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marvel has a soft reboot?

Jak

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so, with marvels upcoming cris--er i mean, SECRET WARS it has been stated that marvel's ultimate universe and their classic universe will collide and bring about a new earth.





as of right now, i don't know how to feel about this. but if any of you guys have an opinion, shoot
 

Chancey289

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Well, New 52 could be considered a soft reboot as they keep some things from the original canon in tact. New 52 is absolute garbage for the most part though so whatever.

This is just combining the Ultimate and original universes to create one, big cohesive one. I don't see them just forgetting about their current line up, just adding this new element for future stories.

I've seen great Earth 616 and Ultimate crossovers before. Spider-Men was freaking sweet.
 
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Jak

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Well, New 52 could be considered a soft reboot as they keep some things from the original canon in tact. New 52 is absolute garbage for the most part though so whatever.

This is just combining the Ultimate and original universes to create one, big cohesive one. I don't see them just forgetting about their current line up, just adding this new element for future stories.
well, for me, the difference between this and the new 52 is that nothing really changed except the costumes and the origins were slightly tweeked but for the most part they just took out what they didn't like and kept in continuity what they liked. plus, DC was at a point where i stopped caring for them anyways so when the new 52 happened and i read some stuff i was kinda back on board because the universe was (relatively speaking) easy to follow.
with THIS though, i dunno. 4 peter parkers occupying one universe. 2 tony starks (one of which people like and the other everyone hates), and i'm not seeing the x-men OR the fantastic four on any of these posters. i really do think in order for this to work, they have to pull a flashpoint paradox and mess up the time stream in order to make it feel fresh.
i'm with you in enjoying spider-men. one of the greatest spider-man stories in years, but seeing that for EVERY character? i dunno. i'll wait and see. but i'm still very interested
 
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WolfOD64

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This is just combining the Ultimate and original universes to create one, big cohesive one. I don't see them just forgetting about their current line up, just adding this new element for future stories.
OFFICIAL QUOTE:
"Once we hit Secret Wars #1, there is no Marvel Universe, Ultimate Universe, or any other. It's all Battleworld."

---Marvel Editor-in-Chief Axel Alonso and Senior Vice President of Publishing and Executive Editor Tom Brevoort

If this is indeed true, I might have incentive to catch up on recent Marvel comics., given how it remains in my mind as "the once great." I haven't kept up with it in a long time, mostly because the Ultimate universe (my preferred take on each respective Marvel franchise) had been screwed over by awful mishandling. Sure, Ultimate ascended with Ultimate Spiderman and Ultimates 1 & 2, but you also had people like Jeph Loeb penning Ultimates 3---one of the absolute WORST Marvel storylines of all time, and one that was more dragged out than the runtime of a Chris Nolan movie.

However, this news about multiple universes collapsing and forming a new one is surprisingly relieving. I'd rather Ultimate die a swift death than be subjected to more mediocrity...and God knows that the OG Universe has been running for way, way too long. It'll also be interesting to see how they handle this reboot---given how Marvel seldom conforms to repeated reboots that DC does.
Well, New 52 could be considered a soft reboot as they keep some things from the original canon in tact. New 52 is absolute garbage for the most part though so whatever.
New 52 is arguably DC's worst comic book run in history...and it has nothing to do with them retaining or abandoning elements from old canon. It's the sappy plotlines, mishandled characters, and "progressive" take on characters. You can't imagine my unbridled disgust at the way they handled Starfire, or the initial excitement I harbored for a lesbian duo of Poison Ivy and Harley Quinn, only to restrain myself somewhere between nausea and bewilderment at how much it was like some kind of poorly-executed, ham-fisted OTP fanfiction fever-dream.

Marvel's runs in recent years have been lukewarm at best, but every time they edge closer to doing stupider and stupider ****, I just remind myself: "Well, hey...look on the bright side. At least it's not the New 52."
 

Jak

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as much as we can harp on new 52 tho, i think marvel has been takin note for a while. because DC has been doing to marvel in comic what marvel does to DC in movies. they're dominating currently with the new 52. i know i like to say that" new readers don't exist" but i think new 52 squashes my argument with their latest claim to victory. and it doesn't help that the marvel now with the exception of a few books (kamala khan ms. marvel, go pick it up it's good) isn't doing so good. and they want in on what DC is doing. and they thought the answer was new number ones, when really the answer is "clean up continuity" because people think that the movies bring in new readers, but it doesn't. but it doesn't. because those movie goers know that theres a crap ton of muddled continuity that they don't want to get into. and i think THAT'S why the new 52 is doing so well, and i think that (and this is just me spit balling) they knew the old fans would hate the reboot, so that's why after trinity war, they've been planning convergence to tie in new 52 with all these other realities to not only get new readers, but to fuse everything and have it be the best of both worlds for everybody. BUT that's a different topic.

back to marvel though, i think that this marvel crisis is going to not only reboot continuity, but there will be multiple universes. and i'll tell you why. notice how peter parker isn't in the promo pics for battle world. and how in the posters and etc that the x-men and fantastic four aren't in those either for the 75th celebration. i think marvel is going to have their main universe with all the characters they own for film and play with that, and spider-man will be his own thing, x-men will be their own thing, and FF will be their on thing.

just a thought
 
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Demi-fiend

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Everything has a reboot. It's only a matter of when.

