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Resident Evil (and survival horror in general), kind of disappoints me now...

berto

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Sorry for the tremendously tardy responses. Life gets hectic sometimes.

I feel you and understand where you coming from, yet I can't help but feel your pining for "lost days" of old-school survival horror.
You make it sound like I'm some poor delusional fool who hopes for things that will never come. Just how many games these days are remakes, rebuilds, re-released, reboots or ports of very old games? I'm not really alone in the sentiment.

How can they be lost days when you still have those games in the palm of your hands, or are available through Steam, eShop, PSN, XBLA, and the Indie scene? You still have options, even if the AAA scene does not care anymore
I'm a bit lost. You feel like I'm 'pining for the lost days' as though that was then, this is now, but at the same time those days are still around?

Well, let's tackle this as is. I've never really been one for the AAA market. I've might've on the PS2 days, and whatever came before, but when games got popular I saw the decline of the experience. I'd never bother to go for a AAA game unless it was super cheap, free or a gift. I could make an argument about how the AAA experience is way too movie like and it detracts from something intangible they had but now is only found in smaller productions that are clear labors of passion. I could also argue that this is why Japan as a nation of consumers have tapped out of the console market.

With that being said, RE had that intangible quality once. Not anymore. It's become like all other AAA games. Do I think it's because of the choice of camera? No. RE4 had, won't for long, but that wasn't the point. There is an experience that comes from a game having fixed angles. Grim Fandango had it, not a horror, but it's not the kind of thing people bother with anymore because it requires too much from the player. This debate here is pretty solid proof. Now, if I'm not mistaken your arguments, yours and Goldsickle can be summed downed to 'get over it, it sucked anyway,' or am I mistaken? Well, if so, then no, I don't have to deal with it, I don't have to put up with it, that's why I don't pay for it. It's why my money goes to other things. That, as I remember, was the whole point of this thread. Whatever it was about was about modern survival horror that was we felt was disappointing.

not that I exactly blame him
Is that so?

You would have some in the AAA that would "get it right", while most others would screw it up
Doesn't that, and hasn't it always, applied to anything in games? What's the trend right now? Souls like. Some get it right but most...

Leading back to where we started all over again. Sturgeon's Law still apply, whether you want it to or not
I don't remember ever making an argument against that.

I am glad Capcom decided to move forward... I prefer it that way
And so, you take your money where you want and I go with mine to where I want. You finance what you like, such as this direction, and I don't.

at least they bother to still be experimental and try new things.
Debatable. Capcom most definitely isn't trying new things. They are trying tried and true things that are new to their franchises but they haven't actually tried new things in ages. About the only thing that is new and innovative is their graphics.

"Making money" has been a concerned even during the fixed camera phase.
Yes, it was. Who said it wasn't?

You talk as though it wasn't at the time.
Never said that and I don't recall ever implying as such.

On a related note, you probably remember the story of RE1 almost not being released when Mikami presented it to the higherups and one of the producers screamed to him that he'd better not dare release that garbage under the Capcom name.

When you lean towards the idea that they do it because it "sells better", you're implying that they didn't pick it because they feel that it's a better format for what they have in mind.
I see? Actually, I'm a bit confused about the logic but I get the idea. No, I don't think they went the direction they went because it was 'better' but because it was more popular. It's not just about the camera but the presentation. RE's remake is very much in the spirit of the original. It is the most faithful adaptation of a game to newer hardware. It doesn't hurt that, as the director of both put it, it was basically him making the game he wanted to make but without the technological limitations. Here, though, RE2's remake share very little with its source material. The tone, the presentation, the general atmosphere are all very clearly different and not at all in the same spirit. One is Michael Mann remaking L.A. Takedown as Heat while the other is making the Rear Window remake that was Disturbia. That's how I perceive it. Money is the reason. Fine. Can't fault someone for wanting their company to prosper. I don't have to support it, either. I liked that product, I don't like this one. Simple as that. Whether they made money a priority before is not relevant here.

Nobody in Capcom ever said that it was only greenlit purely because of the reaction to the HD edition of REmake.
And you believe that Capcom will tell us absolutely everything? That there is nothing they will keep quiet about in regards to their inner workings?

You will love ignoring this part (as you have previously) because you don't have a valid response but:
Just me, right?

Remember that the RE2 remake only started because Hirabayashi submitted his pitch.
And what are the factors that lead to Hirabayashi submitting the pitch?
You also seem to love to ignore the idea that this was helped along because of the success of the remake's HD port. Oh, that's right. You actually believe that if they don't say it outloud it never happened. You'd make an awful witness for the prosecution. You know what else they never said? That DmC's reception is the reason they went back to the original. I guess since they never said it anywhere it must mean it didn't happen.

