Overhaul & Rewrite Devil May Cry 4- Special Edition.

[BlackAngel]

I got to thinking about DMC4 and how the playable characters such as Vergil, Lady, and Trish have such potential and how Capcom wasted it. The reason why I feel that Capcom wasted it, is because all of them play the same levels of the main story. Instead of playing different characters with their unique stories, levels, enemies, side characters, and bosses. It would've been more enjoyable and awesome, if you get to play as Vergil on Fortuna from the beginning. Which it would serve as a prequel to DMC 3 to get to know how he fully embrace his demonic nature, and forsake his humanity.

But what would you guys would have done if your were a writer/director of the Special Edition? Feel free to post your thoughts!

 

[V's patron]

I'd separate the campaigns and make them shorter. People would be more open to playing Nero if they weren't stuck playing as him.

Trish being Gloria is the most interesting thing in 4's story. Her campaign would be exploring how she went undercover in the first place. I had a morbid idea of Gloria having a husband who goes after Trish for killing his wife. But that might be too edgy.

Lady's campaign I'd probably cut and keep it at 4. I couldn't think of an interesting dilemma for her.

Nero/Dante/Vergil's campaign should parallel each other.

This game had a lot of cut content so I'd have to look through that first. Nero's the weak link but there aren't easy ways to fix him.

@Lain's post in the other thread felt like the best option without scrapping 4 completely and starting from scratch.

 

[BlackAngel]

But why does Trish went in disguise in the first place? It's not like they know about her, and she's the one who caused all of this mess in the first place. It doesn't make any sense why she gave them the Sparda, if she could take them all by herself.

So by all means Dante and Lady shouldn't be in the DMC4 story at all, if Trish was in Fortuna and she's a formidable woman.

 

[Vergil95]

I got to thinking about DMC4 and how the playable characters such as Vergil, Lady, and Trish have such potential and how Capcom wasted it. The reason why I feel that Capcom wasted it, is because all of them play the same levels of the main story. Instead of playing different characters with their unique stories, levels, enemies, side characters, and bosses. It would've been more enjoyable and awesome, if you get to play as Vergil on Fortuna from the beginning. Which it would serve as a prequel to DMC 3 to get to know how he fully embrace his demonic nature, and forsake his humanity.

But what would you guys would have done if your were a writer/director of the Special Edition? Feel free to post your thoughts!

Yeah this would Have been all nice, to bad that in order to do that Capcom should have used a lot of money and work, it's almost making an entirely new game from the start, and the should have price it a 70 bucks instead of 25 and nobody would have buyed a 10 years old game at 70 just because there is special edition written on it lol especially considering the state in Which the series sales where at the time, special edition sold well also because of its low price

 

[V's patron]

But why does Trish went in disguise in the first place? It's not like they know about her, and she's the one who caused all of this mess in the first place. It doesn't make any sense why she gave them the Sparda, if she could take them all by herself.

So by all means Dante and Lady shouldn't be in the DMC4 story at all, if Trish was in Fortuna and she's a formidable woman.

Reconnaissanc? Old habits? Trish was created to be a double agent by Mundus, maybe she just has a interest in subterfuge?

Its a cool Unique Selling Point for a Lady/Trish spinoff. They try and infiltrate bad guy organizations before they get too big/bad.

 

[Vergil95]

Vw

But why does Trish went in disguise in the first place? It's not like they know about her, and she's the one who caused all of this mess in the first place. It doesn't make any sense why she gave them the Sparda, if she could take them all by herself.

So by all means Dante and Lady shouldn't be in the DMC4 story at all, if Trish was in Fortuna and she's a formidable woman

Because dante and company don't 100% know if the order have bad intention, did you heard what lady says while talking to dante in the dmc shop?