New 52 was garbage? Looks like I didn't miss out on much, then. I loved the costumes, though. However, I still think Chancey and Wolf064 are just being overly critical when they say it's "garbage," overall.

"Not good," maybe, but pure garbage? No way. It's just in the "not-good-but-not-entirely-bad" category.
they're dominating currently with the new 52. i know i like to say that" new readers don't exist" but i think new 52 squashes my argument with their latest claim to victory.
See? Told you. Not all bad. The public isn't completely ignorant, in the long run. >.>
 
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WolfOD64

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Everything has a reboot. It's only a matter of when.

New 52 was garbage? Looks like I didn't miss out on much, then. I loved the costumes, though. However, I still think Chancey and Wolf064 are just being overly critical when they say it's "garbage," overall.

"Not good," maybe, but pure garbage? No way. It's just in the "not-good-but-not-entirely-bad" category.
Alright, maybe it's not garbage---I may have been blowing it out of proportion. :blush: I'm just not a fan of the changes they made, or the lackluster roles these changes have in the current stories.

Besides, they were at least placed there for a reason, even if they didn't achieve their authors' original intent. Marvel, on the other hand, has made some recent changes that baffle me to no end, without rhyme or reason.

Female Thor, anyone? :shifty:
 
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Demi-fiend

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Female Thor, anyone? :shifty:
Why is that bad though? Aside from the more... "questionable" aspect of changing it for no real reason.

I'm honestly asking here. You're going to have to explain some of the finer details to me because I really don't feel like going to wikipedia to figure this out.

Also, I can see why they did it; feminine appeal to the men, and broader appeal towards women. But other than that, you're right. It really doesn't make a lot of sense from an objective standpoint.
 

WolfOD64

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Why is that bad though? Aside from the more... "questionable" aspect of changing it for no real reason.

I'm honestly asking here. You're going to have to explain some of the finer details to me because I really don't feel like going to wikipedia to figure this out.

Also, I can see why they did it; feminine appeal to the men, and broader appeal towards women. But other than that, you're right. It really doesn't make a lot of sense from an objective standpoint.
You want my honest opinion? It's quite possibly the laziest attempt Marvel has ever made to be progressive, and have more female superheroines. It's not the incentive behind the change...it's the EXECUTION.

I mean, it doesn't sound like a bad idea....on paper. The motive behind this change is perfectly reasonable. Comic books have been dominated by a majority of male, white protagonists for many years, with very little in variety in between. So, expanding the cast of superheroes with more varying options sounds promising and inclusive on paper, but this brings about a prominent problem with representation, one that can render it meaningless if conducted in such a way: bad execution.

This change irritates me for one simple reason: it's not creative. Marvel doesn't want to introduce a new empowered, interesting female character...they just take Thor, paint him with a thick coat of Rule 63, and call it a day.

The intent behind this kind of change isn't the problem, it's that the changes made won’t have the desired effect that the authors hope for. The comic industry doesn't NEED female swaps of already-existing characters...that wouldn’t only be an exercise in missing the point, but in uncreative laziness as well. These changes aren’t innovative because they aren’t brand-new, individual creations—they’re amendments to existing characters. Characters like Thor are already established characters in decades' worth of comics (and in Thor's case, ancient Norse MYTHOLOGY), and readers will almost always associate them with the original forms they’ve taken for years. This isn't like DmC, where you take a character that's only been in four games over a seven-year lifespan, and give him a make-over and reboot. These characters are icons, and have a well-established legacy not just in comics, but in pop culture.

To take the altered versions of them and toss them into the spotlight burdens them with living in the shadow of their predecessors, preventing them from having a strong presence on their own as characters. Every aspect about them, regardless of their new gender or skin color, will be constantly compared to their original counterparts, and thus rob them of any strengths or innovations they could’ve potentially brought to the table on their own. And what’s worse, is that most of these changes are never permanent. Superheroes and comic book characters have been subject to racial, gender, and sexual changes for years—the most notable examples being Miles Morales (the first black Spider-Man), and Batman passing his cowl to both male and female successors throughout his many comic book interpretations. But after only a few years and hastily-explained reboots later, these characters revert back to their original form, as if the changed interpretations of them had never even existed in the first place.

