Next Weapon return *Spoiler *

SwordofSparda

Well-Known Member
Messages
16
Points
45
Hello,

new Spoiler for Dante. An old favorite weapon returns. Look like Ceberus has two modes. Very interesting. Your thoughts?

 

LordOfDarkness

The Dark Avenger © †
Staff
Supporter 2014
Supporter Diamond
Supporter Gold
Xen-Omni 2020 Supporter
Messages
11,337
Points
21,675
Cerberus is back?

That’s a good boy!
 

berto

I Saw the Devil
Staff
Messages
8,591
Points
13,475
I've been looking at the footage a few times and it's great to have an old weapon back but as an avid martial arts film lover I can't help but notice that when Dante performs those moves he's not as graceful as the source material being referenced usually is. For example, when using chain mode, that leg rice when the chain passes under him, his leg is not straight and the movement is somewhat sloppy and rigid. With the bo staff his movements are more impactful, blunt, than the moves require them to be. Chinese martial arts are about fluidity, grace and speed. He's got the speed part down but graceful and fluid he is not. He looks more rigid and forceful than anything. He looks like practitioner from a different discipline learning a new style, someone who's obviously skilled but not used to those moves.

Edit:
You know, now that I think about it, that is exactly what I think is off about the capoeira. It’s just a bit off. He has the moves but the way he pulls them off is just off. Not by much but enough to be noticeable.
 
Last edited:

devil_inside123

The devil in the dark
Messages
313
Points
920
I've been looking at the footage a few times and it's great to have an old weapon back but as an avid martial arts film lover I can't help but notice that when Dante performs those moves he's not as graceful as the source material being referenced usually is. For example, when using chain mode, that leg rice when the chain passes under him, his leg is not straight and the movement is somewhat sloppy and rigid. With the bo staff his movements are more impactful, blunt, than the moves require them to be. Chinese martial arts are about fluidity, grace and speed. He's got the speed part down but graceful and fluid he is not. He looks more rigid and forceful than anything. He looks like practitioner from a different discipline learning a new style, someone who's obviously skilled but not used to those moves.

Edit:
You know, now that I think about it, that is exactly what I think is off about the capoeira. It’s just a bit off. He has the moves but the way he pulls them off is just off. Not by much but enough to be noticeable.
Isn't that how he should be though? Since his weapon of choice is a sword shouldn't he look better at that than a nunchuck which he's as far as we know had only used twice in his life? It really plays into the dynamic between him and vergil, fear not the man who has used a thousand weapons one time but the man who has used one weapon a thousand times, he's a jack of all trades but master of none.
 

DarkSlayerVergil

Well-Known Member
Messages
300
Points
375
Isn't that how he should be though? Since his weapon of choice is a sword shouldn't he look better at that than a nunchuck which he's as far as we know had only used twice in his life? It really plays into the dynamic between him and vergil, fear not the man who has used a thousand weapons one time but the man who has used one weapon a thousand times, he's a jack of all trades but master of none.
Funny how the series would portray Dante as a master off all his weapons though.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ash

V's patron

be loyal to what matters
Messages
7,565
Points
12,415
I've been looking at the footage a few times and it's great to have an old weapon back but as an avid martial arts film lover I can't help but notice that when Dante performs those moves he's not as graceful as the source material being referenced usually is. For example, when using chain mode, that leg rice when the chain passes under him, his leg is not straight and the movement is somewhat sloppy and rigid. With the bo staff his movements are more impactful, blunt, than the moves require them to be. Chinese martial arts are about fluidity, grace and speed. He's got the speed part down but graceful and fluid he is not. He looks more rigid and forceful than anything. He looks like practitioner from a different discipline learning a new style, someone who's obviously skilled but not used to those moves.

Edit:
You know, now that I think about it, that is exactly what I think is off about the capoeira. It’s just a bit off. He has the moves but the way he pulls them off is just off. Not by much but enough to be noticeable.
I guess he has expierence in a wide variety of disciplines but not really perfect at them.
 

berto

I Saw the Devil
Staff
Messages
8,591
Points
13,475
Isn't that how he should be though? Since his weapon of choice is a sword shouldn't he look better at that than a nunchuck which he's as far as we know had only used twice in his life? It really plays into the dynamic between him and vergil, fear not the man who has used a thousand weapons one time but the man who has used one weapon a thousand times, he's a jack of all trades but master of none.
That's just it, though, he is supposed to be. He's not bound by human limitations, he can, and has mastered multiple weapons with ease. I'm not implying that he's unable to I'm saying the animation doesn't really showcase the style of combat as elegantly as it should.
 

Anton Clemens

Well-Known Member
Messages
45
Points
195
I've been looking at the footage a few times and it's great to have an old weapon back but as an avid martial arts film lover I can't help but notice that when Dante performs those moves he's not as graceful as the source material being referenced usually is. For example, when using chain mode, that leg rice when the chain passes under him, his leg is not straight and the movement is somewhat sloppy and rigid. With the bo staff his movements are more impactful, blunt, than the moves require them to be. Chinese martial arts are about fluidity, grace and speed. He's got the speed part down but graceful and fluid he is not. He looks more rigid and forceful than anything. He looks like practitioner from a different discipline learning a new style, someone who's obviously skilled but not used to those moves.