So trish went there undercover to find out the truth, before they kill some innocent whitout reason
Trish gave them the Sparda in order to gain their trust and secure a place in the order council
Why did she disguised herself? Well probably because the order know that trish is a Davil hunter, many people know about her in the anime, also the order probably keep an eye on dante they know trish was around the devil may cry shop working whit dante, also she look exactly like sparda s wife, maybe the order know how she looks like it would have been suspicious... But i guess the first option is more likely

After the member had participated in the ascension ceremony and wanted to restore the savior by using the Sparda and dante in order to fulfill sanctus dark plan , trish had enough proof, than dante himself shows at fortuna and sensing that the order member have demon power begin to eliminate every one of them

 

[V's patron]

@BlackAngel
Most of 4's problems are budget reasons which is what it is.

I'd bring back Dante's cut bosses and put them in his campaign.

Nero's story is harder to fix so I'd focus on a Vergil campaign instead. It would be set in the past and deal with the mystery of their connection. I don't really care about him being Nero's father but other people do so I'd leave it up to them to figure out.

I don't like Nero because he comes across as "discount dante with the bad parts of BLEACH". Ironically I like his initial concept art more than the final product.

4's story problems are the same as the anime. Its a bunch of poorly used anime cliches that I find tiresome. 4 gets by because its a game with plenty of humor. Most of Dante's campaign is filler but he has a few good jokes here and there.

I prefer 5 to 4 because I think Bingo and Itsuno have more to say about family than they do about love. So focusing on a love story they aren't even interested felt like a mistake. I would have just did the Vergil connection stuff instead.

@Picard had a thread about the behind the scenes content.

 

[BlackAngel]

Reconnaissanc? Old habits? Trish was created to be a double agent by Mundus, maybe she just has a interest in subterfuge?

Its a cool Unique Selling Point for a Lady/Trish spinoff. They try and infiltrate bad guy organizations before they get too big/bad.

But the way it was executed was way off and it's pretty bad. Now, they could've made a story about Nero was investigating a secret society who are involved in ritual killings. And follow rumors of a satanic festival that can grant them power. And have players play as Kyrie to help Nero with the mission.

Vw

Because dante and company don't 100% know if the order have bad intention, did you heard what lady says while talking to dante in the dmc shop?

So trish went there undercover to find out the truth, before they kill some innocent whitout reason
Trish gave them the Sparda in order to gain their trust and secure a place in the order council
Why did she disguised herself? Well probably because the order know that trish is a Davil hunter, many people know about her in the anime, also the order probably keep an eye on dante they know trish was around the devil may cry shop working whit dante, also she look exactly like sparda s wife, maybe the order know how she looks like it would have been suspicious... But i guess the first option is more likely

After the member had participated in the ascension ceremony and wanted to restore the savior by using the Sparda and dante in order to fulfill sanctus dark plan , trish had enough proof, than dante himself shows at fortuna and sensing that the order member have demon power begin to eliminate every one of them

But the whole thing doesn't make any sense, why she gave them the sword. And helped them with the Savior thing. If anything, she could've sabotage their operations by herself. And from how she plays on the Special Edition, she doesn't need any help from Dante. And how would they know what she looked like? And they're secluded into their town, and it's never confirmed that they have spies.

 

[Vergil95]

But the way it was executed was way off and it's pretty bad. Now, they could've made a story about Nero was investigating a secret society who are involved in ritual killings. And follow rumors of a satanic festival that can grant them power. And have players play as Kyrie to help Nero with the mission.

But the whole thing doesn't make any sense, why she gave them the sword. And helped them with the Savior thing. If anything, she could've sabotage their operations by herself. And from how she plays on the Special Edition, she doesn't need any help from Dante. And how would they know what she looked like? And they're secluded into their town, and it's never confirmed that they have spies.

