DmC vs. Revengeance | 6 Years Later

BrawlMan

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You guys are misconstruing me. I like the older GoW games. I just don't think they're all that fun anymore.
Nothing wrong with that. I played the first two GoW games, and lost interest after that. I saw a play through of III (did not and still don't have a PS3). My problem with GoW games was that played too similar to each other. This especially true with III. With the exception of the gauntlets, every weapon was a blade on a chain. Of the classic GoWs, II is still the best to me. That has weapon variety. The side stories and Ascension weren't helping. Not to say Ascension is a bad game, but it was clear as a last hurrah and fatigue was way pass that point for most people.
 

DreadnoughtDT

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Fair point. I liked Chains of Olympus, 1 and Ghost of Sparta. 2 was a bit on the janky side for me and 3 and Ascension were kinda boring.
 

Goldsickle

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I see it like this, any comic character DC/Marvel can be relatable as long as they're written well.
It doesn't matter how well they're written, I can never "relate" with a child prodigy who discovered the cure for cancer when they're 10 years old or anything like that.
It can depend on the type of character.

I randomly found a 7-year old post from me where I said I didn't like the idea of holding triggers for extra moves, before DmC was released.
I guess I too forgot about holding R1 24/7.
 

BrawlMan

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It doesn't matter how well they're written, I can never "relate" with a child prodigy who discovered the cure for cancer when they're 10 years old or anything like that.
It can depend on the type of character.
And you are not wrong for that. It depends on the type of person and character, because everybody's different. Not to mention, not every character has to be "relatable" to be likeable or understanding.
 

Vergil95

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Well I like batman more than superman, but I like superman too

I think superman is written well but I like the darker tone of batman and can actually connect whit him better, but not because his human but because I like this type of character, Its a bit like Wolverine I can connect whit him better than other x men character

Thor is not human but I can connect whit him as well at least in the mcu
 
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Jack500

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And also when he said that what DmC does right in comparison to MGR (the actual combat mechanics) are done better in the older games anyway whereas MGR had nothing that came before to compare it to. So DmC got stuck in the shadow of its mechanically superior predecessors
The only one of DmC predecessors that can claim to be mechanically superior is DMC 4, and that's mostly in terms of obscure tech, that has no practical use outside of making combo videos.
 

Foxtrot94

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The only one of DmC predecessors that can claim to be mechanically superior is DMC 4
I mean yeah, on the whole, sure. Yet part of that is because the gameplay based itself on concepts about hitboxes and time windows/frame data DMC3 introduced and DmC trivialized, so for that reason in my mind I included 3 as well, hence the plural. But anyway, change that plural into a singular and the overall meaning of my post remains intact.

and that's mostly in terms of obscure tech, that has no practical use outside of making combo videos.
Practicality isn't necessarily an argument to invalidate depth. Just because a certain set of techs isn't "practical" doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And whether it exists or not is what defines the game's mechanics's depth. Especially in Devil May Cry, where pulling off flashy stuff is what most of the satisfaction comes from, as opposed to just beating the game.

But DMC4 is not just fancy, crazy tech. Even simpler stuff like using animations to your advantage add to the depth, and it can very well be practical. Like, look at this one.


Goes back to the hitbox manipulation thing I was talking about under my first quote. Guy didn't get hit cause Dante's ducking motion during Real Impact lowers his hitbox in a way that makes Credo miss his swing while Dante gets his move off, without having to interrupt it (which in the case of RI you can't anyway) to dodge roll or Trickster dash.

DmC, in contrast, decided to go with gargantuan hitboxes and hurtboxes for both enemies and Dante, which not only threw a good part of execution finesse away, but also streamlined a little too much the level of interaction with demons and bosses (the latter ones especially).
 
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Jack500

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DmC, in contrast, decided to go with gargantuan hitboxes and hurtboxes for both enemies and Dante, which not only threw a good part of execution finesse away, but also streamlined a little too much the level of interaction with demons and bosses
What's funny about this, is that DMC 5 does it as well. When it comes to execution DMC 5 is probably the most lenient in the series (Jump canceling doesn't even require you to touch the enemy) and yet that's being heralded as best game in the series.

