(Major spoilers) A closer look at Virgil.

Lain

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Because Vergil's experiences and human emotions as V, as well as his conscience, carried over into his newly reformed self? I think it was pretty obvious.

Besides, it's not like Vergil did a complete 180 and now he's some compassionate, generous soul or anything. His demonic side is in there too. So while he does certainly seem to have lightened up a bit (for example his humor is not as cut and dry with that layer of threat to it like in DMC3, it sounds a bit more light hearted in nature, like his attitude in general), he also is the guy who refused to acknowledge Nero ("My son means nothing to me") until he proved himself as a warrior.

They showed he has changed a little, but not so much that it's a jarring transition from what he was before.
I didn't mean Vergil post fusion, I meant why does V possess so much heroic qualities when his original self never showed such a thing. I guess it falls into the line of thinking that since Vergil used the Yamato to separate his two halves, V who is the human half has all the "good" qualities, even if that treads on the toes of the franchise's message that demons can be good and that humans can be evil.

Anyways, that was more of a minor bugbear than anything else. What really feels jarring is how Vergil now has the highest body count of any antagonist if you put his crimes from 3 & 5 together and yet that kinda gets swept under the rug after Nero decides he won't let his father die. O_o
 

Innsmouth

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I didn't mean Vergil post fusion, I meant why does V possess so much heroic qualities when his original self never showed such a thing. I guess it falls into the line of thinking that since Vergil used the Yamato to separate his two halves, V who is the human half has all the "good" qualities, even if that treads on the toes of the franchise's message that demons can be good and that humans can be evil.

Anyways, that was more of a minor bugbear than anything else. What really feels jarring is how Vergil now has the highest body count of any antagonist if you put his crimes from 3 & 5 together and yet that kinda gets swept under the rug after Nero decides he won't let his father die. O_o
Theoretically Urizen isn't Vergil per see, it's only part of him and he did tried to seal demon world in the end. Also it was Arkham who persuaded Vergil to rise Teme-ni-Gru. So him having highest body count is doubtfull. Also I think most likely highest body count on Mundus, knowing he ruled earth with help of demons.
 

Vergil95

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I didn't mean Vergil post fusion, I meant why does V possess so much heroic qualities when his original self never showed such a thing. I guess it falls into the line of thinking that since Vergil used the Yamato to separate his two halves, V who is the human half has all the "good" qualities, even if that treads on the toes of the franchise's message that demons can be good and that humans can be evil.

Anyways, that was more of a minor bugbear than anything else. What really feels jarring is how Vergil now has the highest body count of any antagonist if you put his crimes from 3 & 5 together and yet that kinda gets swept under the rug after Nero decides he won't let his father die. O_o
Even if Vergil never show heroic and good part doesn't mean he didn't have any... How many people in real life show their good part but in reality they have a more darker personality or how many people show their worst part but in reality they are good?
 

V's patron

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@Lain
I see V as Vergil's subconscious regret over his choices made real. Deep down Vergil regrets going after power blindly because his life wasn't made better. He's not emotionally ready to admit that so he defaults to his usual method- he goes after power. Rather than asking Dante for help or forgiveness he goes and attacks Nero taking back Yamato etc.

So V wants to use his remaining strength/time to make the scales right. Funny thing is you made a joke about V being Vanitas and he kinda is. His familiars are like the Unversed lol.
 
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DreadnoughtDT

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That's cool and all... but why though? Seriously, if Vergil lacked empathy before becoming V then I don't see how he suddenly gains it after becoming him.

Despite a large chunk of the game revolving around him, I don't feel like they handled Vergil's character tremendously well in this game. :unsure:
V being entirely human meant he was more in tune with his emotions and, despite trying to remain stoic, he definitely found himself "feeling" more as a human. I think it took becoming human to make Vergil realize that humans are special in their own way.
 

Taramafor

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Even if Vergil never show heroic and good part doesn't mean he didn't have any... How many people in real life show their good part but in reality they have a more darker personality or how many people show their worst part but in reality they are good?
Exactly. We ALL have a darker side. Vergil simply has come to terms with his. Even accepted and embraced it (which is actually a good thing. it's acceptance). But he lost sight of his caring side. He didn't have anyone to care about after all. Too many people try to be "just good" but that actually makes them less willing to accept "your evil half". Does mean accept people at their worst. Doesn't mean see only the worst of everyone.