I already give you an answer on why she give them the sword and the rest lol

Let me clerify, the sword is uselles alone, in order for the savior to be activated it need dante blood and the Sparda
the Sparda alone can't do anything, trish and dante have the situation under control even whit the Sparda in sactus hand, also no one in the entire world would have been able to capture Dante and use it to form the savior s core, but than nero another descendent of sparda s blood was captured and things went wrong, nothing that big, Infact dante easy destroyed all the hell gate and freed Nero

Quoting Sactus: "oh it's you gloria, unfortunately you do not anticipated a discendent of sparda s blood and because of this boy now the savior will be completed"

So as you can see trish give them the Sparda to gaine they're trust and secure a position in the order council to spy on them and understand if they have bad intention like lady says or if they just collect devil arm to open a zoo like dante says XD trish dosent care if they have the sword because she knows the sword is useless and nobody can use the sword power, Infact only a descendent of sparda or someone who understand sparda s heart can use it s power

quoting sactus again: "the power of sparda, why don't you give me strength? I'm I not worthy?"
So as you can see the Sparda sword is useless, if you are not worthy of it something already proven by arkham not been able to transform the force edge into the Sparda despite having the two amulet

So, things only Changed when nero was captured, thris and dante didn't know vergil had a son, meaning another sparda descendent to use for the savior

Even dante himself tend to go undercover especially in the anime, in episode 09 death poker dante went undercover to lower king guard and understand who is this king demon
He could have easily killed everyone in the ship, but why kills innocent people whitout any reason? Even in the episode in which he infiltrate the prison, he could have easily destroyed the whole prison from the start and killed everyone but he didn't because he wanted to understand what the hell was going on in that prison


in dmc 4 not all the people in the order of the sword are bad, for example kyrie, credo and nero where good people they just follow Sactus order who is the real bad guy, that's why trish went undercover to find out the truth before slaughter innocent whitout reason lol

The game have some problem, but this things in the story make perfectly sense

 

[V's patron]

@BlackAngel
That's why I added a Trish campaign, to help smooth that story thread out.

I think you are advocating a bigger rewrite than what would be plausible for a Special Edition.

 

[Morgan]

Well, the title does also say overhaul as well as rewrite so who cares about plausibility, honestly.

Main point: Make Dante, Trish, and Lady less dumb to begin with and have the characters' campaigns as follows.

Lady: Her MO after 3 is "stopping demons like my father from ever coming about again", and demons like her father are humans who seek demonic power for selfish reasons, so she should be the first person firing a bullet in Sanctus's general direction but instead she was on some "dey took 'er jerbs!!!!" b.s. so give her a slightly-before-4 campaign where she investigates Fortuna and the Order and what they're about [she may or may not encounter a woman in the Order who's sussing her out] then reports to Dante with her findings to get him on board. She's also not voiced by Kate Higgins.

Dante Part 1: He not on board at first and he's cranky. He may or may not also be a drunk but it's presented 100% as the completely uncool trait that it is. Lady throws in his face that he's upset about Trish leaving... again. The first time was because she wanted to freelance and the second time she didn't bother telling him anything and he hasn't heard word of a blonde with lightning abilities around the world or anywhere. Whatever. Lady leaves, Dante goes about his business until his shop gets ransacked with him in it, Eva's portrait is broken and Dante's weapons stolen [Sparda, Pandora, Gilgamesh, Lucifer, etc]. He has a boss fight with the nameless assailant who shows off an Ascended form proving Lady's suspicions correct. Dante loses the fight because he's not in top shape. The nameless assailant marks Fortuna on a map and tosses Trish's bracer at Dante as a taunt. Dante gets his act together, shows up to Fortuna and shoots the Pope. Gets a boss fight with Human Form Credo.

