Vergil in DMC 3 and Vergil in DMC 5. And that difference is we now know the reason behind why Vergil is the way that he is. Whereas in 3 it was just like “Aha, my evil brother. Time to face your end!”.

@Lain is right that Dante was probably thinking “This douche-muffin hasn’t changed a bit”.

But we didn’t know why Vergil was that way and now we know and understand a lot more about it all.
 

DarkSlayer54

Well-Known Member
Messages
570
Points
1,700
An arc implies that Vergil's character has changed. But he's stayed the same since 3.(Stirs up a bunch of **** trying to get power, and only reluctantly takes down something he helped create once it becomes inconvenient.)
I definitely see it as an arc - that V changed who he is after recombining. Giving him a new outlook on life, and realizing the futility of obtaining infinite power.

I totally see him being a good guy after this game. Not going out of his way to help people, but protecting the earth none the less. An anti-hero, like Vegeta.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ash

Lain

Earthbound Immortal
Supporter Gold
Messages
3,057
Points
6,615
He changed, v himself say this... Only when he separate his human half from demon half he realize how important the human half and sentiment were end realiz how awful were the crime he committed as vergil... when he reunite whit urizen and give birth to vergil again he take this new knowledge whit him and accept his human half realizing it s importance
The problem with this is that it's all very good to "say" he's changed and recognises human importance, but nothing he does after becoming whole indicates he cares for anyone other than himself and maybe Dante & Nero. Case in point, after regaining his body Vergil is content to just leave the Qliphoth to continue expanding and killing people, and only helps stop it when it finally becomes inconvenient to himself.

What's really jarring is that Vergil is the true winner of DMC5. He got literally everything he wanted (at the cost of millions of lives) and doesn't get any comeuppance other than a mild inconvenience of which we know Capcom will bring him back eventually since he's a fan favourite.
 

DarkSlayer54

Well-Known Member
Messages
570
Points
1,700
Well they better bring Dante back too. Last I heard he was pretty popular as well.



You got a problem with that?

*jk*
It's super cliche... but it's exactly what I want. As predictable as it is, I don't want him to be canonically killed off.

I want more Vergil, dang it. Such an amazing character to compliment Dante's gameplay / personality. I just want more weapons for Vergil.
 

Goldsickle

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,128
Points
3,735
Title is a spoiler.
I played this game not knowing Urizen is Vergil, no matter how "obvious" it is to some.
I avoided all storyline discussions and speculations.
 

Taramafor

Well-Known Member
Messages
50
Points
50
Well, to be fair... it wasn't truly Vergil causing so much destruction. If anything, I disliked how Dante wanted to immediately kill Vergil
Same.

And Virgil actually goes back to hell to clean up his own mess in the end. Might even be doing it for his son. Considering Virgil has NEVER done anything for anyone in his whole life (that we've seen at least) take the gesture for what it's worth. If you just hold a grudge he aren't going to do anything for anyone.

It's not about forgiveness (or punishment) It's about moving on. Virgil is sorry for nothing he did. But that doesn't mean he can't play nice. He's not killing people NOW is he? But if you want to make him angry by holding a grudge... Sounds counter productive to me. He might listen to a debate on the matter though (still risky. His patience is known to be short. We see this in 3. Also seen to be possible in the very same scene).
 

Vergil95

Might controls everything, and without strength, y
Messages
534
Points
295
The problem with this is that it's all very good to "say" he's changed and recognises human importance, but nothing he does after becoming whole indicates he cares for anyone other than himself and maybe Dante & Nero. Case in point, after regaining his body Vergil is content to just leave the Qliphoth to continue expanding and killing people, and only helps stop it when it finally becomes inconvenient to himself.

What's really jarring is that Vergil is the true winner of DMC5. He got literally everything he wanted (at the cost of millions of lives) and doesn't get any comeuppance other than a mild inconvenience of which we know Capcom will bring him back eventually since he's a fan favourite.
It's just an excuse that vergil want to stop qliphot because it gets in his way, he want to stop it just like V wanted before because he is v too... vergil In dmc 5 is like vegeta, even if he doesn't share his emotion or sometimes simes to share the opposite he care for bulma and trunks just like vergil learned to care for Nero after the fight and probably dante too... In fact as soon as he returned he take back V book because he care about that book very much, it's probably the same book the old man give it to him when he was a child and in the end he give it to Nero because he realize how important Nero is for him... Doesn't matter if he became to care about him because he show him how powerful he is or else, but in the end he care for him a think
 

AngelEyes

Dressed To Kill
Messages
105
Points
615
I mean... Dante did a disco dance in the middle of the blood sacrifice tree. I don't see the real world death count as a priority.
 

V's patron

I have no name for I am but 2 days old ;).
Messages
7,272
Points
12,415
DMC3 handled it better than 5 because it was more ambiguous in its setup. A lot of the carnage took place offscreen and it wasn't a direct consequence of Vergil's intentions etc so you could ignore it more than 5's setup.

Show don't tell is a good piece of advice but it has it's share of drawbacks.

5 would have managed it better if Vergil was part of the story from the get-go and interacting "openly" versus interacting through V.
 

AngelEyes

Dressed To Kill
Messages
105
Points
615
DMC3 showed less realism in it's world, but at the same time threw in a couple of school buses to make sure you got the message.
 