This kind of change for "including more female characters for the sake of diversity", by nature and execution, is the wrong type of change. Instead of creating new forms of equality and accessibility for a wider audience, they’re recycling characters and slapping a new coat of paint on them. Publishers should create new, individual characters that are not derived from an already-existing one: introduce strong female heroes, or openly gay or lesbian characters, or more racially-diverse ones…but above all, introduce original ones. They’ll have far more impact as stand-alone characters, and have their own story arcs and characteristics to put their own mark on the comics industry. Now, in fairness, this solution isn’t the easy one, and might be the reason publishers like Marvel are taking the quick and lazy route. Introducing new characters in comic books is a risky move, because their inclusion doesn’t always guarantee instant recognition and success. But it’s only with these drastic gambles that comic book icons are born. There was a lot of skepticism and doubt about Wonder Woman being successful in an environment of mostly male heroes, and now, she’s arguably the most recognizable super-heroine of all time.

In other, words: MARVEL, don't SWAP Thor's hammer for a bra, and then claim to be progressive...INVENT a new character! Invest a penny or two out of the truckloads of money your getting from MCAU, hire some talented artists, AND TRY BEING ****ING CREATIVE.
 

Demi-fiend

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True. But like you said, it's easier said than done.

It's an insurmountable task, creating a new female hero that has her own spin on her powers (because let's face it, almost every power out there has been taken, thus a new spin must be created, like Infamous) is hard enough on on it's own, but imagine creating motivations, day-to-day problems, personal drama, and finally a character-defining trait or tragic backstory (which even Tony Stark did in Iron Man 1, and he barely knew the guy) that really drives your target audience to actually read it.

Now, imagine having to go niche with that audience, because it's new. Marvel doesn't want to go niche, so they gender-swap.

You're right. It's extremely uncreative, and reeks of cynicism, imho.
 
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WolfOD64

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You're right. It's extremely uncreative, and reeks of cynicism, imho.
What I find bizarre is that female comic fans are applauding this move...even though, one would think that they of all people would be the most offended. Marvel is literally telling them: "Yeah, we don't have any faith in a brand-new, stand-alone, female protagonist to be well-recieved or profitable. But, hey...the male ones are popular. How 'bout a female version of one of those?"

And yet no one seems the least bit bothered by this. It's almost laughable.
 
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Demi-fiend

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And yet no one seems the least bit bothered by this. It's almost laughable.
Thinking about this (and about fandom in general) I can honestly say that this comes as no surprise to me.

The right about of flash, pandering to the masses, and giving people a sense of the familiar (as opposed to seemingly change everything on the surface like in DmC) will almost always lead to critical success (according to the fans, anyway).
 
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Jak

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And yet no one seems the least bit bothered by this. It's almost laughable.
i think people don't hate it because...he's thor. he hasn't really had a that many GREAT titles in the past few years so i guess they wanted to try to go back to stripping him of his hammer (*sigh*...again) and replace him with a new character. i'm just confused as to why they did all this work when they couldn've just made another thor title since they're gonna reboot ANYWAYS so why introduce a new character that most likely won't carry over (but whateves). the whole stripping thor of his powers gimmick is getting tired for me anyways female or not.
 
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WolfOD64

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i think people don't hate it because...he's thor. he hasn't really had a that many GREAT titles in the past few years so i guess they wanted to try to go back to stripping him of his hammer (*sigh*...again) and replace him with a new character. i'm just confused as to why they did all this work when they couldn've just made another thor title since they're gonna reboot ANYWAYS so why introduce a new character that most likely won't carry over (but whateves). the whole stripping thor of his powers gimmick is getting tired for me anyways female or not.
I don't even know how FemThor ties in with the Marvel Universe---hell, I don't even know which universe she's supposed to be apart of.

The only Thor I kept up with back in the day was Ultimate Thor---not just because I have a biased fanaticism with the Ultimate universe, but because of how much he embraced his mythological origins and traditional essence. You know the look and persona that the MCU has adopted for the film version of Thor? You can thank Ultimate Thor for that...he provided many of the influences that came with crafting his on-screen counterpart.
 
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Chancey289

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Alright, maybe it's not garbage---I may have been blowing it out of proportion. :blush: I'm just not a fan of the changes they made, or the lackluster roles these changes have in the current stories.

Besides, they were at least placed there for a reason, even if they didn't achieve their authors' original intent. Marvel, on the other hand, has made some recent changes that baffle me to no end, without rhyme or reason.

Female Thor, anyone? :shifty:
I still think garbage for the most part. (A handful of series aren't that bad though) For some reason, when DC decided to make New 52, they also decided it was the time to get really misogynistic.

Marvel, yea. I can appreciate diversity and representation in a medium like comics, but female Thor for example was nothing but nonsensical pandering.
 
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