Out of Style - Dante's Controls

TWOxACROSS

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True! I always forget about that because having to switch to Trickster just to close a gap, then switch back to GS/SM is annoying so I never do it. Which is actually a good example of why Dante needs updated controls. :laugh:
Case in point! And while Stinger is a nice option, Air Trick has invincibility frames, so it's a perfect way to move toward a target and past dangers. Plus, Stinger can get stopped if something gets in between you and your target.
 

DarkSlayer54

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On an unrelated note, I've been wondering if Capcom should bring back Quicksilver and/or Doppelganger. Maybe in the form of DT upgrades like we got in DMC2?
I definitely hope so. They could even be items like in DMC1.
 

berto

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having to switch to Trickster just to close a gap, then switch back to GS/SM is annoying so I never do it. Which is actually a good example of why Dante needs updated controls.
I thought about that, too. It's another one of those things that should have a dedicated function. the air dash. It's something that you should be able to do immediately, in one fell swoop, not 2 or 3. It's just making you jump through a hoop to pull of a pretty essetian move. Imagine having to do something like that for a dodge or jump.

But, hey! Just git gud, eh? (I hate those wankers almost as much as people who want games to play themselves.)

My solution for that would be pushing dodge and jump in mid air to pull off a air dash. It's just as simple as the angel dash and with a little practice and forgiving timing you could commit it to muscle memory before long.
 

absolitude

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i think part of what made the gameplay rather unfriendly in 4 was the UI and hud. there's just too much going on and it's rather distracting, and it being visually detailed is not helping either..

i think they should simplify it a bit..

and i prefer weapons to be put on the pads instead while the style and the likes on the shoulder..

DmC had proved me that it works better and easier to getting used to.. plus the training room needs to be there
 

TWOxACROSS

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So hey, yeah, hi! With the addition of a certain powerful new weapon, I'd like to revisit this topic. Spoilers, obviously...

As a refresher, I feel that Dante's control scheme, while obviously usable, was outdated, with the control philosophy turned on its ear with DMC4se's appearance of Nero, Vergil, Trish, and Lady, and DmC's Dante (and Vergil, I guess). I posited that there's no reason for Dante to still use a control scheme from 14 years ago (good lord). Primarily, I just really hated not being able to do ground and air combos with the same button - like literally every other character in the series. It was also just terribly clunky user experience for Aerial Rave to be on a separate button, which also demanded a corresponding Style be selected. Anyway...

Enter the Devil Sword Sparda in DMC5, which literally puts Aerial Rave on the Sword Attack button, and shuffles Helm Splitter to a R1+Back input. What a big ol' surprise~ As cool as Dante getting phantom swords is, the DSD also makes Swordmaster mostly superfluous.

Of course, the weapon isn't perfect, since it puts Prop Shredder into a combo, which takes a bit of freedom away, and Drive being a back-forward input is...iffy for something that has to charge up. It's also aggressively boring and ugly-looking.

But whatever! It's so crazy that they introduced a weapon that made a portion of the Style system obsolete, when everyone told me that "nuh-uh, Dante needs the Style system to function." Additionally, Gerbera kind of craps on the dismissal of integrated Style as well. People said that we need different buttons or stances for Trickster and Royal Guard, when I had said Trickster could simply be tilt inputs, while Royal Guard was stationary inputs. Lo and behold, Gerbera is literally exactly that. You dodge with a tilt and deflect with a stationary input. Release could be a hold, like how Break Ages work. Or...we could still simply toss Royal Guard in the recycling (save the planet, kids). I went through fighting Cavalier and deliberately parried the hell out of it, why would I use something so passive? It also never, ever fight with Dante thematically.
 

V's patron

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I feel like you don't need the style buttons anymore as whatever they do could be weapon-specific.
 

DarkSlayer54

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So hey, yeah, hi! With the addition of a certain powerful new weapon, I'd like to revisit this topic. Spoilers, obviously...

