General DMC5 Discussion *spoiler warnings*

gmc

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So, then, who is the Dante in "real life"?
nero being stronger than vergil already gave away this is fake and why would dante be the guy on the throne unless they're doing some time travel nonsense which doesnt fit dmc and dmc 2 is canon confirmed by itsuno
 

Gel

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my bad

that leak was confirmed fake long time ago
Was it? This is the first time I heard of it and I found some of it absurd but after what I saw from game's story, anything goes.
 

gmc

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Was it? This is the first time I heard of it and I found some of it absurd but after what I saw from game's story, anything goes.
I'll try to find the proof but it'll be a while, bear with me
 
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berto

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This is, literally everything I've felt. Even though his cadence was sleep-inducing, he articulated my stance very well, with an extra bit of talking about loadouts, which are definitely a huge part of it too. Having a loadout that you can customize is a great idea, and it seems we'll be getting that in DMC5. My main stance, however, is still that Styles are just unnecessary at this point, as I've said before. The video's main point seemed like it leaned heavily on the concept of the loadout, that it was too much, spread over clunky options. At least if we had Swordmaster's moves just on Rebellion inherently, there's really no problem.
The style system worked for DMC3 because you couldn't overcomplicate things when you were forced to use a single style but now I think, well, no, I know that they kept the style system because people insist on keeping it. I think I mentioned this before but when I said that they need to get rid of the style system at 4chan people got rabid and I got more than one 'go back to DmC' responses. The reason they're keeping the style system is because too many people are attached to it, people who spent the last 10 years getting good at it and blame DmC's shortcomings on it's absence. If it didn't have those loud few would've made the situation with Dante's song seem positive by contrast and, yeah, we've all seen how 4chan reacts negatively. I'm pretty sure capcom is sick of getting demands for their staff to kill themselves.
 

Anton Clemens

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The style system worked for DMC3 because you couldn't overcomplicate things when you were forced to use a single style but now I think, well, no, I know that they kept the style system because people insist on keeping it. I think I mentioned this before but when I said that they need to get rid of the style system at 4chan people got rabid and I got more than one 'go back to DmC' responses. The reason they're keeping the style system is because too many people are attached to it, people who spent the last 10 years getting good at it and blame DmC's shortcomings on it's absence. If it didn't have those loud few would've made the situation with Dante's song seem positive by contrast and, yeah, we've all seen how 4chan reacts negatively. I'm pretty sure capcom is sick of getting demands for their staff to kill themselves.
Developers should never listen only to hardcore fanbases, because they are used to specific features of their favorite games and don't understand the needs of ordinary gamers.
 

TWOxACROSS

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The style system worked for DMC3 because you couldn't overcomplicate things when you were forced to use a single style but now I think, well, no, I know that they kept the style system because people insist on keeping it. I think I mentioned this before but when I said that they need to get rid of the style system at 4chan people got rabid and I got more than one 'go back to DmC' responses. The reason they're keeping the style system is because too many people are attached to it, people who spent the last 10 years getting good at it and blame DmC's shortcomings on it's absence. If it didn't have those loud few would've made the situation with Dante's song seem positive by contrast and, yeah, we've all seen how 4chan reacts negatively. I'm pretty sure capcom is sick of getting demands for their staff to kill themselves.
Right, it's absurd that a system that really only existed because of technological constraints is being touted as an infallible feature. DmC showed us an interesting way to have a lot of capabilities with a lot of different weapons without being confined to a system that segregates your skillset so starkly. Then again, DMC4se shows us the exact same thing when there's four entire characters that work in extremely intuitive ways without having to adhere to Dante's outdated design.

Probably my biggest misgiving with how Capcom handles this is when saying that "Nero is for new players," and "Dante is for intermediates." It's sort of missing the point, because the only reason Dante is for intermediates and masters is because his control scheme is an unintuitive mess. Your left thumb does so much between movement and input tilts, but then is also for on-the-fly switching, while your fingers get used for cycling forward through and sometimes over weapons. Like in DMC4, going from Nero who has all of his combos on a single button, to Dante whose **** is literally all over the controller, that's not a step up in complexity, it's a break down in UX.

