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DmC vs. Revengeance | 6 Years Later

BrawlMan

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Welp, he finally made a video retrospective about it. Gaming Brit actually sounds mature and not a stuck up, contrarian dick for once. Though might change once we see his thoughts on God of War Ascension and make constant unfair comparisons to God of War 4. We get it dude, you don't like the new one, but that does not mean you get to insult others for enjoying the game. I just hope he does not go there, if he does, I might consider unsubscribing from him.

I still say Rising is better than DmC, despite the weapons switching hick ups (due to hardware limitations) and bare bones level designs. Rising has better bosses, hype moments, and I just love the hell out of the parry/zandatsu mechanic. I am surprised he did not mention either games' dlc content. I think Rising faired better in this department to. DmC advatange is unique levels and bettter weapon switching, yet Rising has more aggressive enemies.
 

Vergil95

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I think they are two completely different type of game, they have different gameplay mechanic, I can't really compare them

I like both of them, they have unique gameplay style that I didn't find in some modern game
 

BrawlMan

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I think they are two completely different type of game, they have different gameplay mechanic, I can't really compare them

I like both of them, they have unique gameplay style that I didn't find in some modern game

I understand. I do have a bit more of an appreciation for DmC then I did back in 2013, but that was due to the DE version fixing a majority of the problems I had with the vanilla version. Like I said before on another topic, DmC can't hold a candle to DMC3, 4, and now 5, but kills most western developed hack n slash games and some Japanese games.
 

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Honestly, I haven't played either of them since they came out. Back then I thought MGR was better than DmC both story and gameplay wise. I'd say DmC is a 7 out of 10 while MGR is an 8 out of 10.

Granted I think MGR has a significant advantage storywise over DmC and I'd argue DMC as well. Metal Gear just has a stronger handle on its characters/themes and more consistently good while DMC is more up and down in quality.

The MGR Bosses made a stronger impression and more rewarding when you finally beat them.
 

Innsmouth

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I'll replayed Reveangence more than once after paltinum trophy. I haven't played DmC not even once after I got plat.
 

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At its core, Metal Gear Rising is a generic hack and slash game.

Weak attack, strong attack? Check.

"Weak attack, strong attack" is used as a basis for dial-up combos? Check.

Context-sensitive prompts for special moves or executions? Check.

"Press X to not die" sequence? F***ing. Check.

It even falls behind due to not implementing real-time weapon change.
The weapon change itself is awkward, because you have to stand perfectly still to do it.
If you're running or jumping, the weapon change menu won't open.

The game's saving grace is due to its connection to the Metal Gear Saga.
That's the only reason I ever gave a f*** and two s***s about this game.

Another saving grace is the innovative bisection mechanic, which truly sets it apart.
However, because the whole game revolves around having this mechanic, it gets shoehorned here and there.
And due to the game being overly focused on this mechanic, this becomes stuck, even if you're using different characters.

One of the things I like about the DMC series is how the game is so flexible that you can have totally different kinds of characters, like how Nero focuses on Exceed + grapples, Dante focuses on utilizing a huge arsenal and V manipulates demon pets.

Gameplay-wise, another saving grace for Metal Gear Rising is its non-stinginess of allowing you to restart from a checkpoint with absolutely no repercussions.
This makes getting No Damage & S ranks a whole lot more bearable.
Such feature should be standard for every game in existence, because not all of us are youngsters who can play 12 hours per day.


The problem I have about DmC is mostly the story.
I mentioned before that DmC felt like a "Western live-action movie adaptation" of DMC, except that it's a video game.
I have always preferred the anime-esque, "JRPG" aesthetics and style of the previous games.
Some of the enemies looked like they belong in a Silent Hill game.

It's been mentioned before but the whole "half-angel, half demon" thing doesn't appeal to me much.
Dante is relatable because of his half-human lineage.
So when you go for half-angel, half demon, Dante feels more like an outsider.
Maybe a sequel would explain that either Sparda, Eva or both have half-human blood but we'll never know.

Mechanically, DmC is totally a step in the right direction.
Something always felt off about the lock-on-dependent scheme of previous games but it was only after playing DmC a bunch of times that I realized the older scheme was dysfunctional and obsolete.

There was a lot of b****ing about the need to hold down triggers for Angel/Demon moves but haven't we all been holding down R1 for a long time to keep enemies locked on?
I initially thought that it'd be better for it to be on toggle but inconvenient as it sounds, holding down the triggers for different moves is best for muscle memory.
The revamped control scheme isn't perfect but it conforms to muscle memory more and all it needed was more refining.
I don't care if there's going to be a sequel to DMC or DmC but I really want Capcom to go with DmC's control scheme from the ground up.


I'm reminded about how DmC got criticized for having a "forward, forward" input for signature moves and haters would imply that this is a sign of bad game design and the game should be condemned for it.