And the whole execution = depth is BS. If you take away the canceling tech from DMC 4, and make every attack require frame perfect input, would that make the game deeper? No it would just make the game harder to play.

Depth comes from the number of things you can do with the mechanics, not from how hard they are to do

https://mobile.twitter.com/HuangRSfly/status/1043559128436637696
Goes back to the hitbox manipulation thing I was talking about under my first quote. Guy didn't get hit cause Dante's ducking motion during Real Impact lowers his hitbox in a way that makes Credo miss his swing while Dante gets his move off, without having to interrupt it
Has something like this ever been tried with the Eryx uppercut in DmC ? Because it works the same way as real impact-
 

Foxtrot94

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What's funny about this, is that DMC 5 does it as well.
Yes, Enemy Step and Royal block have been made easier. But two things.

1. I was talking about DmC in comparison to its predecessors, as my original post said.

2. Unlike DmC, that time frame increase wasn't across the board. For example, it is possible to dodge enemy attacks with Ignition activation's animation in Balrog Kick Mode, yet the timing is nowhere near as loose. Same with the Welter stance in Blow Mode, or the transition animations of Gear Wheel moves etc.

Depth comes from the number of things you can do with the mechanics, not from how hard they are to do
Even if I agreed there (which I only partly do), you really shouldn't bring up "number of things you can do" in a defense for DmC against DMC4, or even 5.

Has something like this ever been tried with the Eryx uppercut in DmC ?
Not to my knowledge but if you find a video or something, then link away.
 
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Jack500

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Unlike DmC, that time frame increase wasn't across the board
Like what. What are you even talking about here.

it is possible to dodge enemy attacks with Ignition activation's animations in Balrog Kick Mode, yet the timing is nowhere near as loose
So ? You can use attack animations dodge enemy attacks in all DMC games. And "nowhere near as loose" compared what

Even if I agreed there, you really shouldn't bring up "number of things you can do" in a defense for DmC against DMC4.
But we should, because DmC has as much tech as DMC 4, no matter how much you and the rest of the fanbase want to deny it

It has.

Jump canceling
star rave
Just frames
Parrying
weapon canceling
Weapon combination attack
Gun canceling
Gun charge stock
It even has it own version of guard flying and Distortion

The only tech DMC 4 has that DmC don't is guard cancel and inertia.
 
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Foxtrot94

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Like what. What are you even talking about here.
See the next sentence in the post.

And "nowhere near as loose" compared what
See the start of the post this time. Compared to ES and blocking.

I know I'm not a native English speaker but I believe my post was clear enough.

But we should, because DmC has as much tech as DMC 4, no matter how much you and the rest of the fanbase want to deny it
No Distortion, no Just Frames, no teleport cancel, no DT specific moves nor DT-altered moves properties, and the two you mentioned already.

The only tech DMC 4 has that DmC don't is guard cancel and inertia.
Which, even pretending they're the only two ones missing from DmC like you claimed, they're still two techs DMC4 has and DmC doesn't.
 

Jack500

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No Distortion, no Just Frames, no teleport cancel, no DT specific moves nor DT altered moves properties, and the two you mentioned already.
Lol, i can tell you just ignored the list i made, because i mentioned Just frames and Distortion (Admittedly i called them just charge and blur), also DmC Vergil can do teleport cancels too. And yes DmC dosen't have DT specific moves, i'll give you that one. But being DT moves makes them pretty limited.

Which, even pretending they're the only two ones missing from DmC like you claimed, they're still two techs DMC4 has and DmC doesn't.
Never said it had the same tech, only that it had just as much
 
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Foxtrot94

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Lol, i can tell you just ignored the list i made, because i mentioned Just frames and Distortion
No I didn't, you just used different terms for them which I actually had never heard before and just let fly as something you kinda made up. My bad.

also DmC Vergil can do teleport cancels too
That'd be relevant if we were talking about the two Vergils. I didn't mention any tech from DMC Vergil, or other additional, non main game characters to add to the pile.