Dante's intermediate handling should come from execution, not design. Like, look at the Combat Adjudicators in DMC3: it's all about execution, and to bust up the high-grade versions, you have to master and understand everything you can about a single weapon, all of its effects, what can flow in to what while weaving together a massive chain of attacks so repetition can't cramp your style. That's an amazing push for higher level play, that's what feels like the core of DMC4 as well - once you get to a mastery of Nero, you're thrown into the big leagues. Going from Nero to Dante hinted at this when Dante didn't build Style nearly as easily as Nero did, because your stylishness was spread out over more tools. Unfortunately, it was also unnecessarily spread out over more of the controller.

It all comes back to my simple complaint - why can't Dante do ground and air combos on a single damned button? It's the core of the argument, especially now that we're two generations of technology removed from DMC3's limitations that birthed the system. It bugs the ever-lovin' crap outta me that the answer seems to be a strict adherence to the past. Yet, what is there to expect from the fanbase that **** on the two games that tried? Buncha ****gibbons.

Developers should never listen only to hardcore fanbases, because they are used to specific features of their favorite games and don't understand the needs of ordinary gamers.
I'm reminded of someone who complained about Metroid: Other M and its problems. While most could be argued, the most asinine thing I had heard was "The game doesn't let you sequence break, so it sucks." Their point was somehow that because most Metroid games could be sequence broken, Other M's lack of such a capability meant it was somehow lesser, despite sequence breaking not being a feature or something that was ever part of the design in the first place.
 
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berto

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Developers should never listen only to hardcore fanbases, because they are used to specific features of their favorite games and don't understand the needs of ordinary gamers.
Can't blame them on this. Last time they didn't they got DmC, and I'm not just talking about the game, I'm talking about the reaction, the sales, the very real fiasco that that crumbled into and it didn't even sell half as well as they hopped.

Either way, the issue is this over attachment to how things were. There is sticking to the roots and then there is stubbornly refusing to let go of the things you're used to. I miss the fix camera system from DMC1 but it doesn't work anymore, you can't really fight with it with the same efficiency as you can with a freestyle camera, so, guess what? It needs to be reworked. This is it, all over again. Dante has too many moves that should be simple that rely on too many inputs to be pulled off to be called 'simple' or 'efficient' and that might be because of an over attachment to that system. Be it from fans or they themselves.

It's sort of missing the point, because the only reason Dante is for intermediates and masters is because his control scheme is an unintuitive mess. Your left thumb does so much between movement and input tilts, but then is also for on-the-fly switching, while your fingers get used for cycling forward through and sometimes over weapons. Like in DMC4, going from Nero who has all of his combos on a single button, to Dante who **** is literally all over the controller, that's not a step up in complexity, it's a break down in UX.
I'm surprised at how often this thing came in handy. It just illustrates my point and, in this case, yours so efficiently.

I've had my ups and downs with DmC. I've talked about why I hate it and what I've come to appreciate about it over the years. I still don't like it as a game or as a DmC title, but I understand why they did some of what they did and wish they hadn't disperse with it. For example, I didn't like how gently Vergil's air kicked looked. It looked like a controlled landing. In DMC1 and 3 those were fast and booming, like fricken comets hurtling towards the Earth. They had momentum and power behind them. In DmC, more like a paper plane gliding to the ground. I think they're supplementing the wrong aspects of DmC to DMC5, specially the way this realistic approach is having such ridiculously diverse effect. Did you see the Nobodies from the Gamespot gameplay? They're sooooo sloooowwwww. They just to jump around and move like a slow motion version of the original ones. It just isn't the same.


Well...
 
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Ronin

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But what about Vergil? Will Nero discover about his origins too once he finds him and figure how he was born?
 