I think we can both agree that it ruins the puzzle when the solution is displayed so easily like that.
No. I don't agree. How? How does it simplify a puzzle. If the angle of the puzzle is making the solution more evident they can switch the angle or up the difficulty of the puzzle, not sure what the argument is here.

In case you missed my point (again)
Oh, I can sympathize.

I'm talking about how fixed camera limits the kind of puzzles you can create.
I'm trying to visualize what kind of puzzles GoW has that would somehow not work because of fixed angles and all I can think is that those kinds of puzzles don't fit with RE anyway. Even if they were altered for it I don't see as much issue with it that a little creativity wouldn't fix for fixed cameras. Then again, GoW didn't have a free camera, either. Sorry. I just don't buy the argument.

Thanks for proving my point that all fixed camera could provide is nothing more than novelty.
Well, sorry you don't see the appeal but I don't find it to be a gimmick. Gimmicks don't have long lasting appeal or effect and the angles have lost no appeal nor effect with me on RE1 or 2. I find it a legitimate form of presentation.
 
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Health Drink

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Why are the new RE games bad? That must be a trick question meant to catch me out.

Maybe it's the nonsensical plot, the fact you don't see the Ethan character in full, and how it barely has anything to do with RE besides including a handful of returning characters and a few references to Spencer. Again, things they probably purposefully shoehorned in to create a veiled connection to prior storylines.

The older games were just better and more atmospheric in general. Even the graphics in the first remake I'd say are better than the deliberate dark second remake.

The RE2 remake has a second scenario that is largely just a repeat of the A run. Whereas the original game didn't do this. It was a game that consisted of a canon A and B scenario, with one B scenario being non canon. But it really had more heart to it. The remake also cut out a lot of areas and enemy types.

Starting from RE4, the franchise was mainly an action saga thereafter, with a lot of scary things in them. But the idea that you buy weapons and act funny kind of defeats the purpose of being isolated, and it just took the series in an incredibly silly route. It's never fully recovered from that move.
 
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BrawlMan

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You make it sound like I'm some poor delusional fool who hopes for things that will never come.
I never said, nor implied that. That was not even close to where I was getting at. It's fine to relive or revisit memories of old, but just don't rely too much on nostalgia. Nor fall for the typical nostalgia goggles trap.

ust how many games these days are remakes, rebuilds, re-released, reboots or ports of very old games? I'm not really alone in the sentiment.
So? There are still plenty of new games as well. The point I made still applies, regardless. Plus, not every reboot, re-release, or "remaster" has been good. There are plenty of crappy ones too.

I'm a bit lost. You feel like I'm 'pining for the lost days' as though that was then, this is now, but at the same time those days are still around?
I already explained it to you. Also, see my first response again within this recent response.

Well, let's tackle this as is. I've never really been one for the AAA market. I've might've on the PS2 days, and whatever came before, but when games got popular I saw the decline of the experience. I'd never bother to go for a AAA game unless it was super cheap, free or a gift. I could make an argument about how the AAA experience is way too movie like and it detracts from something intangible they had but now is only found in smaller productions that are clear labors of passion. I could also argue that this is why Japan as a nation of consumers have tapped out of the console market.
I stopped caring for most AAA games around the late 7th generation and early 8th generation. My feelings have not changed much or have been strengthen in certain regards.
Now, if I'm not mistaken your arguments, yours and Goldsickle can be summed downed to 'get over it, it sucked anyway,' or am I mistaken?
No, you're putting his words in my mouth. I acknowledge the good they provided at the time, but let's be real: there's a reason why most developers don't bother with fixed camera anymore. It was a a compromise. I have some nostalgia, but I don't miss them that much.
Is that so?
Yes. I don't agree on everything Goldsickle say for the record, nor worship the ground he walks on. I can respectfully agree and disagree when needed. I do admit he needs to be less harsh and less combative with arguments, even when he has a point.


With that being said, RE had that intangible quality once. Not anymore. It's become like all other AAA games.
That really only applies to RE5, RE6, and the Revelations games. I still don't like RE7 and RE8 (3rd person has me invested with the Gold Edition), but they're not like every other AAA game.

Doesn't that, and hasn't it always, applied to anything in games? What's the trend right now? Souls like. Some get it right but most...
Exactly. Sturgeon's Law, baby! Plus, don't feel like going though that sh#t again, if it happens.
I don't remember ever making an argument against that.
I never said you did. I was only making and emphasizing a point many fail to realize and blind themselves and others from.
Debatable. Capcom most definitely isn't trying new things. They are trying tried and true things that are new to their franchises but they haven't actually tried new things in ages. About the only thing that is new and innovative is their graphics.
That's a straight up lie. Not every single thing is new, but they have tried things from either a new angle or perspective, or done some more experimental idea. I may not like nor agree with all of it, but they did try. Tried more than most AAA developers do today. The first-person perspective ain't new in an RE game, but they at least tried adding some new type of monsters, or going full gothic horror with RE8. RE7 I don't like due to being too simplistic, low enemy variety, and Ethan story I don't find that interesting. The molded I do find boring, but I like the idea of Evelyn. Even if she is just a brattier Alma Wade. RE7 and the FEAR1 share the same writer by the way. Plus, RE7 did have some unique DLC with the first person brawling mode. The only other problem with RE7 was the cut content and taking out what should have been standard unlockable modes in to DLC. Many gamers and even a few gaming critics called them out on it.