Nero Part 1: When Dante shows up to shoot the Pope, Nero gets Kyrie to safety then goes back in to help Credo out, cue Nero vs Dante fight to give a diff POV on what it's like to fight against Dante rather than as him. The assailant from point 2 shows up for the assist, who is Gloria for people that don't like putting 2 and 2 together. Dante leaves. Nero's ordered to investigate Dante's presence in Fortuna so cue his campaign happening close-to-as-is except instead of b.s. "he beats the bosses once and they escape so that Dante can Kill Them For Real but still not get them as Devil Arms", he absorbs them wholly into the DB and gets the Chaos Legion gimmick of summoning them and/or using their related powers to traverse the map and kill enemies or imbue his DB with their element. He awakens Yamato, all that other junk. Nero fights Angelo Credo after Credo is tricked into fighting him, but Kyrie is there. Instead of her getting kidnapped in the most useless scene to ever have a kidnapping, Agnus frames what's going on with Credo and Nero as a matter of emotional compromise and weak will (a.k.a. neither Nero nor Credo have what it takes to actually save Fortuna), so Kyrie takes it upon herself to make up for their failures by assisting Sanctus in a demon-free utopia where her brother and boyfriend cannot. She's obviously not told about being a battery to the Savior but whatever. Nero pursues Kyrie and Agnus across the rest of the map, fights Dante the second time and everything, but when Gloria shows up, Gloria doesn't apprehend Dante even though she was ordered to. She instead knocks Nero out and gives him over to Sanctus to use as a battery for the Savior.

Gloria: She gains a separate campaign from there to reveal that she used to be Trish but abandoned that identity. Not only was she tired of being a lightning-powered Eva clone, Mundus wouldn't allow his creations to live independently from him in case they betrayed him so he created her with a self-destruct failsafe. She at least had some consideration to not die anywhere near Dante so she left the office for a "final" time and traveled elsewhere. Wound up in Dumary where they (probably Matier) extracted Mundus's failsafe and contained it in the Evil Heart, and gave Trish the Healing Heart to recover from the damage it caused. She adopted the name Gloria and changed her look and fighting style to distance herself further from Mundus [and Dante by extension]. Whispers in Dumary about Fortuna's shady actions prompted Gloria to investigate but she was caught by Agnus and experimented on to give her the Angela Gloria form, forgetting her former life as Trish and allegiance to Dumary as a byproduct. She's all better now thanks to a boss fight with Dante to knock her back into her senses before they encountered Nero that second time. Anyway she knocks Nero out and hands him to Sanctus to use as a battery, but Dante isn't there and Sanctus doesn't have the Yamato in his possession. Gloria passes it off as Dante having stolen it from Nero sometime before she encountered him, and she had to apprehend Nero before he complicated Sanctus's plans since Credo didn't do it. Sanctus accepts that reasoning because he didn't read the script ahead of time or google search "Who is Gloria" before the scene even happens.

Dante Part 2: Starts with a boss fight against Angelo Credo because Credo is 10000% aggravated that he's about to lose both his sister and brother-in-law to a despotic old man being helped by people who should know better. Dante defeats Credo to make sure he doesn't go on a suicidal mission to stop Sanctus. Gloria and Credo help evacuate the people and destroy demons and Bianco Angelo armors where needed. The rest of the campaign to destroy the Hellgates happens as-is except Dante doesn't have to re-fight any of Nero's bosses, and he gets his weapons back. And everyone rejoiced, because re-fighting the same exact bosses in the same exact environments is a waste of everyone's time. Dante also has the Yamato, because letting Nero remove it from Agnus's lab in the vanilla story only for Sanctus to get it and give it back to Agnus was also a waste of everyone's time. I mean, they really could have shortened that to Nero getting his DT and Agnus managing to sucker punch him and steal the Yamato anyway for the rest of the plan to go through, but I guess this is why I'm not working for Capcom. Anyway while Dante is doing this, the Savior is drawing energy from the bosses Nero absorbed into his DB. That's not as bad as a scenario where Dante was used as the battery, because Nero's unique ability to absorb other devils serves to have their power act as a buffer to his life force. The Savior has to drain three devil bosses worth of energy before it gets to Nero directly and draws from his strength. Dante totally knew all of this, because being more intelligent than he lets on is Absolutely A Thing. The campaign closes out with Dante fighting the Savior [directly controlled by Kyrie inside the Mind Core, cue highly telegraphed attacks], where Dante gives Nero the Yamato so that he can wake up and get Kyrie out of there.