And yes DmC dosen't have DT specific moves, i'll give you that one. But being DT moves makes them pretty limited.
Depends on how good you are at building DT fast. But still, it's something that's there.
 

BrawlMan

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I'm surprised people don't compare DmC with Lords of Shadows more often.

That makes sense as Lords of Shadow takes more God of War than DMC. Just replace Greek with Christian mythology and European folklore. LoS does take some stuff from DMC, but that game came out in 2010 (PC release in 2013). Granted, there are similar comparison to production and expanding towards a more Western market. The only difference being LoS respected its source material while still doing its own thing without the total PR disaster. While there was some backlash from hardcore Vania fans, the first LoS did great among consumers and critics despite whatever flaws the original had. What made it easier for LoS is that Castlevania as a whole has always had a different protagonist for each game. That made the transition in to the reboot much easier.
 

Goldsickle

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I'm surprised people don't compare DmC with Lords of Shadows more often.
Because DmC follows the basic DMC formula of not having Quick Time Events or button mashing sequences shoehorned into the boss battles.

Lords Of Shadow is a "typical hack and slash game".
Smack the boss until they're half dead and there's a Quick Time Event sequence to "finish off" the boss.
Or some button mashing/QTE sequence to destroy parts, remove armor, etc.
 

berto

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We get it dude, you don't like the new one, but that does not mean you get to insult others for enjoying the game.
If I remember correctly he didn't want to make a GoW video but was swarmed with requests and demands to do it. Even after the video he had to do a follow up because people just wouldn't let it go.
 

BrawlMan

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If I remember correctly he didn't want to make a GoW video but was swarmed with requests and demands to do it. Even after the video he had to do a follow up because people just wouldn't let it go.
The moment where he made the God of war 4 rant when the trailer first premiered in 2016, he was going to do a review regardless of request or not. The response video to his review was damage control. When you go around saying that critics, and fans of the game were duped in to liking a game, you know you have issues, and come off as a fan hater.

Now don't get me wrong, God of war is not some flawlees masterpiece and have some issues that can be ironed out, but in today's age where a lot of games try to screw you over with cutting content, overpriced microtransactions, and loot boxes. It's just good to see a game that is a game with no strings attached. And as I mentioned in a different Post in a few weeks back: I originally was on the God of war 4 hate train. GB's rant being the start of it. but after a year reflecting, I realize I'd be no different than those who hate on and games I enjoy in the gaming press or "professional" reviewers. So I decided to suck it up and give the game to chance. Like I said it's a good game but there are flaws that definitely be ironed out in the sequel. The differences is regardless if I liked it or not, I won't go out of my way to insult people for enjoying something they love or don't love. my main problem with GB is that he always goes through the cycle of "oh, I hate this game for stupid reasons" or "if this game is successful it'll ruin the genre other action games like DMC". My personal favorite, "Silent Hills would have not been as great as everybody thinks or imagined it would be". I'm not a hardcore Silent Hill fan and even I thought that statement was pretty up his own ass.

It's petty ignorance at best, and arrogant fear-mongering at worse when a person makes statements like that. He talks like he knows what's best for everyone. Tough luck you whiny bitch, the new God of war is a success and there's really not much you can do about it.
 
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Vergil95

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The new God of War was probably one of the best game in years, I buyed it day one and didn't regret it...

Don't understand why people hate something when they never try it

The firsts trailer were good, the grapich was good, everything was good, so I didn't really see nothing to blame about it
 

V's patron

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I'm curious how Revengeance would have fared against 5. I would have to put my anti nero feelings aside and concede 5 is the better entry gameplaywise. Story is another matter entirely.

Speaking of 4, I tend to see it and the reboot as two sides of the same coin. I guess it depends on which set of cliches you like more : shonen anime or Hollywood? ;).
 
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