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Resident Evil (and survival horror in general), kind of disappoints me now...

Lain

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Even if the franchises still exist I think they made their best games on the 6th generation. Fatal Frame 2, Rule of Rose, Kuon, RE1's remake, CV, Clock Tower 3, SH2, Siren, Eternal Darkness, even DMC1, and so on and so.
It truly was the golden era. I would give my left arm for Fromsoft to make a successor to Kuon. :cry:
 
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BrawlMan

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Personally, I prefer the former but over the shoulder games are so common and accepted that a fix camera or even a classic survival horror style game would be far riskier than a more commonly accepted style. Well, the safer thing to do would be to do nothing, just leave it be, but if there is enough demand for something there is a risk worth taking.
And yet they went over-the-shoulder and most didn't complain. Aside from the really hardcore. I did not have a problem with the change, and respect them regardless. I am just glad to have Capcom back and there more sensible selves. Having new blood helps. While I miss fixed camera to some extent, I don't need to relive them again. Let the past be the past. Acknowledge it for the good and bad, but move on, and don't be held back by nostalgia goggles. I am not implying you are, btw.

RE4, Fatal Frame 2, Rule of Rose, Kuon, RE1's remake, CV, Clock Tower 3, SH2, Siren, Eternal Darkness, even DMC1, and so on and so.
Honestly, Eternal Darkness has not aged well in game play, and Rule of Rose ages even worse game play wise. If there is any games needing remakes, it would be those two. Code Veronica I just plain do not like.
 

Goldsickle

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I actually remember among the arguments for what "true Resident Evil" means, where some of the traits involve "puzzle-solving", "exploration" and "figuring things by yourself".

And these are watered down or ruined by fixed cameras.

Fixed camera's flaws are written on the tin: "fixed".
This limits what you can see, meaning that exploration is reduced, since everything that needs to be seen is presented before you.
Instead of finding things out on your own, certain objects stick out like a sore thumb, like convenient camera angles towards the manhole in the precinct kennel or the valve handle slot near the crashed chopper.
Fixed cameras also mean puzzles that require observation are kinda ruined, because some of the "cinematography" angles will reveal the puzzle solution easily, like the patterns in the precinct library shelves.

Some will try to argue that "fixed camera helps hide the enemies".
That might have been true and was the developer's intentions.

...20 years ago.

Today, a fixed camera director from the very first RE game actually thinks that the over-the-shoulder angle in the RE2 remake is "scarier".
He also talked about using camera angles to hide the enemies but added that those can still be done with modern angles, such as making use of the darkness, lighting and the level design.
Even the original developers have moved on.
 
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BrawlMan

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Even the original developers have moved on.
Nail on the head. I bet you there will be certain 'fans' out there saying "They are not true survival horror developers!!!", or whatever. You have some people that are truly stuck in the past and cannot let go. If they want the really "true survival horror experience": they should just keep playing those old Resident Evil and Silent Hill games again, or start looking for all the imitators.

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Goldsickle

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I bet you there will be certain 'fans' out there saying "They are not true survival horror developers!!!",
More like:

"All the veteran developers that created Resident Evil has left Capcom and the only ones behind are newbie/amateur developers who don't know anything about Resident Evil".

(Paraphrasing).

This quote isn't frequently mentioned but it's kinda recurring and a misconception.

A lot of the older staff are still hanging around and calling the shots.
RE2 remake's producer is the same staff who did motion captures for the GameCube port of RE1.
The director of RE2 remake is a programmer who worked on the original.
And as I mentioned, one of the staff who did fixed cameras on the original RE1 is also in the RE2 remake development team.

Once more, the team has moved on and all the modernization of the series, as well as the abolishing of the older style is something the team did out of their own free will.
 
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BrawlMan

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For those looking more so for that old school feel. Like I said before, start looking at the indie & AA scene. You got plenty to keep you company.

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thesaunderschild

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I don't have a problem with fixed camera angles switching to third person, as it's better anyway. But it's just that RE lost some of the charm once it became a do-bro murder fest.

The games may have been entertaining, but it just didn't feel right. For example, I don't like how you buy stuff in some of the games, rather than finding it. Some people find that cool, but it's not really my idea of survival horror. This is because I like to find something and be pleasantly surprised.

But I know this argument has been done to death. So meh.
 

berto

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And yet they went over-the-shoulder and most didn't complain. Aside from the really hardcore.
And therein lies the conundrum. To make a classic survival horror game would be to make something for the hardcore, not for the public. You can make something that was just like those games of old but who but a handful of people will play it.

and Rule of Rose ages even worse game play wis
I really don't mind it. It's part of the experience and while I do wish they'd tighten the swings to feel less rigid, I don't have an issue with playing the game as it is. Well, that's not true either. I don't mind playing the game as is MOST of the time. That mermaid boss fight really has a disparity between gameplay and combat.
 