As a refresher, I feel that Dante's control scheme, while obviously usable, was outdated, with the control philosophy turned on its ear with DMC4se's appearance of Nero, Vergil, Trish, and Lady, and DmC's Dante (and Vergil, I guess). I posited that there's no reason for Dante to still use a control scheme from 14 years ago (good lord). Primarily, I just really hated not being able to do ground and air combos with the same button - like literally every other character in the series. It was also just terribly clunky user experience for Aerial Rave to be on a separate button, which also demanded a corresponding Style be selected. Anyway...

Enter the Devil Sword Sparda in DMC5, which literally puts Aerial Rave on the Sword Attack button, and shuffles Helm Splitter to a R1+Back input. What a big ol' surprise~ As cool as Dante getting phantom swords is, the DSD also makes Swordmaster mostly superfluous.

Of course, the weapon isn't perfect, since it puts Prop Shredder into a combo, which takes a bit of freedom away, and Drive being a back-forward input is...iffy for something that has to charge up. It's also aggressively boring and ugly-looking.

But whatever! It's so crazy that they introduced a weapon that made a portion of the Style system obsolete, when everyone told me that "nuh-uh, Dante needs the Style system to function." Additionally, Gerbera kind of craps on the dismissal of integrated Style as well. People said that we need different buttons or stances for Trickster and Royal Guard, when I had said Trickster could simply be tilt inputs, while Royal Guard was stationary inputs. Lo and behold, Gerbera is literally exactly that. You dodge with a tilt and deflect with a stationary input. Release could be a hold, like how Break Ages work. Or...we could still simply toss Royal Guard in the recycling (save the planet, kids). I went through fighting Cavalier and deliberately parried the hell out of it, why would I use something so passive? It also never, ever fight with Dante thematically.
Completely agree. I've been playing Dante with a DmC control scheme, and it works out pretty great.

L2 (Hold): Weapon Slot 1
R2 (Hold): Weapon Slot 3
Otherwise: Weapon Slot 2

L3 (Toggle): Lock-on

L2 + Square: Gunslinger
L2 + Cross: Trickster
R1 + Circle: Royal Guard
Otherwise: Swordsmaster

D-Pad: Gun slots 1-4

Other than Gunslinger, nothing seems to collide, at least... Not that I'm aware of. Gunslinger was problematic since it requires the input of both Square and Circle to get the most out of weapons. I had it set so that both buttons get pressed, and that seems to work for the most part. I feel like it still prevents some mechanics from being performed, but oh well.

It's very easy to desync though. If I set go of L2 during a moment when Dante can't weapon switch, then I have to manually swap back to the right weapon. Better than dealing with the style system directly through.
 

Judge

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Havent got round to played it yet. So busy with work and home stuff. I felt after DmC, that the DmC control setup was better, but DMC4 and now DMC5 simply had a vaster array of moves. Unfortunately Capcom never combined these two things together to form a superior system, but generally I'm dissapointed to hear that they didn't use what they learned from DmC to make a system that tops them all.
 

DarkSlayerVergil

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Completely agree. I've been playing Dante with a DmC control scheme, and it works out pretty great.

L2 (Hold): Weapon Slot 1
R2 (Hold): Weapon Slot 3
Otherwise: Weapon Slot 2

L3 (Toggle): Lock-on

L2 + Square: Gunslinger
L2 + Cross: Trickster
R1 + Circle: Royal Guard
Otherwise: Swordsmaster

D-Pad: Gun slots 1-4

Other than Gunslinger, nothing seems to collide, at least... Not that I'm aware of. Gunslinger was problematic since it requires the input of both Square and Circle to get the most out of weapons. I had it set so that both buttons get pressed, and that seems to work for the most part. I feel like it still prevents some mechanics from being performed, but oh well.

It's very easy to desync though. If I set go of L2 during a moment when Dante can't weapon switch, then I have to manually swap back to the right weapon. Better than dealing with the style system directly through.
How the hell did you do that?
 

DarkSlayer54

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How the hell did you do that?
I downloaded the source code for DS4Windows, and then just made a new class for modifying the inputs before it gets output as XBox inputs.

