General DMC5 Discussion *spoiler warnings*

Goldsickle

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Yeah it s an opinion
It's not.
A color-coded indicator works a whole lot better than an interface that requires a few extra steps of observation for confirmation.
Modern day traffic lights should have taught us that.
Same with how planes and ships have different colored lights on the left and right sides respectively, so you can instantly recognize what side you're facing from afar without the need to "look closer".
Color-coded lighting indicators is a part of human civilization and it's continuously implemented due to it's functionality.
Nothing "personal opinion" about that.

It's possible to beat or be good at a game with bad interface but it doesn't change that the interface are bad.

Since you had to constantly look at his interface and dodge especially in Hell and hell mode, you would have preferred a glowing on him that tell you how his familiar life is going?
The familiar's life bar is pretty crystal clear enough.
It's something you can confirm with a glance.
 

Vergil95

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It's not.
A color-coded indicator works a whole lot better than an interface that requires a few extra steps of observation for confirmation.
Modern day traffic lights should have taught us that.
Same with how planes and ships have different colored lights on the left and right sides respectively, so you can instantly recognize what side you're facing from afar without the need to "look closer".
Color-coded lighting indicators is a part of human civilization and it's continuously implemented due to it's functionality.
Nothing "personal opinion" about that.

It's possible to beat or be good at a game with bad interface but it doesn't change that the interface are bad.


The familiar's life bar is pretty crystal clear enough.
It's something you can confirm with a glance.
It s an opinion, you re is an opinion too, I m not against you opinion, I'm simply saying that for me the interface is fine I can play simply whit that, is crystal clear for me, for you is not, it's you problem and you opinion you cannot tell me that it s not opinion...
Sorry fo double post AgentRedgrave
 

Goldsickle

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you cannot tell me that it s not opinion...
I can because it's not.
You on the other hand, can't explain how a quick-and-easy color coded indicator isn't better than an interface that prompts you to second guess and observe closely for confirmation and requires a "work-around" where you need to constantly keep track of it in real-time, "using sound cues" that can be missed with all the action going on.

Our exchange has been one-sided, where you claim that what I say is just an opinion but can't actually explain how.
That's how I know it's not an opinion.
 

Vergil95

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I can because it's not.
You on the other hand, can't explain how a quick-and-easy color coded indicator isn't better than an interface that prompts you to second guess and observe closely for confirmation and requires a "work-around" where you need to constantly keep track of it in real-time, "using sound cues" that can be missed with all the action going on.

Our exchange has been one-sided, where you claim that what I say is just an opinion but can't actually explain how.
That's how I know it's not an opinion.
I sayd that form me is fine like this i have and indicator that tell me whic level the charge shot is and a sound and Nero harm, so for me it's fine like this, it's your opinion that is not fine, and it's OK but please stop tell me that it's not an opinion since I already tell you that for me work just fine... If for me it's fine can you pleas explain me why it shouldnt be fine? If I can say Wich lv l the charge shot is pretty easy can you please tell me why i should not recognize the lvl of the charge shot?
 

ef9dante_oSsshea

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It's all subjective preference lads , the thoughts have been shared so let's move on now lol

We can appreciate what goldsickle is saying as he has a point , and I am sure others feel the same

Let's not make it an I'm right and your not debate or til derail the whole thread

For everyone's unique Perspective we are all right for our own experience


Anyway back to the game , I finally got to see and play alongside my own ghost data

Lol it's obvious to me now v is my weakest playstyle ha ha
 

Vergil95

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It's all subjective preference lads , the thoughts have been shared so let's move on now lol

We can appreciate what goldsickle is saying as he has a point , and I am sure others feel the same

Let's not make it an I'm right and your not debate or til derail the whole thread

For everyone's unique Perspective we are all right for our own experience


Anyway back to the game , I finally got to see and play alongside my own ghost data

Lol it's obvious to me now v is my weakest playstyle ha ha
That s what I was trying to say from the beginning everyone has its opinion...
However let's move on...
 

