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Nocturne/Shin Megami Tensei V

Demi-fiend

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Lain

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Interesting. Now that we have final confirmation that Dante does indeed speak in-game and that voice-acting wasn't just for advertisement, I'm super curious as to who they'll get for his Dubbed Voice. :unsure:
 

Demi-fiend

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Demi-fiend

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This May 2021 release date for Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne HD Remaster makes sense, as it places the game 3 months after Persona 5 Strikers, giving both games room to breathe.
 

Sparda's rejected son

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I never played the original SMT N for the ps2 but I will for sure pick up the HD version on for Switch. Persona 5 Royal got me into this mess and DMC2 era Dante will get me out of it! But that horn on the back of the Demi-Fiend's neck/head is ludicrous.
 

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Oh no, young people are looking at their cellphones in the exact "head-down" posture regular people use to read books and write on papers in school! My god! Good thing people don't read books or write things anymore, or else we would have had these head horns for centuries. Phew.

Imagine citing a study done by a chiropractor (conflict of interest? what's that?) with no control group (we kinda need those), that didn't account for the "general population" because it targeted chiropractic patients with mild symptoms to begin with (saying chiro patients have a problem with their skeleton is like saying drowning victims had a problem with water), that didn't actually quantify cellphone usage of the patients (you'd think they'd have that as a baseline), that only hypothesized that technology was to blame (I don't even have a snarky comment for this, it's just dumb), and that directly states in its own paper that the Forward Head Protrusions were than in the younger ages noted in the article. Above 60s. Like, people that didn't regularly grow up with cellphones and tablets. As in, not young people. In a study about young people. And then says young men are most likely to have these protrusions when shows that young women in the 18-29 age range have a higher prevalence of the protrusion than males of the same age despite the study generalizing women as "spending less time on the phone" (damn, how do they botch basic stereotyping?) and the change in prevalence only happening in the 40s (again, not young people). With no accounting as to what activities could possibly be happening at those ages that would cause a decrease, switch in genders, etc.

Inline spoilers inserted to cover my commentary.

Like, damn, I know you thought you had something, but show some basic respect. For me, for yourself, for everyone here that reads.
 

Demi-fiend

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Oh no, young people are looking at their cellphones in the exact "head-down" posture regular people use to read books and write on papers in school!
If we had been reading books at the rate we look at our smartphones, then most people would've already grown one by now.

There's also the issue of everyone out there growing a hump earlier on in life as well.

The reason we didn't have these things before was because most people would read in in a prone position for longer periods of time and study at a desk, since it would be at least a little bit more difficult to take notes while lying down.

When you support your upper body weight with your arms, these symptoms take longer to form.

That's why a lot of bookworms and study hounds out there didn't get that hump until later on in life.

You've felt neck pain when reading too long at a desk, right? Well, that pain is telling you to stop and disengage because you can't do anything (read/study/exercise) for an extended period of time without your body and/or mind collapsing on itself.

Decades before smartphones went mainstream there was the commonplace hazard of karoshi -- which I'm sure would've also been affecting Koreans and Han Chinese at the highest rates -- outside of Japan, I mean.


I'm not posting the above link for your sake necessarily (since I'm sure you already know what it means), but for the sake of convenience of anyone else who hadn't known what it meant and needed a convenient link to at least look over its basic definition.

If it were mainly elderly people being effected, then that would mean that their bone structure is more susceptible to growing humps since it is changing; becoming softer, with shorter spines.

Even short term usage of smartphone after a lifetime of not using them at an elderly age would've made your skeletal structure more suspect due to calcium depletion.

But ok. I'll just say that most of what I said is just an unfounded theory, and admit to being wrong.

I'm objectively wrong. You're correct and have thoroughly debunked the article.

But I still (erroneously) believe my own side to be subjectively true since I'm still theorizing that the elderly are more likely to suffer these changes a lot faster than younger, more resilient specimens.

We need a control group, and the link failed to provide one.

I didn't think we needed one, since most people I see walking around these days have a hump because of their phones.

I was being openly biased because of my own anecdotal experiences.
 
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Morgan

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If we had been reading books at the rate we look at our smartphones, then most people would've already grown one by now.
I'm gonna skip the rest because by the end you admitted to taking the L, but what exactly do you think scribes were doing before the printing press became a thing, when manual record-keeping and preservation of history and great works was important? Lying prone and kicking their legs around like a child writing in a diary and scrapbooking?