Nero Part 2: Remove the dice game. Nero fights through newer versions of Berial/Echidna/Bael+Dagon that function as hybrids/fusions of each other since their energy was being mixed into the Savior and becoming less distinct. Nero re-absorbs them into his DB and gets even more skills. The rest of the campaign continues as-is, with Nero rescuing Kyrie.

Vergil: Has a gravestone with his name on it that can be spotted in the background of a random mission or other. His inclusion in the series was a mistake.

 

[V's patron]

@BlackAngel
At the time, I just wanted more Young Dante games. At the time people confused Nero for Dante at a younger age. So I would just have Dante raised in Fortuna before leaving to go be a solo demon hunter. The game's plot would revolve around Kyrie asking him to return to Fortuna years later. The game would jump between two time periods. One where Dante is 16 and the other where Dante is 26/27.

I liked your idea about Nero investigating murders in a small town. I'd make him a traveling artist who gets involved reluctantly. He was ostracized as a kid because of his third eye. So him solving the murders is a way for him to avoid suspicion.

 

[BlackAngel]

@BlackAngel
At the time, I just wanted more Young Dante games. At the time people confused Nero for Dante at a younger age. So I would just have Dante raised in Fortuna before leaving to go be a solo demon hunter. The game's plot would revolve around Kyrie asking him to return to Fortuna years later. The game would jump between two time periods. One where Dante is 16 and the other where Dante is 26/27.

I liked your idea about Nero investigating murders in a small town. I'd make him a traveling artist who gets involved reluctantly. He was ostracized as a kid because of his third eye. So him solving the murders is a way for him to avoid suspicion.

Nero should be raised by The Order of the Sword, when he was no more than an infant. And it would be fitting if they stuck with the original idea of Nero have detective skills to solve murders, track down demons, occultists, satanists, and witches to dispose of them to prevent supernatural disasters.

And they should rewrite the Order of the Sword as an ancient secret society that was dedicated to rid the world of supernatural evil. They were first formed after humanity won the Great War with Sparda, and The Crusades with the Knights Templar.

And Dante should be out of DMC4 completely. And they should write his backstory as tragic, horrible, and dark past when his mother was slaughtered by demons. I would suggest that they should learn, and take inspiration from Berserk when the Eclipse happened.

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[BlackAngel]

I already give you an answer on why she give them the sword and the rest lol

Let me clerify, the sword is uselles alone, in order for the savior to be activated it need dante blood and the Sparda
the Sparda alone can't do anything, trish and dante have the situation under control even whit the Sparda in sactus hand, also no one in the entire world would have been able to capture Dante and use it to form the savior s core, but than nero another descendent of sparda s blood was captured and things went wrong, nothing that big, Infact dante easy destroyed all the hell gate and freed Nero

Quoting Sactus: "oh it's you gloria, unfortunately you do not anticipated a discendent of sparda s blood and because of this boy now the savior will be completed"

So as you can see trish give them the Sparda to gaine they're trust and secure a position in the order council to spy on them and understand if they have bad intention like lady says or if they just collect devil arm to open a zoo like dante says XD trish dosent care if they have the sword because she knows the sword is useless and nobody can use the sword power, Infact only a descendent of sparda or someone who understand sparda s heart can use it s power

quoting sactus again: "the power of sparda, why don't you give me strength? I'm I not worthy?"
So as you can see the Sparda sword is useless, if you are not worthy of it something already proven by arkham not been able to transform the force edge into the Sparda despite having the two amulet

So, things only Changed when nero was captured, thris and dante didn't know vergil had a son, meaning another sparda descendent to use for the savior

Even dante himself tend to go undercover especially in the anime, in episode 09 death poker dante went undercover to lower king guard and understand who is this king demon
He could have easily killed everyone in the ship, but why kills innocent people whitout any reason? Even in the episode in which he infiltrate the prison, he could have easily destroyed the whole prison from the start and killed everyone but he didn't because he wanted to understand what the hell was going on in that prison


in dmc 4 not all the people in the order of the sword are bad, for example kyrie, credo and nero where good people they just follow Sactus order who is the real bad guy, that's why trish went undercover to find out the truth before slaughter innocent whitout reason lol

The game have some problem, but this things in the story make perfectly sense

Ok, here's a couple of things wrong with this. First off: Why is Dante confused when he saw Nero? He should've known right away that's his son, since they look exactly alike. Second: Why Trish wants to give Sparda to the Order, and they would've completed the Savior and take over the world easily? (That's not very smart, at all) If anything, she could take them all out by herself, so she doesn't even need Dante's help.