Capcom is embracing their Japanese roots again, and just learning to make fun games again. DMC5 has some new and unique mechanics on top of refining the old stuff even better. I still dislike the lack of bonus costumes though, and something they need to stop doing. Street Fighter VI will be fun out of the game, and actually takes place after III and is no longer a prequel. Exoprimal looks like it can be fun, but I am willing to give it a shot out of curiosity, despite some concerns. Mega Man 11 and the new Ghost n Goblins game received great reception on all sides. It helps they have new blood in charge that wants to at least make good and fun games, not to constantly copy COD or Gears, nor "Westernize" on every single angle.
And so, you take your money where you want and I go with mine to where I want. You finance what you like, such as this direction, and I don't.
More power to you. It's why I offered those alternatives in the indie and AA scene. Those videos I posted for a reason, so you have options. Take it or leave it. You have the choice. Despite, disagreements with some decisions, I am not gonna give it up all together, because the new games don't cater to my every whim and desire to be exactly like the old ways. I am not implying you are, but I learn to temper my expectations. It's called enjoying life and moving on. I don't expect to enjoy everything, but I am not going to let it bring me down, nor constantly pine for the "old days". I rest my case.

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Goldsickle

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Yes, it was. Who said it wasn't?
My point is that Capcom had that "making money" mentality since the classics.
The way you talk implies that it's only for the later titles.

No, I don't think they went the direction they went because it was 'better' but because it was more popular.
And that's where you're dead wrong.
When it comes to the developer's intentions, as seen in multiple interviews and behind-the-scenes data, Mikami & co. didn't pick the newer format in 4 because "it was more popular".

You could try to prove your point by bringing up valid developer quotes but I predict you're gonna make excuses why you shouldn't provide evidence for your shallow claims, as usual.

It doesn't hurt that, as the director of both put it, it was basically him making the game he wanted to make but without the technological limitations.
Kinda irrelevant at this point, since after that, he thought the old style is "more of the same" from playing RE0.
Bringing up that he directed the RE1 remake is invalid, since his thoughts on the old style has changed since then.
As time passes, more people from within Capcom followed his change.

While money is a concern, it's not the sole reason for their development decisions.
As I mentioned earlier, even one of the fixed camera staff for the original RE1 worked on the RE2 remake and thought the over-the-shoulder angle works better.

The guys at Capcom genuinely liked the newer format and they have valid gameplay reasons for choosing the newer format.
This is just a very hard pill for you to swallow.

You also seem to love to ignore the idea that this was helped along because of the success of the remake's HD port.
Once again, that's what you want to believe.
And thanks for proving my point that you ignored about how the remake only got started because Hirabayashi submitted his pitch.
No pitch, no RE2 remake.
You're just gonna live in your own world at this point and keep parroting the "success of REmake HD" over and over, which will get you nowhere.

If you wanna be civil, you could provide some sort of evidence that shows REmake HD's supposed "success" somehow influencing Capcom to remake RE2, regardless whether Hirabayashi was there or not.

I followed the stories as it was happening.
There wouldn't be an RE2 remake if Hirabayashi did not submit his pitch to Capcom.

To begin, was REmake HD that successful?
Seems more like it didn't sell that much but people were just blowing its "record-breaking" sales out of proportion.

not sure what the argument is here.
The point is that any sort of "observational" puzzle that requires you to look around your surroundings for answers is watered down when the camera angle is fixed and shows you the solution.
When fixed camera is in play, there's no "other way" but to have the solution displayed in plain view of the player to be fair.

Well, sorry you don't see the appeal but I don't find it to be a gimmick.
Good thing you're not a game developer then.

Ultimately, it was nothing more than a format used to cover for the development team's limitations.
Fixed camera's cons is in the name: "fixed".
Something that hinders 3D gaming when you want to expand gameplay and other possibilities.

Maybe you wanna come up with some "counterarguments" that "there are something only possible with fixed camera" but even the guys at Capcom no longer agrees with that and think some of the "tricks" of fixed camera can be recreated with modern camera angles.

Any further arguments from you are limited to trying to convince others the "awesomeness" of the "atmosphere" created by spooky angles from under the table or outside the window.
From a game development point of view, it's not worth sacrificing game flexibility for these gimmick angles.
 