Demi-fiend's horn is still stupid and implausible. You didn't even have the decency to pull up a case of someone having a horn like his that comes from the nape, you just went to a study that called a protrusion a "horn" when that's not even what it is; the protrusion shown in x-rays gets covered by flesh and can't be seen with the naked eye, and the study gives measurements that, y'know, would be seen by anyone with functioning eyeballs. I'm serious. Unless you were talking to your ex, no one needs an x-ray to detect anything in their body that's between 10 to 40 millimeters long, because that's 1cm to 4cm.

It's a badly done study by a hack looking to sell you something, the terminology is like calling teeth "scales", and it'd be just as irrelevant if the topic were MGS5 and the study was posted in response to Venom Snake. The literal first thing you should ask yourself when picking up information like this is "How does this person benefit from sharing the information," (as I've said, it's monetary, he's a chiro) and do due diligence on it instead of acting like the type of person that gets hit up by a Nigerian Prince.

TLDR; You didn't have to go that hard and embarrass yourself about someone putting down a fictional character's design, not even one you named yourself after. Shoulda just let it go.
 
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Demi-fiend

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TLDR; You didn't have to go that hard and embarrass yourself about someone putting down a fictional character's design, not even one you named yourself after. Shoulda just let it go.
I don't like the Demi-fiend's horn. I shouldn't have given off that impression.

But I thought it was interesting how the director of the game sort of implied that the Vortex World was a place free of cell phones in an interview, and now this smartphone-related growth comes up.

I know one has almost nothing to do with the other, but I still feel like he somehow knew about this beforehand.

This was way before this growth was even discovered on a mass scale, but apparently, someone on the dev team had to have known about this skeletal growth that was related to Japan's own cell phone addiction even back then -- and it would eventually devolve into everyone else on the planet being effected by it.

It sounds like I'm defending the design decision. I'm not. I only posted "Is it?" because that was the easiest way to get that passing comment across.

It's a bad design. I just thought the devs knew about the issue back then through some obscure Japanese medical science journal and decided to slap it on the Demi-fiend as some sort of commentary on the matter.

Anyway, I still think old people develop those kinds of growths faster due to their skeletons being softer. It's not a big deal. That's just my own personal thoughts on the subject.

Like you said, I took the L. I said you were right. The study should've had a focus group. I should've provided one myself.

This is me letting it go.
 
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Sparda's rejected son

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Freak humans with horns aside, it still doesn't change the fact that the Demi-Fiend's head horn is ugly looking
 

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This is me letting it go.
What? You literally DMed me continuing this conversation only ten+ minutes (and then a half hour) after you posted your message here. You did not let it go. And you spat up all these extra words for no reason when comes

Kaneko: The concept of him is a human that awakens to superhuman powers by Magatama. Within the game he is presented as transforming into a demon, but he is the image of a human that has evolved or devolved, so I didn’t put horns or wings on him.

Because he is the character the player controls, I put more emphasis on embodying and reflecting his outlook on the world rather than developing his personality. For instance, the theme of SMT: Nocturne is energy that can create a new world, so I had him dressed comfortably, wearing just shorts, and at the same time made him stand out with the signs of being superhuman, his tattoos.

As I mentioned before, the theme of this game is energy, but it is also about a human that has gained superhuman powers. I gave him tattoos and a spike on the back of his head. The tattoos over his body are more like stigmas than tattoos, and the channels and lymph vessels show that he is not a human. That is why they change colors when he is low on hit points. Also, the spike is a type of sensory organ, representing a primitive brain being possessed by a Magatama. It is through the evolution of this sensory organ that the player can talk to demons and use super powers. There is a theory that a person’s aura, when viewed from the side, protrudes backward like a shark fin. That was my inspiration for the spike.
He didn't get it off of cellphones. You assumed something would be true only because you wanted to, when you had nothing proving it but conjecture, and somehow you think Japanese developers from the early 2000s were aware of a study of patients in Queensland, Australia only published in 2016, or that they had their own widespread "cellphones cause horns!" issue predating the "study" you cited but never published a study of their own at the time.

I'm not going to engage on the topic any more as a serious subject. Do not bring this up. Don't even quote any of this in your next message if you send one. It's done.

Freak humans with horns aside, it still doesn't change the fact that the Demi-Fiend's head horn is ugly looking
Honestly, not even just the nape thing. The entire design is bad.