Stylish Nero

We Dem Boys!!
Messages
4,020
Points
5,915
DMC3 handled it better than 5 because it was more ambiguous in its setup. A lot of the carnage took place offscreen and it wasn't a direct consequence of Vergil's intentions etc so you could ignore it more than 5's setup.

Show don't tell is a good piece of advice but it has it's share of drawbacks.

5 would have managed it better if Vergil was part of the story from the get-go and interacting "openly" versus interacting through V.
Well the plot of DMC5 actually demanded showing people being impaled and killed since it required human blood sacrifice. DMC3 only alluded to people being murdered since you blood markings and Dante (in game) commenting on some of the demons dragging humans away. The casualties in DMC3 didn't matter at all to the plot. The city could've been abandoned before it rose up or Vergil could've chosen to rise Temen-Ni-Gru in a desert the plot will still play out the same. The Qliphoth had to appear in a populated area and show the tentacles kill people and suck them dry to show what it does and how it works. Otherwise players would be wandering around it and questioning where is it getting its blood from.

No it would not 5 is essentially Vergil's redemption story. Having Vergil 100% responsible for the Qliphoth with zero remorse only to have him make a face turn to work with the heroes would make less sense let alone the cast (well at least Nero and Dante) and audience to forgive him would be a lot harder to buy. Its still hard to buy but it makes sense in its own DMC way.

And don't forget Urizen is still part of Vergil and represents his unwavering need for power at any means necessary. Urizen represents the power hungry Vergil we mainly know from DMC3 but to an insane degree and V the humanity he kept hidden and a more truer side to him.

The problem with this is that it's all very good to "say" he's changed and recognises human importance, but nothing he does after becoming whole indicates he cares for anyone other than himself and maybe Dante & Nero. Case in point, after regaining his body Vergil is content to just leave the Qliphoth to continue expanding and killing people, and only helps stop it when it finally becomes inconvenient to himself.

What's really jarring is that Vergil is the true winner of DMC5. He got literally everything he wanted (at the cost of millions of lives) and doesn't get any comeuppance other than a mild inconvenience of which we know Capcom will bring him back eventually since he's a fan favourite.
Actually if you juxtapoxe the ending with DMC3 there is a difference. In DMC3 in the end the 2 realms were merging and rather than listen to Dante and leave the Temen-Ni-Gru to stop it he chose to continue to fight whereas in DMC5 the situation was pretty similar and rather than choosing to continue fighting Nero he chose to go stop the Qliphoth himself and was going to do it alone (Dante tagged along for whatever reason). The Qliphoth isn't really much of an inconvenience to Vergil if the Temen-ni-Gru wasn't one to him before. These types of face turns aren't 180 immediately but in Vergil's case its probably a 45 degree turn. DMC3 Vergil probably wouldn't care at all. If anything the "inconvenience" is just an excuse.

Granted I see your point in not stopping it before and choosing to beat Dante first rather than stop it (although its unknown if he would've stopped it after he beats Dante's ass) but if anything he just went from villain to anti-hero. Its Vergil and Vergil is going to Vergil but at least his portal opening days are over so baby steps. Even in DMC6 Vergil will probably not be the beacon of humanity and justice like his brother and son but work with them for the greater good (but will probably use some excuse like fighting a tough opponent or if Nero or Dante dies he won't be able to settle the score).

Uhmmm also the first thing that happens to Vergil when he came back was that Dante attacked him out of the blue and it was Dante who literally said "Cmon Vergil lets do this!" and then again Vergil probably had a mutual feeling. Its a known plot point in DMC3 that Dante and Vergil just really love stabbing fighting each other no matter how irrational it is. A plot point that is carried over even into DMC5. Dante is equally at fault for wanting to fight Vergil before trying to resolve the issue at hand.

The first thing he does when he comes back is pick up V's book. Which is either the same book of William Blake poetry he got from the old man as a child or a recreation of it that came when he split out V (probably the same one though). The V on the book is probably his initial that he engraved on it to have ownership of it to prevent Dante from stealing it. So his experiences as V still hold some weight with him and in the end he gave that same book to Nero. Probably his most valuable possession (outside their mother's amulet but he doesn't have that anymore) so while his growth isn't in your face and obvious he isn't the same guy as he was before.....mostly.

As for your last point,

 

Veloran

Well-Known Member
Messages
503
Points
800
I'm not sure Vergil can actually be blamed for Urizen taking advantage of the tree.

For one thing, it's implied the tree's growth is a natural occurrence that happens on a set timeframe. And while Nero suggests Yamato is at fault for things (IE that Urizen opened the portal himself), could be that Sparda's seal was just so degraded after millennia that it could no longer stop the Qliphoth from breaking through. Given demons already had a history of being able to attack Red Grave, it seems likely it was particularly weak there. I'd even go as far as to say that the reason Sparda settled in the area around that time was because the Qliphoth was due to appear in the near-future.

Moreover, it seems obvious that Urizen's actions were never Vergil's plans. He intended to separate the weakness and corruption from himself just to fight Dante, but when Urizen was born he didn't actually care much at all about Dante. Instead he tried to invade and rule over both worlds, something that was explicitly not Vergil's prerogative. It seems as though Vergil had no idea that Urizen would deviate so much from his own desires, and that V trying to stop him is highly indicative of that.
 
Top