At the same time it's also important not to lose yourself in it. There's "two sides" to every coin. But each needs reasons. And they kind of "merge" with each other. That's the whole point behind V and Urizen. This might also hint at Dante's coin in 2 (I just know he had one and flipped it). It's a fitting metaphor. If you "feel split" you don't feel like "yourself". You can even feel "lost" in real life. Like you're "different people". You can struggle with that, end up as another half or come to terms with both sides. Eventually though we all have to "face our whole selves". Vergil made himself WEAKER by splitting himself ultimately. Not stronger. And if anyone disagrees takes it up with Dante who kicked Urizen's ass so hard he was a pathetic mess on the floor (Or even real me who once felt split up and once thought he had to be only uncaring).

I wonder what that's like? Was Vergil even aware/awake when he was Urizen and V? Or "Dead until reborn"? He looked very very confused when he became whole again. I actually think Dante trying to attack him at that point was an "evil" move on Dante's part. I mean give him a chance to talk at least. Dante's "evil half" is his hotheaded anger. Nero beats that out of him in the end though. XD

Vergil would never say it but he was weak. He knows he's stronger then that. And that strength comes from others as much as yourself. And Vergil can't even deny that at this point because he needed V when he was Urizen.
 
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DarkSlayerVergil

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Theoretically Urizen isn't Vergil per see, it's only part of him and he did tried to seal demon world in the end. Also it was Arkham who persuaded Vergil to rise Teme-ni-Gru.
But Urizen is the half he chose to stuck with though unlike V plus it doesn't matter if Arkham convinced Vergil to do it or not Vergil still did it. I'm pretty sure Vergil if he succeeded in 3 he would of eventually became Urizen anyway.

So him having highest body count is doubtfull. Also I think most likely highest body count on Mundus, knowing he ruled earth with help of demons.
Even if he doesn't have the highest it'd still be pretty high though.
 

ef9dante_oSsshea

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Compared to Dante, Vergils innocents killed count is astronomical

Considering Dante's number is zero
 

Veloran

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His thirst for power never came from will to protect anyone. Except himself.
I disagree quite a bit. His will to power obviously came about first from his failure to protect his mother, and grew worse over time as a result of how he was hunted and forced to survive. But really it doesn't need to be one or the other, both are compatible components of his motivation.

it's why he doesn't even give a single damn about Nero if not for the fact the he had his sword, and doesn't even acknowledge his existence as his son till he starts to kick his ass
He didn't even know Nero was his son until Dante spells it out for him. As far as acknowledgment, he acknowledges it's the truth immediately after finding out, it's not like he ever denied it. As far as the "my son means nothing to me" line, I don't think he said that while even knowing what Dante was talking about, because a moment later he sounds legitimately surprised when he asks if Nero is his son.

He doesn't look for anyone to care about cause he felt betrayed over the fact the he thought his mom never tried to reach him in the first place
This isn't actually an idea Vergil ever expresses, it's something Dante puts forward as what he thinks Vergil thinks. And frankly, if you listen to the delivery, it sounds a lot like Dante taunting Urizen with the idea before pulling back and admitting it wasn't true.

Anyway, something I noticed was that in 5, Vergil's motivations are basically the same as Dante's at the start of 3. That is to say, he really just wanted to beat Dante the same way Dante just wanted to beat him. This is backed pretty heavily by Nero, who considers their fighting pointless. Thematically this is reinforced by how Nero manages to beat both of them despite even weakened versions of them likely being much stronger, because he has a solid motivation, while they're effectively bickering and at that point practically share the same ideals anyway.
 

Taramafor

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This isn't actually an idea Vergil ever expresses, it's something Dante puts forward as what he thinks Vergil thinks. And frankly, if you listen to the delivery, it sounds a lot like Dante taunting Urizen with the idea before pulling back and admitting it wasn't true.
Plus there's the fact Virgil never even MET Nero until Nero himself showed up when Virgil said that line. So there's that. You can't care about someone you don't even know. Virgil simply made an accurate statement. And probably wanted nothing to do with his son when he said it. Considering what Virgil is like it could even be argued that Virgil knows he'd make a bad farther and wanted the distance.

Anyway, something I noticed was that in 5, Vergil's motivations are basically the same as Dante's at the start of 3. That is to say, he really just wanted to beat Dante the same way Dante just wanted to beat him. This is backed pretty heavily by Nero, who considers their fighting pointless. Thematically this is reinforced by how Nero manages to beat both of them despite even weakened versions of them likely being much stronger, because he has a solid motivation, while they're effectively bickering and at that point practically share the same ideals anyway.
In other words Nero had a "stronger motivation". Virgil wanted to beat Dante but his ultimate quest was for power. Once that quest was lost he kind of didn't have a plan. Both Dante and Virgil got caught with their pants down. morale is an important factor in fights. And Nero's determination surpassed Dante's and Virgil's. Virgil gave it a good go though. But he seemed somewhat conflicted. Nero was certain the moment he climbed those steps.
 
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