Goldsickle

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it's not an opinion since I already tell you that for me work just fine...
And I already said that beating or being good at a game with a poor interface doesn't change that it still has a poor interface.
I could get Foxhound rank in MGS3 and that game has an awkward overhead camera and pressure-sensitive gun controls.
I still wouldn't say "it works just fine", because it doesn't, especially in this day and age, when there are objectively better camera and firing controls.

Every time I make a post about mechanic dysfunction, I tend to get people queuing up, taking turns to try and change my mind.
Feel free to keep this up but if you can't understand functionality and can only offer half-ass "work-around" for an obvious issue, don't expect a "good ending" where I say "oh wow, you're right, this totally solves the problem" or anything like that.
 

Goldsickle

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As I was saying, do not Devil Trigger Nero during Slow World's initial activation.
It cancels Slow World completely and the game doesn't care that you broke a Ragtime for it.
 

Vergil95

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And I already said that beating or being good at a game with a poor interface doesn't change that it still has a poor interface.
I could get Foxhound rank in MGS3 and that game has an awkward overhead camera and pressure-sensitive gun controls.
I still wouldn't say "it works just fine", because it doesn't, especially in this day and age, when there are objectively better camera and firing controls.

Every time I make a post about mechanic dysfunction, I tend to get people queuing up, taking turns to try and change my mind.
Feel free to keep this up but if you can't understand functionality and can only offer half-ass "work-around" for an obvious issue, don't expect a "good ending" where I say "oh wow, you're right, this totally solves the problem" or anything like that.
I m not expecting anything from you, I m not trying to change you mind, and I Will. Not discuss anymore whit a person who answer like a baby, since I sayd my opinion is that it's work just fine for you it s not, ok that s fine but not tell to me what I had to say, if I say that it's fine for me it is, if for you is not is not... I m not telling to you to change you opinion, I m just telling you to just respect my opinion, and my opinion is that it work just fine at least for me... For you is a poor interface for me is not, ok no problem but don't say to me that is poor interface and so I had to say the exact same thing if I do not think is poor...Adios kid... I m really tyred of the fact that I can't say what I think about the argument, I think that I can say that it work fine for me and it s not poor, try to respect my point as I respect yours
 
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DarkSlayer54

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To a degree I definitely think there's objectivity to this debate about charge shot indicators. I agree that having the indicators on or around the player model with color coding is quicker to notice then an indicator at the top corner of the screen. I think that statement would be fairly easy to prove in a study as well, particularly with eye tracking and measuring response times.

That being said... I also think there's a lot of subjectivity involved. You can form statements about certain features being more efficient, and prove them with studies... but does it improve the experience? I think that question is much harder to debate.

A good example is Balrog. I definitely believe that merging it's movesets into one mode would make for easier combos (I think most of us can agree on that), but I'm not sure how many of us would want that change. I talked to a friend who believed that the 2-mode design gave it a unique personality from all the other weapons, which improved the experience for them. It's a completely valid opinion to have, and it's difficult to make arguments when experiences are factored in.

Most importantly, there are no studies directly proving anything, so it's difficult to say anything is truly an objective fact. You can pull from related studies that support your argument, but... Ultimately it's still best to treat it as a theory, to create a more friendly and inviting atmosphere. I can get fairly adamant about my design theories as well, and I fail at this too on occasion. Food for thought though, I think forums are a great place to practice these communication skills.
 

BrawlMan

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Working my way through Hell and Hell. So far, it's not too hard. I died on missions 2 & 3, but got a no damage & no continue done on 1, 4, 5, & 6. Heaven and Hell I can finish anytime, so that can wait. For you guys or gals having trouble with V's missions; use the i-frame exploit when turning on devil trigger. All of your familiars are immune until the DT gauge runs out or you turn it off.
 