> Stubby fingers
> Cankles
> Capris
> Nipple Blocks.

No one should try to argue in favor of the above. Kaneko gave the Demi-Fiend nipple blocks. Bosom boxes. Pectoral quadrilaterals. Titty tetragons.
And the thick "I took a racing car vector pattern from Google and layered it over the character" tattoo on his body does a poor evocation of a "Shaman" image. Generally Shamanic tattoos are associated to organic shapes and intricate designs not... whatever Demi-Fiend is rocking.
 

Demi-fiend

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What? You literally DMed me continuing this conversation only ten+ minutes (and then a half hour) after you posted your message here. You did not let it go.
What I discussed in DM was going off-topic, so I decided to continue it there.

It was there simply to clear the air.

Should I repost what I said on this thread?

The jeans and tattoos look had already been done by Shadow Man, so I guess they wanted to differentiate Demi-fiend's design somehow.

It's awful overall, but still memorable... for all the wrong reasons.

Not gonna stop me from using it as my name and avatar however.

Freak humans with horns aside, it still doesn't change the fact that the Demi-Fiend's head horn is ugly looking
I admitted as much in my previous post. It's terrible.

Other than that, I still like the other aspects of his design though.
It's done.
If it was done, then why follow up with an additional tirade?

Did you know that anger kills faster than cigarettes, alcohol, and fast food combined?

Should I post a study on that as well?

Like I said, you won the argument. Here's your crown.



I'm not going to engage on the topic any more as a serious subject. Do not bring this up.
Shoulda just let it go.

I'll just listen to your responses from now on and not answer anymore if that's what you really want.

I just don't see why you would fly off the handle from me posting a picture of an unnatural growth, a commentary from a medical doctor, and a passing comment.

Was someone you once hated a chiropractor? Or are you just one of those types who see it as less of a genuine medical profession and more of a glorified masseuse?

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Sparda's rejected son

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So for those who played the original game tell me about it without spoiling it.

1st. How would you compare the combat system to say, Persona 5 Royal?
 

Demi-fiend

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I only played P5 Vanilla, but I vastly prefer SMTN's combat to P5.

Is P5R objectively better? Of course it is.

But I played P4G first, then P3FES, then SMTN.

SMTN is by far my favorite combat system.

It's not too different from the modern Persona games, but it's different enough for me to enjoy it much more than Altus' more popular series.

P3 and P4 were built off of SMTN's engine, but the similarities end with its basic press turn mechanics.
 

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So for those who played the original game tell me about it without spoiling it.

1st. How would you compare the combat system to say, Persona 5 Royal?
Challenging. It's traditional turn-based. No such thing as getting an extra turn for landing a weakness. Demon negotiation is a must, and each demon is different and their responses are random, so the challenge is in negotiating successfully without angering or scaring them and you can dodge encounters entirely with it. A random encounter can rock the living daylights out of you if you don't learn the system or prepare adequately.
 

Sparda's rejected son

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@Morgan

So it is more akin to classic Final Fantasy gameplay just cracked up to 11? With demon chit chat as core mechanic?


Edit: @Demi-fiend I am biased. I adore Persona 5 Royal's combat so I would say that is better without playing SMT Noc. The real game may change my thoughts upon playing it.
 

Sparda's rejected son

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@Morgan Thank you for the info.

2nd. Question. Do the characters have arcs much like the Persona character s? A compelling story basically
 

Demi-fiend

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Edit: @Demi-fiend I am biased. I adore Persona 5 Royal's combat so I would say that is better without playing SMT Noc. The real game may change my thoughts upon playing it.
I recommend beating it on Merciful Mode first before going into Normal Difficulty.

Nothing carries over except your money and the amount of monsters you capture, but you'll need all the help you can get once you climb that ladder.

If you capture them all, you'll get a discount at half off.

I was in the middle of grinding for cash in order to buy new magatama (you need all of them for the true demon ending) when I decided to stop because I couldn't handle it anymore.

You'll need to acquire all the magatama in every playthrough, but you'll only need to catch every monster once.

Even following a walkthrough, it really tested my patience because a random move from one of the bosses can take down your entire party just for fun.

If you make it to Mot, be ready to lose. A lot. Even with a strategy guide.

2nd. Question. Do the characters have arcs much like the Persona character's? A compelling story basically
Sort of.

Not really.

It's complicated.

You'll need to see and judge it for yourself.

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