BrawlMan

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And therein lies the conundrum. To make a classic survival horror game would be to make something for the hardcore, not for the public. You can make something that was just like those games of old but who but a handful of people will play it.
Yep, and Capcom knew this and made a smart decision. I don't blame them, nor hate them for it. Ditching the fixed camera does not make RE2Remake and RE3Remake any less survival horror. If those so called hardcores want to live in the past that badly, they're free to do so. Either play the old games again and again, or start looking at the indie and some of the AA market. I could not give a damn either way. As much as I love gaming from the 90s and early 2000s, they were not perfect paradises either. There is plenty I rather not go back towards.

I really don't mind it. It's part of the experience and while I do wish they'd tighten the swings to feel less rigid, I don't have an issue with playing the game as it is. Well, that's not true either. I don't mind playing the game as is MOST of the time. That mermaid boss fight really has a disparity between gameplay and combat.
Exactly why I don't have the patience for it. I am all for games are art and all, but I have my own limits and standards. If the gameplay is complete crap and not good, or is too frustrating, I am not going to waste time. If I want to play a Clock Tower style game, I got plenty of options to choose from. Just give me the first two Clock Tower games (not the awful Ghost Head "sequel"), and Haunting Ground.
 
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thesaunderschild

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I'd hate to find out Capcom removed Krauser from the RE4 remake. He is an important part of the plot. It's because of his interference, that Ashley was taken to Spain. That's why the Los Illuminados had the upper hand. So if he's gone, then what the hell will they do to explain how she ended up there?

Capcom, stop cutting content!
 

BrawlMan

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You have some points Yahtzee, but you're part of the problem. I don't like to blame the audience on anything, but y'all keep buying RE4 on every console, Android, and PC imaginable. That's part of the reason why Capcom is remaking it in the first place. People love RE2 Remake, and most people like RE3 Remake! Why are you this upset or surprised?! What the hell you think was going to happen? You even admitted that you have nostalgia bias, so it shouldn't be this surprising.

I actually look forward to the RE4 remake, because it's going to do something different. If it was exactly like the old one, you and everyone else will complain! Leon can still do roundhouse kicks or suplexes, and I'll be okay with that. I just want them to drop all the lazy qtes that insta kill you. As long as they do that and allow you to move and shoot in the same time like they did with the previous remakes, I have no problems. As I said before, I've been so done with everyone sucking og RE4's genitals. I know I'm the odd man out compared to a lot of people, but I don't care. It's why opinions exist anyway.


And another thing: For the last ****ing time, RE4 did not move away from the canon at all! Ada and later Wesker show up! It was always going to bounce back! You are indenial about it, Yahtzee. Making them new IPs would not have done much good either. Plus, two different iterations became their own games anyway. There are the Evil Within games, but you hated those for either being "too much like RE4!", or "too much like LOUS!" respectively.

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thesaunderschild

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And as we predicted, the new RE Netflix series has already gotten semi-positive, to mostly negative reviews from the fans.

Raccoon City!
Raccoon City!
Raccoon City!
1998!
1998!
1998!
Umbrella!
Umbrella!
Umbrella!

I will have an umbrella for when it rains, surely...

But seriously, though. We have all had Raccoon City up the ass for years now, as they just can never seem to stop going back to that era to churn out more crap, or the occasional worthy remake, or something. But I mean, they blew up the darn city way back in the original RE3 - which was released all the way back in 1999 for the PlayStation. And we're into the PS5 period now. So this milking tactic is pretty old, and actually quite annoying now.

But when it comes to different storylines for new games, I reckon I'm all for having those. You know? There's so many characters we would like to see coming back. Like, how about Billy Coen? Rebecca Chambers? Alex Wesker? They've all been forgotten about. Of course, that's just a few. There's quite a lot more characters they've just never featured in anything in like, forever.

But it always has to be...

Raccoon City!
Raccoon City!
Raccoon City!

It's honestly tiring me out...
 
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thesaunderschild

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Maybe I take talking about the series way too seriously. LOL. But they have been milking it for too long. :D

I would rather have gotten a new game, even if it were a side story. Like the Outrage game that was talked about in the past. It sounded more like RE. Zombie type things in a university where Rebecca works. Yeah. We could have gotten on board with that.