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BrawlMan

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To begin, was REmake HD that successful?
Seems more like it didn't sell that much but people were just blowing its "record-breaking" sales out of proportion.
Yes. It sure as hell did not look like an exaggeration in 2015, nor now. You still have your points, but I would not scoff nor downplay the HD re-release of RE1 Remake.


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Goldsickle

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Yes. It sure as hell did not look like an exaggeration in 2015, nor now. You still have your points, but I would not scoff nor downplay the HD re-release of RE1 Remake.
I don't think that's impressive, considering it took them about 4 months just to reach 1 million copies even though it was released in 5 different platforms.
This is when compared to something like RE5, that sold 5 million copies within 3 months.

The "breaking digital sales record" news is obviously blown out of proportion since the actual amount of the sales isn't specified.
When you consider the fact that it took 4 months for REmake HD to sell a million copies, the "record-breaking" sales must have been low.
 

BrawlMan

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I don't think that's impressive, considering it took them about 4 months just to reach 1 million copies even though it was released in 5 different platforms.
For you. I still think it's impressive and something to be happy about. I didn't have a problem with it, so I don't see what the big negative is.

This is when compared to something like RE5, that sold 5 million copies within 3 months.
No duh. Nobody's saying that it eclipses or comes close to what RE5 did. It's something that's hard out do, and not even RE6 managde do so. Actually, I take that back, RE6 managed to out sale RE5 but barely, and the sales started immediately dropping off afterward due to word of mouth.

The "breaking digital sales record" news is obviously blown out of proportion since the actual amount of the sales isn't specified.
When you consider the fact that it took 4 months for REmake HD to sell a million copies, the "record-breaking" sales must have been low.
Capcom and everyone else were clearly happy, so they did something right. I admit that I don't trust Game Rant, but the results are nothing to laugh at. Regardless, Capcom was satisfied, and the release did well as far as they were concerned. It helps that they didn't have overly high, to near impossible expectations like they did with RE6 and RE7. Something many AAA companies are still having trouble grasping, nor want to admit it.
 
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Goldsickle

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I didn't have a problem with it, so I don't see what the big negative is.
Just that certain people going on about how "the sales of REmake HD will determine the future of the franchise" that went around back when REmake HD's digital sales was blown out of proportion.
And this is said by the same hypocrites who downplayed RE5's sales, claiming that "sales are irrelevant" or that "Capcom shouldn't focus on sales".

To clarify, I don't have a direct problem with REmake HD selling, just all the exaggerations and hypocrisy that came along with it.
 
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BrawlMan

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Just that certain people going on about how "the sales of REmake HD will determine the future of the franchise" that went around back when REmake HD's digital sales was blown out of proportion.
And this is said by the same hypocrites who downplayed RE5's sales, claiming that "sales are irrelevant" or that "Capcom shouldn't focus on sales".

To clarify, I don't have a direct problem with REmake HD selling, just all the exaggerations and hypocrisy that came along with it.
Okay then. While it is important to call the haters out, don't get too focused on them, nor give them the attention they don't deserve. Ignore them, and let the know nothing imbeciles stew in their own misery. People like that are not worth the energy. I am just happy Capcom are making good and fun games again. That is all that matters to me and most others with sense.
 
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Health Drink

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When I seen the guy standing there saying that the remake of RE4 is also planned for the PS4, I feel like I didn't have to get a PS5 on eBay so soon. Well, it ain't that soon, I suppose. It came out in 2020 after all. But hopefully, you get my meaning.

That's great news for anyone who may not be able to afford or acquire a PS5. They are still rather hard to find. But I think you can apply to Sony if you want to be added to a waiting list. My big sister had to do that. But cheers is in order for Capcom here. They could have said no. :)
 

Goldsickle

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I am just happy Capcom are making good and fun games again.
The whole thing about Capcom not being "daring", "not taking risks" or not trying anything new is kinda bulls***, to be honest.
I don't follow the Street Fighter series but Street Fighter 6 looks like it's going to be something more than your average VS fighting game.
They were still making new IPs, like just a few years ago and then there's coming out next year.
 
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Health Drink

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Goldsickle, did you know that Capcom just revealed four new Resident Evil games during Tokyo Game Show? It's part of a new series. The Dulvey Saga.

Kidding. ;)

You will LOL - hard! :D

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BrawlMan

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The whole thing about Capcom not being "daring", "not taking risks" or not trying anything new is kinda bulls***, to be honest.
Vocal minority. I know these assholes (ScorePN being the most well know example) fester YouTube half the time, but most people with sense don't listen to them or drop their sorry asses.

I don't follow the Street Fighter series but Street Fighter 6 looks like it's going to be something more than your average VS fighting game.
Indeed. This is Capcom's most ambitious Street Fighter title, and I am more than looking forward to the new entry. This will be the best Street Fighter has ever gotten in a long time!