V's patron

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But what about Vergil? Will Nero discover about his origins too once he finds him and figure how he was born?
We wont know until the game comes out. If anything a trailer on V might illuminate the connection he and Vergil could have, if any.
 

gmc

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i worry about the games sales as a result of this stupid move, this is not good
 

TWOxACROSS

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@TWOxACROSS
Watch your words. No one here is insulting you so no reason for you to insult others.
A thousand apologies for insulting a phantasmal 4chan entity.

Can't blame them on this. Last time they didn't they got DmC, and I'm not just talking about the game, I'm talking about the reaction, the sales, the very real fiasco that that crumbled into and it didn't even sell half as well as they hopped.

Either way, the issue is this over attachment to how things were. There is sticking to the roots and then there is stubbornly refusing to let go of the things you're used to. I miss the fix camera system from DMC1 but it doesn't work anymore, you can't really fight with it with the same efficiency as you can with a freestyle camera, so, guess what? It needs to be reworked. This is it, all over again. Dante has too many moves that should be simple that rely on too many inputs to be pulled off to be called 'simple' or 'efficient' and that might be because of an over attachment to that system. Be it from fans or they themselves.

I'm surprised at how often this thing came in handy. It just illustrates my point and, in this case, yours so efficiently.

I've had my ups and downs with DmC. I've talked about why I hate it and what I've come to appreciate about it over the years. I still don't like it as a game or as a DmC title, but I understand why they did some of what they did and wish they hadn't disperse with it. For example, I didn't like how gently Vergil's air kicked looked. It looked like a controlled landing. In DMC1 and 3 those were fast and booming, like fricken comets hurtling towards the Earth. They had momentum and power behind them. In DmC, more like a paper plane gliding to the ground. I think they're supplementing the wrong aspects of DmC to DMC5, specially the way this realistic approach is having such ridiculously diverse effect. Did you see the Nobodies from the Gamespot gameplay? They're sooooo sloooowwwww. They just to jump around and move like a slow motion version of the original ones. It just isn't the same. Speaking of:
Yeah, there was some things that could have have had better sounds in DmC. Well...most things could have had better sounds. About the only thing that sounded meaty was Eryx punches. Didn't help that they based the sounds off what you were hitting, and a lot of what you were hitting was gooey flesh. It's a really cool idea when you think about, to make hit sounds come from the enemy you hit, instead of everything sounding like singing metal, but like...the sound of singing metal is JUST. SO. GOOD.

One thing that I think about from that video from Magenta that you linked, there's a stark problem with how DMC4 handled the Style system and weapon loadout. In DMC4, you had less moves because you had access to Style anytime, and you had less weapons because you had access to all of them at once. In DMC3, having to make choices on what Style you use and what weapons you wanted with you meant we had so many choices, left you with so much more. That's what I fear DMC5 will end up with still, taking too much from DCM4 that hindered the experience, yet there's hope that we get to choose the size of our loadout, and the implication that there are more weapons we haven't seen. I can only hope that means more devil arms and firearms, and not just "Oh we didn't show you Kalina Ann yet~"

i worry about the games sales as a result of this stupid move, this is not good
I really don't think it will affect it in any way. People with **** and moan, and then move on. Everyone got up their own butts about Bravely Default having the option to refill a time stop feature with real money, and then the game came out and I don't think anyone ever used it, so no one cared. It's one of the most innocuous paid features you can ever have that affects so very little.
 

gmc

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i admit I over reacted somewhat, after reading the article apparently its just to buy red and blue orbs which dmc 4 SE did the same so its not pay to win
 

Foxtrot94

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i admit I over reacted somewhat, after reading the article apparently its just to buy red and blue orbs which dmc 4 SE did the same so its not pay to win
Although I wonder who would waste money on just that. Besides, it spoils the fun, part of which is to acquire orbs yourself through stylish gameplay.
 
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