That's why DMC 4 needs a rewrite to start off with Vergil, a character who was the member of the order who rescued Nero from demons, Nero who was raised by the Order, and Kyrie was recruited because of her inborn gift of magic. And Dante, Trish, and Lady should stay out of DMC4, unless they're making a story based DLC for them.

 

[V's patron]

Having Nero be the sole lead of 4 is a valid choice. It's just a riskier option and could go either way. It be easier to just do another young Dante game.

Nero's the weak point of 4 so I'd have to fix him first. Scrapping Dante, Trish, Lady, vergil and giving their roles and mission to other characters could help.

Granted creating new lead characters are hard and thats something every franchise deals with. Nero was always gonna have some growing pains.

 

[BlackAngel]

Having Nero be the sole lead of 4 is a valid choice. It's just a riskier option and could go either way. It be easier to just do another young Dante game.

Nero's the weak point of 4 so I'd have to fix him first. Scrapping Dante, Trish, Lady, vergil and giving their roles and mission to other characters could help.

Granted creating new lead characters are hard and thats something every franchise deals with. Nero was always gonna have some growing pains.

Exactly.

 

[ef9dante_oSsshea]

I'll keep this to the point lol, scrap kyrie being absorbed and have nero be the one who powers the saviour.Credo betrays nero and captures him for it, then asks dante to save him after losing in battle and realising what he had done.

Play the whole campaign as dante, closing the hellgates, and beating the current bosses and new ones since there wouldn't be a need for dante to replay nero's missions and path

Have dante free Nero, then in the epilogue you have Nero fight dante, and his uncle pulls a vergil and stabs him with yamato as an experiment and unleashes his partial dt.

Nero attacks him but gets pinned like the second fight, and dante entrusts the sword to him and tells him he will be back for it later.

As for the se related stuff, have vergil play a shorter campaign but in the past with new enemies not seen before.

Lady and trish I'd have them rescuing civilains and fighting lesser demons and in new map areas.

 

[V's patron]

Rereading the behind scenes stuff @Picard and @BlackAngel posted, I'd say the mistake they made was settling on making Nero like DMC3 Dante. I might've preffered the "nobleman detective" angle. Like a young Sherlock Holmes ie.

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It would've helped him standout more than he did initially. Granted I have more affinty for sherlock holmes than BLEACH so it's my own bias at work.

It's easier to write him off as Dante-lite because the game doesn't really explore what seperates them beyond the surface. If he's suppose to be an outcast or really only care about Kyrie, those are things the story should explore or challenge more thoroughly. He's not that interesting or believable as a cynical tough guy. In 5 he improves after the second Urizen fight because he drops the tough guy act and becomes more sincere. So either make him a goofball like Kuwabara from Yu Yu Hakusho or lean into the surliness like Shinjiro from Persona 3.

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Making Kyrie playable could help with the love story angle. Most video game love stories tend to work when both characters are controllable. So handling their relationship like this fanfic could be interesting. Ed and Orihime works better because they play off each other well and challenge each other from time to time. I actually wish Orihime was written this well in Bleach.

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Her becoming a villian is a cool but hard to do with what we have. Someone like NiCo from Dead or Alive 6 would be more fitting. She works for the bad guys because she wants to ressurect her father. It's an interesting more dilemma for Nero and Kyrie to face together.

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[Picard]

@Picard had a thread about the behind the scenes content.

Is it this one?

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[V's patron]

Is it this one?

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It's this one actually.