Makes me wonder if you can use an Arduino as the "middleman"... It would be pretty great if that was possible. Would mean you could customize the control scheme on any platform.
 

ef9dante_oSsshea

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I must be in the minority here so , I find the styles essential for aerial gameplay , guard flying and sky running and star raves in particular

It's annoying on a d-pad yes , but on an elite controller it's more like a ball than a dpad so style switching is easier
 
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TWOxACROSS

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I must be in the minority here so , I find the styles essential for aerial gameplay , guard flying and sky running and star raves in particular

It's annoying on a road yes , but on an elite controller it's more like a ball than a dpad so style switching is easier
That's a bit of the concern, right? That you need more buttons to best utilize the control scheme they have. And as cool as that stuff is, they have sorta done away with mechanics that allow for those things, and just made them part of normal gameplay. You don't need to Guard Fly anymore, because you can just tilt while doing aerial attacks and drift in the direction you want. Even Rainstorm has built-in better movement.

It's kinda weird that players develop all these crazy things, and when the devs decide to bake them straight into the gameplay, it's controversial that they'd allow the layperson to do such things (as was the apparent case with "intertia").
 

ef9dante_oSsshea

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Well I guess it depends on what works for you , I don't require a streamlined button configuration, so it doesn't apply to me so much

I can see your point about it and agree with you on some points , but personally for me I invested so much time mastering the one from 3 and 4 that I couldn't deal with a new one lol
 

DragonMaster2010

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That's a bit of the concern, right? That you need more buttons to best utilize the control scheme they have. And as cool as that stuff is, they have sorta done away with mechanics that allow for those things, and just made them part of normal gameplay. You don't need to Guard Fly anymore, because you can just tilt while doing aerial attacks and drift in the direction you want. Even Rainstorm has built-in better movement.

It's kinda weird that players develop all these crazy things, and when the devs decide to bake them straight into the gameplay, it's controversial that they'd allow the layperson to do such things (as was the apparent case with "intertia").
It seems less like hardcore players feeling the reward of learning a new move and more so them getting bitter that a move that took them ages to master can now be done by anyone; thus all that practice feeling like a waste. Broken pride seems to be the real controversy.
 

TWOxACROSS

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Broken pride seems to be the real controversy.
Not gonna lie, I think a lot of DMC's biggest problems are with an obstinate, elitist group that cares more about feeling good rather than a video game just being fun. I cannot relate, nor do I sympathize.

And it's not like those skills instantly transferred from game to game anyway. The things that make certain things possible in DMC3 and DMC4 are thanks to minute details that did not transfer mechanically between the games. Congrats on learning how to do something exclusively in one installment; the developers are under no obligation to recreate those same conditions next time.
 

ef9dante_oSsshea

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Lol I can't answer for everyone , but for me I love JC as it's an added element to gameplay , I mean I'm no pro so I don't make combo vids or enter style tournaments but I get great satisfaction out of pulling off ott combat in gameplay as I prefer to do it in game rather than in bloody palace


I am just so used to my control shceme I used since 3 that having the main entry purely streamlined would be completely alien to me

I mean if I want to play a regular hack and slash game where u fight demons with standard controls I could play nioh or onimusha or others
 

DarkSlayerVergil

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Lol I can't answer for everyone , but for me I love JC as it's an added element to gameplay , I mean I'm no pro so I don't make combo vids or enter style tournaments but I get great satisfaction out of pulling off ott combat in gameplay as I prefer to do it in game rather than in bloody palace


I am just so used to my control shceme I used since 3 that having the main entry purely streamlined would be completely alien to me

I mean if I want to play a regular hack and slash game where u fight demons with standard controls I could play nioh or onimusha or others
Jump cancelling from what I've read isn't really a big problem, just that the style system arbitrarily walling off moves behind the ○ button seems more of a hindrance for the sake of bragging rights than anything. Mind you I'm not saying that All players that prefer the style system are like this just that theirs really no point in it being like this outside of "tradition".
 

ef9dante_oSsshea

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Nah I get what you mean, if I played DMC3 and 4 more traditional I'd be less scared of change

I'm all for better controls for melee moves etc

To clarify its just the styles being dropped I'd be against for personal preference
 
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