And then Metal Gear Rising did the exact same thing.
Most of the DmC haters are usually Platinum Games fans, so the whole thing is swept under a carpet.

After that, there were criticisms about how DmC's Devil Trigger command was to have players press L3+R3.
Again, this is criticized as being a bad decision or bad design.

And then Metal Gear Rising did the exact same thing for "Ripper mode".
Once again, the whole thing was swept under the carpet next to the "forward, forward" criticism.
 

Foxtrot94

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The guy kinda hit the nail on the head when he said the DmC got crapped on way more than MGR because it was an unwanted game that threatened to replace the originals whereas MGR never had such a role in its own franchise.

And also when he said that what DmC does right in comparison to MGR (the actual combat mechanics) are done better in the older games anyway whereas MGR had nothing that came before to compare it to. So DmC got stuck in the shadow of its mechanically superior predecessors and MGR got to enjoy its spotlight more because it was more of its own thing.
Which goes to prove the old argument that if DmC didn't carry the Devil May Cry name it would be much better received.

That said, I have problems with both titles that prevent me from enjoying multiple runs. None of them gives me that motivation to replay them over and over for experimentation and mastery of the systems, cause both of them lack the necessary depth for me to, despite DmC having an edge over MGR in that department.
 

Vergil95

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A Ninja Theory game vs a P* game...

We should just agree that they're equally mediocre.
I don't think rising and dmc are mediocre game but just different tipe of hack and slash, metal gear rising doesn't focus on combo or mastery of them like the original dmc title, its a completely different tipe of gameplay, I like the zan Datzu, the boss and many other gameplay element, the graphic is also superb, the story is good and the gameplay itself is unique no other game has it

Dmc is also a pretty good game but it's different from dmc 3 and 4, it focus more on weapon switch and I really like How you can push enemy to you or go to them whit easy, also there are many combo that you can make, but it has not the precision in creating them like previous dmc title had, but I think it's gameplay i also very uniaue

What I want to say Is that they are completely different hack and slash game and they shouldn t be compared to the orginal dmc, just like I can't compare God of War whit dmc, they are all unique, and this doesn't make them mediocre or below the original dmc game

Bayonetta is the only game that has dmc stile of gameplay and I think the only game that I played that can be compered to dmc
 

BrawlMan

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A Ninja Theory game vs a P* game...

We should just agree that they're equally mediocre.

AHAHAHAHAHAH..... (demonic voice) NO IT'S NOOOOOTTTT!!!

Rising has flaws, but it and most of P*'s output are not mediocre. DmC (vanilla) I consider slightly above mediocre, while DE is decently good in gameplay.

You want mediocre: Ninja Gaiden 3, Ninja Blade, Blades of Time, Lollipop Chainsaw (I like the main character), Bikini Zombie Slayers, and N3 I & II.

@Goldsickle Really? I've seen people complain about Rising's l3+r3 ripper mode. Even Gbrit complained about it. Were you on the GameFaqs forum when people didn't complain about it, but complained about DmC's? Toggle f+f I did dislike and was one of the reasons why I refused to buy the vanilla version. I admit that. If there is another advantage DmC (DMC 3, 4, & 5 too) has over Rising is customizable controls. You weren't stuck permanently with the control set up, and could change your DT however you wanted.

@Foxtrot94 I've had multiple runs in both games now; more so with Rising. The only reason I have lots of hours in DmC was the DE's Gods Must Die Mode, and Must Style Mode. Those actually had me coming back for more. I surprised myself by clocking in more hours than DMC4/SE.

@V's patron Agreed.
 
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Goldsickle

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Really? I've seen people complain about Rising's l3+r3 ripper mode. Even Gbrit complained about it. Were you on the GameFaqs forum when people didn't complain about it, but complained about DmC's?
My point is that DmC haters who just happen to be Platinum fans stopped bringing up those features as "examples of bad game design" or "horrible design decisions", because it creates a "glass house" effect.
DmC fans can respond with "hey, these features are also in a game you like!".

If there is another advantage DmC (DMC 3, 4, & 5 too) has over Rising is customizable controls. You weren't stuck permanently with the control set up, and could change your DT however you wanted.
Because companies like Platinum games lean towards Quick Time Events and context-sensitive prompts, where during specific sequences or under certain conditions, you get on-screen commands like "Y+B" or prompts that require you to mash the X button.

Customizing your controls messes with these, so you might be asked to press button sequences that's impossible without some finger yoga, like Triangle + Cross.

The Devil May Cry series continues its tradition of having all commands mapped on the controls, which you can do almost anytime and does not shoehorn Quick Time Events into the gameplay.
This is why the series can maintain fully customizable controls.
 

DarkSlayerVergil

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At its core, Metal Gear Rising is a generic hack and slash game.

Weak attack, strong attack? Check.

"Weak attack, strong attack" is used as a basis for dial-up combos? Check.