Edit:
You know, now that I think about it, that is exactly what I think is off about the capoeira. It’s just a bit off. He has the moves but the way he pulls them off is just off. Not by much but enough to be noticeable.
Maybe because the mocap artist knows only stunt-no-jutsu. Those guys are not professional martial artists with decent experience. They go to Xtreme Martial Arts schools to learn tricking and swing weapons as if they know how use them.
 

Kishido

Hunter
Messages
219
Points
1,190
But with Cerberus back this brings the question up what about the old weapons? We already have Balrog so no chance for having Ifrit or Beowulf

And why Cerberus is so improved and with different elements if we know that Cerberus was an ice demon
 

berto

I Saw the Devil
Staff
Messages
8,591
Points
13,475
Maybe because the mocap artist knows only stunt-no-jutsu.
I don't think the character movement and animation are mocaped. I'm pretty sure they animate that themselves. Even if not they are able to fix these things, move characters around. This was intentional.
 

Stylish Nero

We Dem Boys!!
Messages
4,047
Points
5,915
I've been looking at the footage a few times and it's great to have an old weapon back but as an avid martial arts film lover I can't help but notice that when Dante performs those moves he's not as graceful as the source material being referenced usually is. For example, when using chain mode, that leg rice when the chain passes under him, his leg is not straight and the movement is somewhat sloppy and rigid. With the bo staff his movements are more impactful, blunt, than the moves require them to be. Chinese martial arts are about fluidity, grace and speed. He's got the speed part down but graceful and fluid he is not. He looks more rigid and forceful than anything. He looks like practitioner from a different discipline learning a new style, someone who's obviously skilled but not used to those moves.

Edit:
You know, now that I think about it, that is exactly what I think is off about the capoeira. It’s just a bit off. He has the moves but the way he pulls them off is just off. Not by much but enough to be noticeable.
I'm no expert in martial arts but in an actual fight does it matter? Does the lack of fluidity and grace in his movement make his attacks any less effective in bringing harm to his opponents?

You also need to take into account he is not fighting humans but demons so he could require to be more blunt and impactful than usual.

That's just it, though, he is supposed to be. He's not bound by human limitations, he can, and has mastered multiple weapons with ease. I'm not implying that he's unable to I'm saying the animation doesn't really showcase the style of combat as elegantly as it should.
He is half demon which grants him enhanced healing, durability, and speed I'm not sure about the ability to master every skill possible or enhanced knowledge. If that was the case then there would be more demons who are martial arts masters.

No where in his Bio that indicates he is a master of all forms of combat. Where is it implied that Dante Bruce Waynes it and travels the globe and stay at Monasteries practicing martial arts his entire life. He probably at best watched it on TV or took a few lessons at the local dojo and got it down after a few attempts. Dante really only needs to know it well enough to get the job done and not master every martial arts where everyone else who has spent their entire life just mastering one or two.

Lets not make Dante anymore of a MarySue please.

Oh so a guy who is far more well versed in sword and European weaponry and western gun slinging isn't as good in Eastern martial arts and weaponry because EGAD that is his forte. Maybe he is more proficient in one set of martial arts and weaponry over the other because maybe...just maybe...hear me out here this might blow your mind....he practices or applies those styles more often than others.



It is almost like Dante isn't some Mr.PerfectJesusWhoIsBestAtEverytingAndHaveNoFlaws or he isn't 100% there yet.
 

DragonMaster2010

Don't Let the Fall of America be Your Fall
Messages
8,923
Points
16,565
That's just it, though, he is supposed to be. He's not bound by human limitations, he can, and has mastered multiple weapons with ease. I'm not implying that he's unable to I'm saying the animation doesn't really showcase the style of combat as elegantly as it should.
Dante's not an elegant person though. He's always been pretty rough with a stylish charm in his abilities.
Also him being a master at literally any weapon sort of goes hand in hand with why Dante's inclusion in DMC5 seems unnecessary. He's perfect, so why continue with him?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ash

Foxtrot94

Elite Hunter
Supporter Gold
Messages
7,148
Points
14,915
I'm no expert in martial arts but in an actual fight does it matter? Does the lack of fluidity and grace in his movement make his attacks any less effective in bringing harm to his opponents?
No but it leaves your muscles open to unnecessary strain and fatigue. The more fluid you are in your movements, the less "contracted" (not the right word for what I have in mind, but I think you know what I mean) your muscles are while moving and therefore they tire less. The more rigid and stiff they are, the more energy they have to use to keep being in that state.
Every good master will always teach you the importance of fluidity and point out when you're too stiff and your movements not seemless enough.