But lately, Capcom has been on the nostalgia train, going out of control. No working brakes, unfortunately!
 

thesaunderschild

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When I post about RE on other forums, I get the impression a lot of the users on those crappy message boards are being snide half of the time, and just taken the Mickey. So they don't deserve to hear my thoughts anymore. I'm not going to waste my time composing a novel if they're not even interested in my opinions.

Either they aren't really fans of the franchise, or they only started playing the series with 4, 7 or the RE2 remake. Which is okay. Maybe they're young pups that never owned a PS2, or whatever. But man. You cannot be a know-it-all about RE if you say you don't even like the old games.

They're like the "fans" who hate RE3 for cutting content, yet they defend the RE2 reimagining and never even mention the cut content, in the same way RE5 is basically the same type of game as RE4, but they glorify RE4 and act like 5 is terrible. Well, on single player it is. But the story is somewhat better than 4 is.

It all just comes across as a tad bit silly, to be honest.
 
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BrawlMan

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When I post about RE on other forums, I get the impression a lot of the users on those crappy message boards are being snide half of the time, and just taken the Mickey. So they don't deserve to hear my thoughts anymore. I'm not going to waste my time composing a novel if they're not even interested in my opinions.

Either they aren't really fans of the franchise, or they only started playing the series with 4, 7 or the RE2 remake. Which is okay. Maybe they're young pups that never owned a PS2, or whatever. But man. You cannot be a know-it-all about RE if you say you don't even like the old games.

They're like the "fans" who hate RE3 for cutting content, yet they defend the RE2 reimagining and never even mention the cut content, in the same way RE5 is basically the same type of game as RE4, but they glorify RE4 and act like 5 is terrible. Well, on single player it is. But the story is somewhat better than 4 is.

It all just comes across as a tad bit silly, to be honest.
That's the best thing you can do. Screw them and forget about them. For all the grief RE3 Remake got, it's still sold well and has plenty of fans. I know there's backlash and some of the contrarians have points, but they act like the game shot their parents. I do know Score PN actually called out the cutting of content in RE2 Remake, but that doesn't excuse the attitude he has on people who like RE7 and RE8. He calls them false fans and "not true RE fans". I don't like RE7 and RE8 (Gold Edition might change my mind, since it has a third person mode, but it's not going to be an instant buy for me), but I'm not going to go out of my way to harass and bully people for enjoying them or just being even curious about it. He actually lost some subscribers for that. He's another "angry" grifter with insecurities and feels Capcom owes him everything. They and other sensible re fans don't owe you sh#t.
 
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thesaunderschild

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I do think they've oversaturated the series by going back to 1998 repeatedly. We get it. That was when the series peaked, I suppose. But I feel like Capcom solely relies on that era.

The only two RE games we had set in Raccoon City before it was destroyed were RE2 and 3. The other games were made years later, and only a few of these titles are fully canonical. But they just keep on doing it.

I even see now, they're copying their own games. Claire being on a prison island in Revelations 2 is essentially the same concept as what occurred in CV, and many aspects of RE8 are directly lifted from RE4. So you can tell Capcom are just recycling the same ideas, and I guess they won't stop if it sells.
 
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BrawlMan

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Claire being on a prison island in Revelations 2 is essentially the same concept as what occurred in CV, and many aspects of RE8 are directly lifted from RE4. So you can tell Capcom are just recycling the same ideas, and I guess they won't stop if it sells.
I pointed this out years ago with Revelations 2. My main problem with the Revelations games in general, is that they might as well exist in their own pocket universe. Especially Rev2; Capcom will never follow up on that ending, so I tend ignore that extra teaser after the credits. Everyone called RE8, RE4Remake part 1 along time ago when more gameplay was revealed, and most did not have a problem with it. Though some had complaints after beating the game and said not much memorable had happened. Even Rose's DLC is built off of Natalia's end game gameplay from Revelation 2, where the protag fights in a dream-virus state. And Revelations 2 was just cribbing notes from Saw and Evil Within 1. For the record, Shinji Mikami came on Rev2 as a contract producer.
 
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thesaunderschild

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Revelations 2 was a The Last of Us wannabe.

In the former game, you fight a Vulcan Blubber or whatever it's called, and it is a lot like the Bloater. The only real difference is that it tosses fire rather than spores. You also have running zombie like enemies too in a room and shelves to duck behind. After the fight ends, you go out of a window over to the left side of the room. Plus, you have two companions who assist you in both games while this is going on.

There's also a winter section and a part where you go to a dam. Even the crafting system they employ is very similar as well. Like, it's very much identical.

Plus, Barry is kind of like Joel, if you think about it.