Vergil95

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To a degree I definitely think there's objectivity to this debate about charge shot indicators. I agree that having the indicators on or around the player model with color coding is quicker to notice then an indicator at the top corner of the screen. I think that statement would be fairly easy to prove in a study as well, particularly with eye tracking and measuring response times.

That being said... I also think there's a lot of subjectivity involved. You can form statements about certain features being more efficient, and prove them with studies... but does it improve the experience? I think that question is much harder to debate.

A good example is Balrog. I definitely believe that merging it's movesets into one mode would make for easier combos (I think most of us can agree on that), but I'm not sure how many of us would want that change. I talked to a friend who believed that the 2-mode design gave it a unique personality from all the other weapons, which improved the experience for them. It's a completely valid opinion to have, and it's difficult to make arguments when experiences are factored in.

Most importantly, there are no studies directly proving anything, so it's difficult to say anything is truly an objective fact. You can pull from related studies that support your argument, but... Ultimately it's still best to treat it as a theory, to create a more friendly and inviting atmosphere. I can get fairly adamant about my design theories as well, and I fail at this too on occasion. Food for thought though, I think forums are a great place to practice these communication skills.
For example I think that having two mode for Balrog improve the combat sistem for the weapon, I never used beowulf or gilgamesh that much but I always use balrog every time because I find the combat sistem pretty fun and easy to use whit two mode, and this is my opinion someone else can say doesn't like the two mode, so that why in life exist different perspective of things and one can agree or disagree but cannot say that it's an absolute thing...
 

Foxtrot94

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I don't know why people are so upset about Fury's. They make it sound like they're such an incredibly hard enemy to deal with when in reality they're so easy to parry (maybe V is the only one who's got trouble) and they got little health.

Their teleporting around is just a facade, they don't really attack you when they dart all over the place, and their actual attacks are heavily telegraphed during the start-up giving you plenty of time to input whatever move you fancy for an easy parry.
 

Vergil95

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I don't know why people are so upset about Fury's. They make it sound like they're such an incredibly hard enemy to deal with when in reality they're so easy to parry (maybe V is the only one who's got trouble) and they got little health.

Their teleporting around is just a facade, they don't really attack you when they dart all over the place, and their actual attacks are heavily telegraphed during the start-up giving you plenty of time to input whatever move you fancy for an easy parry.
I find them easy i just dodge their move then attack them, same whit v
 

ef9dante_oSsshea

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There are multiple moves all characters can do to parry the fury

Gerbera and punch line and charged helter skelter and knuckle can parry with Nero

Ice age , the spinning aerial with Cerberus , prop and shredder , balrog blow mode royal guard and the doughnuts with cavalier also parry with Dante , and other moves but they are complicated ha

Jumpin on nightmares back protects you or standing right by his legs , or use spinning saw blade like move for shadow for v
 

DarkSlayer54

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For example I think that having two mode for Balrog improve the combat sistem for the weapon, I never used beowulf or gilgamesh that much but I always use balrog every time because I find the combat sistem pretty fun and easy to use whit two mode, and this is my opinion someone else can say doesn't like the two mode, so that why in life exist different perspective of things and one can agree or disagree but cannot say that it's an absolute thing...
What aspect of the 2-mode system makes it easier to use?
 

ef9dante_oSsshea

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I'm guessin he means as it's less command inputs , u swap modes and get said modes moves

If balrog was one mode then you would need extra command inputs to fit all attacks in

I prefer two modes aswell , easy to swap between em too

But I can see how one mode incorporating everything would be good too
 

Sean Gow

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Yano what does my head in about Balrog?

The way the mid air combo for blow mode is mapped to the melee button, and the ‘return to ground’ attack is mapped to Swordmaster style button,

But in kick mode, the mid air combo is mapped to Swordmaster style button, and the ‘return to ground’ attack is mapped to the melee button.

Is that just me over thinking everything or has that annoyed anyone else before now?
 
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