Although you could make the argument that yes, fluidity can enhance the power of a blow. For example, Bruce Lee made it a point that if you "harden" your punch only just before the moment of the impact, it generates more power than if you keep it hard the whole time.
 
Last edited:

Anton Clemens

Well-Known Member
Messages
45
Points
195
There was a theory in this forum which states that since every devil arm is a living weapon with a soul of a demon it may also contain knowledge how to use it. That's why Dante can master any weapon in one second.
 
Last edited:

LordOfDarkness

The Dark Avenger © †
Staff
Supporter 2014
Supporter Diamond
Supporter Gold
Xen-Omni 2020 Supporter
Messages
11,337
Points
21,675
I don’t think he’s too worried about tiring out his muscles since he fights for ages and ages without running out of stamina.
 

berto

I Saw the Devil
Staff
Messages
8,591
Points
13,475
I'm no expert in martial arts but in an actual fight does it matter? Does the lack of fluidity and grace in his movement make his attacks any less effective in bringing harm to his opponents?
Bro... You are trying to apply real world combat principles to a game where you use a motorcycle as a chainsaw? This is no different than a movie. Literally no different. This is not an actual fight, it's a performance. Real world applications and rules are the ones that don't matter, it's the showmanship.

For example:
This is footage of choreographer Woo-Ping Yuen's team mapping out the fight scenes from the Matrix.

And this is footage of the actual actors doing their own stunts.

That's not to crap on the actors. I saw the grewling regiment they underwent and they performed outstandingly in the film, they have my respect. The difference as to who is the better martial artist, though, is clear and the presentations is what I care about. I also don't think this is as big a deal as it seem to be growing into. It's a critique, a complaint, one as a fan of martial arts movies I care about, that just being 'good enough' shouldn't be good enough, but not one that I'd say destroys the game.

He is half demon which grants him enhanced healing, durability, and speed I'm not sure about the ability to master every skill possible
I've seem regular men who can and they didn't have any of Dante's gifts, it's not even that far fetched.

or enhanced knowledge.
Knowledge, no, but intelligence, yes. According to DMC1 lore Dante, just like his father, possess superior intellect. Learning isn't hard for him.

No where in his Bio that indicates he is a master of all forms of combat.
"He can use weapons from any time and place" doesn't exactly sound that impressive when you add an asterisk that says "*but not that well."
Again, it's not the practicality that's the issue, it's the showmanship.

Where is it implied that Dante Bruce Waynes it and travels the globe and stay at Monasteries practicing martial arts his entire life.
Doesn't have to. Aside from his inborn natural abilities and traits his father lived for 2000 years and thought his sons to fight and he is the one traveled the glove.

Oh so a guy who is far more well versed in sword and European weaponry and western gun slinging isn't as good in Eastern martial arts and weaponry because EGAD that is his forte.
I'm pretty sure the style he uses for Ifrit is either Karate or Hapkido.

He probably at best watched it on TV or took a few lessons at the local dojo and got it down after a few attempts.
Are you-- Are you kidding me? Did you really just take the man who made the devil cry, the legendary dark knight who fearlessly traveled to the depths of the void, repeatedly, to keep the infernal hoards from rising and basically dropped him 2 degrees below Travis Touchdown? Because I don't want to play as that dude. He sounds bland as all hell. Maybe we should take Ryu Hayabusa and turn him into Beverly Hills Ninja.

This is why I hate the goddamn anime. Now everyone thinks Dante is some lazy wanker who sleeps all day and doesn't pay his bills rather than a man of legend. God, I abhor that thing.

It is almost like Dante isn't some Mr.PerfectJesusWhoIsBestAtEverytingAndHaveNoFlaws or he isn't 100% there yet.
So you rather have this


Than this?


That's up to you but I rather play as the ludicrous badass slash man of legend than the guy who learned to fight at the mall.

Dante's not an elegant person though.
No, but he is supposed to be stylish and when you look like you're just plain good vs when you look like you are quite adept I'd pick the more skilled one to come off as stylish.
Imagine, for example, that we were talking about a different skill, like riding a bike. Would he really come off that stylishly if rode around looking like he's still learning than if he was pulling off tricks? This is an exaggeration, of course, since he is obviously an experienced martial artist. Those moves are not as easy to pull off as he's making it seem, even if he's not doing it as smoothly as those they are mimicking.

He's perfect, so why continue with him?
That's only relative to the story, not the animation.

I think people are missing my point and focusing on some deeper truths to excuse this when it doesn't have to be defended. Clearly the weapon is meant to call back to Hong Kong martial arts movies with some specific references to Bruce Lee, who was famous for his skills with the nunchuck but was also known to be adept with both the bo staff and the chain. My point was why make it look so rigid when the source material would look so much better? Same with the capoeira. I know that they're did this to make his movements look realistic but in doing so, in taking this approach, the martial art styles they're showcasing loose part of what makes them worth showcasing. It's not not like it's a deal breaker, but it is a shame.
 
Top