Context-sensitive prompts for special moves or executions? Check.

"Press X to not die" sequence? F***ing. Check.

It even falls behind due to not implementing real-time weapon change.
The weapon change itself is awkward, because you have to stand perfectly still to do it.
If you're running or jumping, the weapon change menu won't open.

The game's saving grace is due to its connection to the Metal Gear Saga.
That's the only reason I ever gave a f*** and two s***s about this game.

Another saving grace is the innovative bisection mechanic, which truly sets it apart.
However, because the whole game revolves around having this mechanic, it gets shoehorned here and there.
And due to the game being overly focused on this mechanic, this becomes stuck, even if you're using different characters.

One of the things I like about the DMC series is how the game is so flexible that you can have totally different kinds of characters, like how Nero focuses on Exceed + grapples, Dante focuses on utilizing a huge arsenal and V manipulates demon pets.

Gameplay-wise, another saving grace for Metal Gear Rising is its non-stinginess of allowing you to restart from a checkpoint with absolutely no repercussions.
This makes getting No Damage & S ranks a whole lot more bearable.
Such feature should be standard for every game in existence, because not all of us are youngsters who can play 12 hours per day.


The problem I have about DmC is mostly the story.
I mentioned before that DmC felt like a "Western live-action movie adaptation" of DMC, except that it's a video game.
I have always preferred the anime-esque, "JRPG" aesthetics and style of the previous games.
Some of the enemies looked like they belong in a Silent Hill game.

It's been mentioned before but the whole "half-angel, half demon" thing doesn't appeal to me much.
Dante is relatable because of his half-human lineage.
So when you go for half-angel, half demon, Dante feels more like an outsider.
Maybe a sequel would explain that either Sparda, Eva or both have half-human blood but we'll never know.

Mechanically, DmC is totally a step in the right direction.
Something always felt off about the lock-on-dependent scheme of previous games but it was only after playing DmC a bunch of times that I realized the older scheme was dysfunctional and obsolete.

There was a lot of b****ing about the need to hold down triggers for Angel/Demon moves but haven't we all been holding down R1 for a long time to keep enemies locked on?
I initially thought that it'd be better for it to be on toggle but inconvenient as it sounds, holding down the triggers for different moves is best for muscle memory.
The revamped control scheme isn't perfect but it conforms to muscle memory more and all it needed was more refining.
I don't care if there's going to be a sequel to DMC or DmC but I really want Capcom to go with DmC's control scheme from the ground up.


I'm reminded about how DmC got criticized for having a "forward, forward" input for signature moves and haters would imply that this is a sign of bad game design and the game should be condemned for it.

And then Metal Gear Rising did the exact same thing.
Most of the DmC haters are usually Platinum Games fans, so the whole thing is swept under a carpet.

After that, there were criticisms about how DmC's Devil Trigger command was to have players press L3+R3.
Again, this is criticized as being a bad decision or bad design.

And then Metal Gear Rising did the exact same thing for "Ripper mode".
Once again, the whole thing was swept under the carpet next to the "forward, forward" criticism.
I disagree on the idea that in order for a character to relatable they have to be human. Reminds me of how people believe Batman to be more relatable than Superman all because Bats is human even though realistically speaking Bruce Wayne should be the last person brought up when discussing relatablillity.
 

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I guess a lesson Capcom could learn here is that a spinoff set in the same universe but a different lead might be a better way to go than a reboot.

#silverlinings
 

DreadnoughtDT

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Wow, for once Gaming Brit didn't sound like a complete jackass.

Although yes, I agree that if he ****s on the GoW4 fans AGAIN, I am going to unsub. Just because I like hack 'n slash games doesn't mean I can't also like a character-driven story that is leagues better than its mediocre predecessors? Jesus dude, get off your high horse...
 

DarkSlayerVergil

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Wow, for once Gaming Brit didn't sound like a complete jackass.

Although yes, I agree that if he ****s on the GoW4 fans AGAIN, I am going to unsub. Just because I like hack 'n slash games doesn't mean I can't also like a character-driven story that is leagues better than its mediocre predecessors? Jesus dude, get off your high horse...
The original GoW games are far from mediocre honestly. Mediocrity is Dantes Inferno.
 

Vergil95

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God of War 1 and 2 were master piece they were not mediocre, just because it's called hack and slash doesn't mean that it had to be like dmc whit combos ecc to be a good game
 

Goldsickle

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I disagree on the idea that in order for a character to relatable they have to be human. Reminds me of how people believe Batman to be more relatable than Superman all because Bats is human even though realistically speaking Bruce Wayne should be the last person brought up when discussing relatablillity.
Batman being vengeful and antisocial makes him more relatable than Superman for me.
 

DreadnoughtDT

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You guys are misconstruing me. I like the older GoW games. I just don't think they're all that fun anymore.
 
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